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brokendown
Bill McLean (32)
It was very difficult to work out who was who,there was no programne listing players numbers,& in fact many Brumby players had no numbers at all
The game was a very scrappy affair(aren't all trial matches?)
The Brumby forward pack were playing very well as a unit,very organised in what they were doing.whereas the Force appeared to be playing without a plan at all(which subsequently turned out to be close to the truth)
There was certainly skullduggery going on in the scrums.In the first engagement the ref was sucked right in by the Brumbies,who received a free kick for a the force going in too early,when in fact the Brubies barely engaged,allowing them to get shunted back a considerable distance--nice little tactic if you can get away with it
What concerned me most during the game was the high incidence of missed tackles by the Force inside backs.Im sure this was not part of their(non)plan
Very difficult to judge where both teams are at the moment-the high humidity & damp ground made handling for both sides difficult,with neither backline functioning with full efficiency
Anyway,the temperature was warm,the beer cold & the half dozen or so of we Force supporters who travelled from Perth had a good time
The game was a very scrappy affair(aren't all trial matches?)
The Brumby forward pack were playing very well as a unit,very organised in what they were doing.whereas the Force appeared to be playing without a plan at all(which subsequently turned out to be close to the truth)
There was certainly skullduggery going on in the scrums.In the first engagement the ref was sucked right in by the Brumbies,who received a free kick for a the force going in too early,when in fact the Brubies barely engaged,allowing them to get shunted back a considerable distance--nice little tactic if you can get away with it
What concerned me most during the game was the high incidence of missed tackles by the Force inside backs.Im sure this was not part of their(non)plan
Very difficult to judge where both teams are at the moment-the high humidity & damp ground made handling for both sides difficult,with neither backline functioning with full efficiency
Anyway,the temperature was warm,the beer cold & the half dozen or so of we Force supporters who travelled from Perth had a good time
GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
Thank God! Someone who was actually there speaking sense!
Shiggins
Simon Poidevin (60)
Yeah thanks brokendown. Good to here something from the game from
Someone who was there.
Http://www.youtube.com/shiggins316
Someone who was there.
Http://www.youtube.com/shiggins316
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
GaffaCHinO
Peter Sullivan (51)
i think what he was saying is that it was not an early engagment from the force but that the Brumbies held there hight back making look as though the force went early. Old School tactic from smaller front rows. Smart idea but it would have been picked up by a more senior Ref for what it was.
Ash
Michael Lynagh (62)
For everyone:
To ignore someone, click on that user's profile, then find the "ignore" option.
Thishasbeenacommunityserviceannouncement.
"Referees have been asked to scrutinise the Brumbies' front-row tactics heading into the Super Rugby season after their 25-0 trial win over the Western Force in Darwin on Saturday.
"The engagement is always a contentious area and former Springboks World Cup winning coach Jake White and his forwards coach Laurie Fisher dipped deep into their box of tricks to help their front three get the upper hand in the set piece.
"They held a higher crouch position, dropped late and made their own call as the referee called for the engagement, causing confusion and frustration in the Force front row.
"While Force coach Richard Graham did not want to comment about the way the Brumbies packed, it is understood officials at SANZAR - Super Rugby's governing body - received a complaint about the tactics."
The complaint seems to focus on three aspects of the Brumbies' method of engagement:
"They held a higher crouch position". Would that be like the green team in the image below taken from the official IRB Laws of the Game website?
They "dropped late and made their own call as the referee called for the engagement". Neither procedure seems to transgress the relevant sections of the Laws:
"20.1 (f) Front rows coming together. First, the referee marks with a foot the place where the scrum is to be formed. Before the two front rows come together they must be standing not more than an arm’s length apart. The ball is in the scrum half’s hands, ready to be thrown in. The front rows must crouch so that when they meet, each player’s head and shoulders are no lower than the hips. The front rows must interlock so that no player’s head is next to the head of a team-mate.
(g) The referee will call \“crouch\” then \“touch\”. The front rows crouch and using their outside arm each prop touches the point of the opposing prop's outside shoulder. The props then withdraw their arms. The referee will then call \“pause\”. Following a pause the referee will then call \“engage\”. The front rows may then engage. The \“engage\” call is not a command but an indication that the front rows may come together when ready."
Reflecting the history of front row etiquette there is no requirement for front rowers to remain silent while scrummaging, and there is also no mention of "dropping".
Bearing in mind the old adage of being careful what you wish for, SANZAR's perusal of the game tape might have an unintended outcome. My mail is that a front rower went down as if pole axed as a scrum broke up. Of course with the game being played in the tropics it might have just been heat stroke.
