Brumbies 2018

[upthereds#!]

I don't think the back row is going to present too many problems for the Brumbies next year. The return of Pocock is a very big plus to start with. Fardy will be a loss, and so will be Smiler. Jarrad Butler has been a very good club man, but will be more easily replaced with the talent avail;able. I believe Cusack will surpass Butler in time, maybe by next year. So one more back rower looks to be what's needed, and while McCaffrey is coming in, probably, I think there will be better available on the market if either of the Rebels or Force are cut.

The bigger problem is in the backs. Hopefully CL will fill a big hole at 10/12, but the current situation with injuries to Godwin and Toua has shown that depth is a problem in the backline. Banks looks the goods at 15, but who's the backup? Wing will be Henry, Taliauli, Muirhead, Dargaville and ????Ahwong?. No 13 is Kuridrani first up but then? Smith is adequate as a late game replacement but doesn't light the game up. JJH and Jooste seem to round out the talent. Both have issues and are quite young, so still a lot of development required to be starting Super Rugby players. Hopefully, there are some moves afoot to bolster the ranks of backline players for next year.

 

[Slim 293]

Whilst it's very frustrating to see the Campbell Magnays, Jack Debrezcinis, and Aiden Touas go the Japanese route, if you let fringe starters sign these contracts then you're setting a bad precedent.

Agreed........ these kinds of arrangements should be scarcely handed out, and only to those few experienced players that are deemed to be important enough to the test team.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Thought I'd seen that Nigel had signed o/s. Maybe not, but his form this year hardly had him in consideration for the match-day squad anyway.

 

[mst]

I don't think the back row is going to present too many problems for the Brumbies next year. The return of Pocock is a very big plus to start with. Fardy will be a loss, and so will be Smiler. Jarrad Butler has been a very good club man, but will be more easily replaced with the talent avail;able. I believe Cusack will surpass Butler in time, maybe by next year. So one more back rower looks to be what's needed, and while McCaffrey is coming in, probably, I think there will be better available on the market if either of the Rebels or Force are cut.

The bigger problem is in the backs. Hopefully CL will fill a big hole at 10/12, but the current situation with injuries to Godwin and Toua has shown that depth is a problem in the backline. Banks looks the goods at 15, but who's the backup? Wing will be Henry, Taliauli, Muirhead, Dargaville and ????. No 13 is Kuridrani first up but then? Smith is adequate as a late game replacement but doesn't light the game up. JJH and Jooste seem to round out the talent. Both have issues and are quite young, so still a lot of development required to be starting Super Rugby players. Hopefully, there are some moves afoot to bolster the ranks of backline players for next year.

Another backrower would be nice but he needs to be one that suits what we need more than a name or reputation.

The backs ironically are a legacy issue from this year and the previous year. They need to decide what to do with JJH and I still think test him @10. They need to start playing Jooste at either 12 or 15. I think 15. If not release him. I think as most teams are scrambling for ready made backs they should take a punt on some new blood. We have seen some talent from the local comp and across the NRC that could be worth taking a risk on.

two we should really focus on are Dargaville at either 13 or 15 and Lausii.

I also have a vague recollection AhWong was going but either way he is still on the fringe at best

 

[TOCC]

Agreed.... these kinds of arrangements should be scarcely handed out, and only to those few experienced players that are deemed to be important enough to the test team.

Disagree... test players have a big enough workload as it is, they're the last people who should be allowed to take up such contracts, already players like Foley and Folau have extensive workloads and travel schedules

 

[amirite]

Disagree. test players have a big enough workload as it is, they're the last people who should be allowed to take up such contracts, already players like Foley and Folau have extensive workloads and travel schedules

Whilst you are correct, I think he's alluding to the fact that you earn the right to have some wiggle room around your contracts.

If you're a player who's earned it, I don't mind seeing blokes do it in the first 2 years of a WC cycle.

 

[mst]

Yeah, nah. It's the equivalent to a have your cake and eat it thing.

Why not if they are important to a Soup team. They may have more than earned it performance wise but not be on the pets list.

No one person should be bigger. If you want the Jersey stay. If you want the money then go.you can't have both and one rule for all. Make the playing field level.

 

[TOCC]

ARU opened Pandora's box and now they have to face the consequences, international trade of rugby players is a sellers market, and between a fringe player like Magnay/Toua as opposed to a Test player like Foley, the ARU have more to lose through player burnout of Foley.

I don't really believe the "earn the right" argument, because that's not how a player is valued in the international market, if foreign clubs deem him good enough then the monetary value will reflect that. In my opinion one of the biggest issues in Oz rugby is the loss of the fringe players, the ones who aren't valued highly at the Wallabies level but provide the depth and continuity at the Super Rugby level.

Flexi-contracts for incumbent Wallabies should be abolished, their workload needs to be managed effectively and back to back season doesn't allow that. If the ARU is struggling to retain players due to financial issues, then my preference would be the fringe players be allowed to head to japan for the off-season and earn extra cash.

