Brumbies v Waratahs, round 12, Friday 1 May

[Viking]

Moving Lilo to 10 strengthens the Ponies IMO, and Moggie at 15 doesn't weaken them. But Coleman at 12? MMmmm...

Coleman at 12 shouldn't be a problem he's experienced in that position. So defensive positioning should be okay, only thing is he is a lightweight - but thats okay cos his opposite number is Beale.

 

[Brumby Runner]

According to Rugby HQ tonight, the sign actually reads " In case of Emergency, Don't break glass".

 

[fatprop]

Coleman at 12 shouldn't be a problem he's experienced in that position. So defensive positioning should be okay, only thing is he is a lightweight - but thats okay cos his opposite number is Beale.

Beale rarely lines up as 12

 

[Merrow]

Amusing article from Clyde
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/05/01/waratah-week-brings-out-the-irrational-hatred-in-all-of-us/

Blood boiling
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/05/01/spiro-brumbies-waratahs-battle-illegal-rolling-maul/
Who lets this guy publish stuff?
Should have known better than to click on it.

 

[Grant NZ]

Blood boiling
http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/05/01/spiro-brumbies-waratahs-battle-illegal-rolling-maul/
Who lets this guy publish stuff?
Should have known better than to click on it.

Zavos is a poor writer, and there's a fair bit of sanctimony about many of his 'articles', but the central point of that article is pretty fair. The attacking team is being allowed to get away with a lot in mauls and there were multiple penalties that could have been awarded against the Brumbies in all 3 mauls.

The one big thing that stood out to me is his claim that the mauls were illegally set up. Other than the first one, they weren't. The illegalities happened afterward.

 

[Pedrolicus]

I like the insinuation that the brumbies maul is so dangerous because Robbie Coleman is allowed to bind in front of the ball carrier.

 

[fatprop]

I like the insinuation that the brumbies maul is so dangerous because Robbie Coleman is allowed to bind in front of the ball carrier.

As long as you think it will be fine for Beale to block a defender in general play as well ........................

 

[Grant NZ]

I like the insinuation that the brumbies maul is so dangerous because Robbie Coleman is allowed to bind in front of the ball carrier.

I thought that the 3 backs made a bit of a difference in the 2nd maul, not really in the 3rd. The worst offence for me was the set up on the 1st maul. Fardy throws it down to Pocock while still in the air, which means that he and his support players are obstructing. That basically removes any chance the Highlanders had to legally stop the maul before it begins.

The men in front and meerkatting* by Pocock are largely a non issue as far as how effective the maul was, but that obstruction on the set up is a bigger deal IMO. It was only on the first one, the other 2 set ups were fine, which suggests it might have been a mistake rather than coached illegality.

*though the way he slides back when Moore enters the maul is kind of taking the piss. It'd be just as easy to transfer the ball to Moore if they want the ball at the back.

 

[cyclopath]

The issue of mauls is a fair one to raise, but not to make it a Brumbies-centric whinge. Everyone is doing it, and it's not the set up mostly, it's players tacking on in front or the ball holder detaching and moving further back. These things should be policed to at least make mauls semi-contestable. The Brumbies are just doing what other teams do but more effectively in the most part.

 

[Grant NZ]

The issue of mauls is a fair one to raise, but not to make it a Brumbies-centric whinge. Everyone is doing it, and it's not the set up mostly, it's players tacking on in front or the ball holder detaching and moving further back. These things should be policed to at least make mauls semi-contestable. The Brumbies are just doing what other teams do but more effectively in the most part.

To be fair to Zavos, he does mention the Tahs and Highlanders scored from illegal mauls.

But it's hardly surprising he's focussed on the Brumbies, it was a very high profile demonstration of the maul's effectiveness - essentially deciding the result of a (semi) top of the table match.

 

[Merrow]

What annoyed me the most is that he wrote to Lyndon Bray. For somebody that lambasted Pocock for dobbing on Pots, he's certainly done a 180 here.

 

[Gnostic]

The issue of mauls is a fair one to raise, but not to make it a Brumbies-centric whinge. Everyone is doing it, and it's not the set up mostly, it's players tacking on in front or the ball holder detaching and moving further back. These things should be policed to at least make mauls semi-contestable. The Brumbies are just doing what other teams do but more effectively in the most part.

Zarvos is a long way behind the curve, the subject has been discussed on the forum here since last year.

 

[SammyP]

What annoyed me the most is that he wrote to Lyndon Bray. For somebody that lambasted Pocock for dobbing on Pots, he's certainly done a 180 here.

And not a single mention of a team getting away diving on the ruck from the side and the lack of arms in tackles from players repeatedly! If he's so keen to ensure all the laws are followed to the letter I'd have thought those were two pretty important ones too.

Oh wait ... which team does that ...

 

[Gnostic]

Oh wait . which team does that .

Oh wait... all of them?

I was happy to see Latu get picked up for the grass cutter "shoulder charge" at the legs, favoured by TPN and S. Fainga'a, even if the example to ref chose was totally wrong, as there were actually arms used in the tackle penalised.