When a scrum engages from a higher position they drive down at the other scrum. This makes the scrum more unstable with more collapses. It is a version of what the ABs did for a few years
mudskipper
Colin Windon (37)
I don’t believe it’s neither illegal nor rude not to bow to the opposition front row before packing down... I don’t know what all the fuss is about… 
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
As if the power hit was not an abomination in itself, the preparation for it has become a malignity in its own right. The Crusaders and All Blacks used to take ages to crouch. Thereby they took control of the pre-engage and forced their opponents to conform to their movements.
The trouble is that: if the engage call by the referee is not a command, according to the laws, just a prissy "indication that the front rows may come together when ready," then there is Buckley's chance for him to coordinate the crouch, touch and pause.
The IRB have done some good work over the decades I have been watching them, but they have missed a few tricks. One was when there was a realisation that the power hit was a primary cause for scrums collapsing.
This was not a surprise because the forces were not symmetrical horizontally - you couldn't have 6 blokes pushing head to head to make it truly square. Forces weren't symmetrical vertically either - props were different heights and would not have their feet back the same distance anyway. Front rowers popped up but most often they hinged down. This happened in the olden times before the hit too, but not nearly as much.
But instead of eliminating the power hit, which, without symmetry, was fatal to stability, they tried to manage it with referees chanting a timing mantra which was not even enforceable. So long as pre-engagement rituals were within the bounds of not wasting time, the refs could not ping variations from one team to another.
mudskipper - there can be a fuss made about it but from what I am reading, the fuss should be directed at the IRB, not the Brumbies - nor the referee either.
.
The trouble is that: if the engage call by the referee is not a command, according to the laws, just a prissy "indication that the front rows may come together when ready," then there is Buckley's chance for him to coordinate the crouch, touch and pause.
The IRB have done some good work over the decades I have been watching them, but they have missed a few tricks. One was when there was a realisation that the power hit was a primary cause for scrums collapsing.
This was not a surprise because the forces were not symmetrical horizontally - you couldn't have 6 blokes pushing head to head to make it truly square. Forces weren't symmetrical vertically either - props were different heights and would not have their feet back the same distance anyway. Front rowers popped up but most often they hinged down. This happened in the olden times before the hit too, but not nearly as much.
But instead of eliminating the power hit, which, without symmetry, was fatal to stability, they tried to manage it with referees chanting a timing mantra which was not even enforceable. So long as pre-engagement rituals were within the bounds of not wasting time, the refs could not ping variations from one team to another.
mudskipper - there can be a fuss made about it but from what I am reading, the fuss should be directed at the IRB, not the Brumbies - nor the referee either.
.
SuperGrover
Darby Loudon (17)
The article from the west said:
I know that it was a less than orderly process concerning substitutions and the like, but can anyone give some guidance as to what this second half side was?
It sounds like it had White at No. 9, To'omua at No. 10 and Lealiifano at No. 12... and if Hand started I'm guessing Kimlin/Carter as starting locks.
What have I missed?
I know that it was a less than orderly process concerning substitutions and the like, but can anyone give some guidance as to what this second half side was?
It sounds like it had White at No. 9, To'omua at No. 10 and Lealiifano at No. 12... and if Hand started I'm guessing Kimlin/Carter as starting locks.
What have I missed?
Brumby Jack
Steve Williams (59)
Alexander, Moore, Palmer, Carter, Power, Kimlin, Hooper, Mowen, White, To'omua, Sitauti, Lealiifano, Smith, Speight and Mogg
mudskipper
Colin Windon (37)
Mogg has impressed but was a late call to the wider squad so he's outside the 30 at this time... He has come from the Broncos development squad and wanted to return to Union... SO he has physically evolved before becoming a Brumby in a pro sport environment... However I don't believe Jake White has separated these EPS lads from the main group but instead made 2 teams with no first 15 to keep them all training hard-er during the off season... hoping it will make all be more competitive for a start... think he has been very smart in his off season preparations...
By all reports he has plenty of ability and talent...
By all reports he has plenty of ability and talent...
Brumbies Guy
John Solomon (38)
He's been training with the Brumbies for a couple of years now, not exactly a late call up. He was definitely impressive in the Canberra comp this year, only to be ruled out the night before the grand final.
mudskipper
Colin Windon (37)
Thanks for your support... I'm sure all the other teams will be doing the same... and now will never pack down for the scrum... like the All Blacks...
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