Neither scenario is ideal, however if these contracts are to exist, then I'd prefer the fringe players take them up as opposed to the top test players.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah, nah. It's the equivalent to a have your cake and eat it thing.

Why not if they are important to a Soup team. They may have more than earned it performance wise but not be on the pets list.

No one person should be bigger. If you want the Jersey stay. If you want the money then go.you can't have both and one rule for all. Make the playing field level.

The ability of the players isn't level.

You need to pay the players different amounts to retain their services. For some players that can require some creative contracting to get outside funding (i.e. letting them play in Japan).

It's an issue in terms of workload for anyone and clearly it would be preferable if none of our Wallabies were playing extra games by playing through the off season. I think it's a reality of what these guys can earn and how much the ARU can pay though.

 

[mst]

The ability of the players isn't level.

You need to pay the players different amounts to retain their services. For some players that can require some creative contracting to get outside funding (i.e. letting them play in Japan).

It's an issue in terms of workload for anyone and clearly it would be preferable if none of our Wallabies were playing extra games by playing through the off season. I think it's a reality of what these guys can earn and how much the ARU can pay though.

What has the abilities of players have to do with having a level playing field contractually?

As for value of players thats a subjective argument.

The ARU top ups and special deals has in part created the issues. This is no different to any employer faces nowadays. Someone can always make a better offer or has more. It's just a reality if s global economy.

 

[Slim 293]

Just a fix-up for the squad list..........

Lealiifano is contracted until the end of 2018:

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...on-for-another-two-years-20160124-gmd8nx.html

 

[upthereds#!]

Whilst it's very frustrating to see the Campbell Magnays, Jack Debrezcinis, and Aiden Touas go the Japanese route, if you let fringe starters sign these contracts then you're setting a bad precedent.

I think it could be made to work. The goal should be an Australian contract which is good enough $ to keep you here and not have to do back to back seasons and travel to another country etc. However, for those fringe players who are getting limited game time and <100k salaries, which can't set them up for life after rugby, then they should be allowed to go to Japan...encouraged even!. The Japanese season is finishing earlier aswell so even finalists wouldn't miss any Super Rugby.

However - for your Super Rugby contract to be valid - you need to pass a medical and physical standard testing when you return. Eg..if you get a season ending injury in Japan (CFS), then the Reds won't pay you through your recovery. That's between you and your Japanese club and their insurance.

 

[Braveheart81]

However - for your Super Rugby contract to be valid - you need to pass a medical and physical standard testing when you return. Eg..if you get a season ending injury in Japan (CFS), then the Reds won't pay you through your recovery. That's between you and your Japanese club and their insurance.

There's more to it than this though. You might be fit to play but you're way behind in terms of working with your teammates and understanding team structures and plays etc. which affects everyone in the team.

 

[upthereds#!]

There's more to it than this though. You might be fit to play but you're way behind in terms of working with your teammates and understanding team structures and plays etc. which affects everyone in the team.

Absolutely - doesn't help team structures and play either if all your players in 2nd string spots keep leaving the system all together however. Can't be forever promoting teenagers. We cannot be successful as franchises or as a country if we only have high paid super stars and low paid teenagers. We need the middle tier players and those are the ones that are leaving in droves.

I'd rather guys like Aidan be allowed to come back, then promote another teenager before he's ready.

 

[Slim 293]

I'd rather guys like Aidan be allowed to come back, then promote another teenager before he's ready.

Preferably to another team........

 

[Merrow]

Both likely to make dumb decisions - much of a muchness really

 

[mst]

There's more to it than this though. You might be fit to play but you're way behind in terms of working with your teammates and understanding team structures and plays etc. which affects everyone in the team.

Aren't these the reason that the likes of Folau and Foley should nver have been given be on flexi-contracts by the ARU and also why the 60 caps away from everything and return a few weeks (at best) before a test match idea also is idiotic?

 

[Brumby Runner]

That's right. Test squad members should be refused the latitude to take flexible o/s contracts but be paid enough here to keep them here. That might not be possible of course given the purported financial situation of the ARU.

The disruption to a Super Rugby squad of a mid range player, viz Toua, coming back after a stint in Japan is not really likely to be severe. Particularly if they return to the franchise they left, they will know most of the structures and plays. Might take a couple of games to fit back in fairly seamlessly. Would probably take longer for a promoted U20s player or an outsider to grapple with the new team requirements.

On the topic, I would be very happy to learn that Jordan Smiler was on a flexi-contract and that we could expect him back even if he missed a couple of games to start 2018 with.

 

[TOCC]

There's more to it than this though. You might be fit to play but you're way behind in terms of working with your teammates and understanding team structures and plays etc. which affects everyone in the team.

Yet the ARU parachutes in players from Europe to play for the Wallabies and agree to flexi-contracts for players like Folau and Foley

 

[cyclopath]

Yet the ARU parachutes in players from Europe to play for the Wallabies and agree to flexi-contracts for players like Folau and Foley

Not to mention sabbaticals.