I would like to see the attacking mauling side policed to ensure that players not only bind behind the ball carrier, but also players that are coming through the maul cannot be attacked above the shoulders to hold them back. Mowen was regularly held in a head lock when he was playing in Oz as he was the best counter maul player we had in ages and regularly made it through the ruck.

 

[Viking]

Beale rarely lines up as 12

I disagree. He's at 12 a lot on attack, mainly moves away on defence. Anyways Foley, Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), aren't exactly the Nonu/SBW type ball runners, Coleman will be fine, He puts his body on the line and makes tackles - he'll get run over by some forwards and the hard-running backs but he'll at least give it a go.

 

[SammyP]

Ok. To be honest I hate this match up, always have and I'm pretty sure I've said it here multiple times before, the injuries that come out of it usually screw us over for the season while the Tahs usually get out of it clean (not always, but the count is very one sided).

But what's bugging me about this game tonight is that its being claimed as the game that will decide the top of the conference, therefore which Oz team will make the finals. Sadly I know this is probably true. The fact that the country is resigned to having only 1 team in the top 6 in a world cup year is just disappointing.

I hope the Brums can get up for this one, but I'm not confident. I imagine it will be a pretty spiteful game, as most btwn these 2 have been lately, which will lead to childish taunts and gloating from, the fans of whichever team wins.

I also fear that poor reffing will be a deciding factor. We already know the ref will be watching the Brumbies maul very closely, well I hope he has also bee instructed to watch the other team just as closely. I guess we will see tonight.

Ok, dumb rant over. I'm going to work.

 

[SammyP]

Oh wait. all of them?

I was happy to see Latu get picked up for the grass cutter "shoulder charge" at the legs, favoured by TPN and S. Fainga'a, even if the example to ref chose was totally wrong, as there were actually arms used in the tackle penalised.

I would like to see the attacking mauling side policed to ensure that players not only bind behind the ball carrier, but also players that are coming through the maul cannot be attacked above the shoulders to hold them back. Mowen was regularly held in a head lock when he was playing in Oz as he was the best counter maul player we had in ages and regularly made it through the ruck.

Look, I agree, it was a bit of a dig, nothing meant to be insulting. I know a lot of teams do it, Nonu obviously, plus other players from Oz. I also hate the grass cutter tackle, so bloody dangerous. And yes, I do want to see the maul policed correctly, I just don't like the idea that a "journo" can just email Lyndon Bray pointing out the misgivings on one team the way he did (yes, I know he mentioned a cpl of others, but that was hardly the focus).

Head locks should count as head high tackles in my book and be a penalty.

 

[Brumby Runner]

If the mauls are officiated better because of last week's experiences, then so much the better. I sincerely hope though that we are not setting ourselves up to be 'mauled' by the NH sides in the RWC if it turns out to be a SH crackdown only.

It will also be interesting to see if the defending side is equally monitored. Most defenders coming through the maul are not 'legally' bound but are grasping with both hands at the ball carrier or other attacking players in the way of the ball carrier. Add to that, they often attack the head of an attacking player and also often go off their feet by launching themselves upwards in an effort to get past the first line of the attacking side.

IMO there is really no way a maul can be continued without a number of illegalities occurring on both sides.

But while they are condoned by World Rugby, we ought not to be cutting off our noses to spite our faces.

 

[Braveheart81]

Ok. To be honest I hate this match up, always have and I'm pretty sure I've said it here multiple times before, the injuries that come out of it usually screw us over for the season while the Tahs usually get out of it clean (not always, but the count is very one sided).

But what's bugging me about this game tonight is that its being claimed as the game that will decide the top of the conference, therefore which Oz team will make the finals. Sadly I know this is probably true. The fact that the country is resigned to having only 1 team in the top 6 in a world cup year is just disappointing.

I agree that the injuries have gone more heavily against the Brumbies but it hasn't exactly been one sided.

2012 - Leali'ifano broke his leg
2013 - Pocock did his knee in the first game and TPN broke his arm in the second.
2014 - Henry Speight broke his jaw in the first game in Canberra. Dave Dennis did his knee in the second game in Sydney. Henry Speight did his hamstring in the semi-final but that only affected the Wallabies.

I agree that this game will go a long way towards deciding the conference winner. Waratahs win and they're absolutely in the box seat with a game in hand and an easier draw. Brumbies win and they're two games clear although they've played an extra game.

I think the second Aussie team will be right around the mark for the finals. Things have really boiled down to the top 7 teams being most likely to make it and there's no reason why the second Aussie team won't end up 5th or 6th.

 

[fatprop]

I disagree. He's at 12 a lot on attack, mainly moves away on defence. Anyways Foley, Beale, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), aren't exactly the Nonu/SBW type ball runners, Coleman will be fine, He puts his body on the line and makes tackles - he'll get run over by some forwards and the hard-running backs but he'll at least give it a go.

I expect Coleman will be tackling Skelton, Pots, Nau or Folau whenever possible and being tackled by Horne or AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)

It is really rare for the 12 to run at the opposing 12 these days, and Beale plays as the 10 quite often as Foley and he interchange