Brumbies 2012
- Thread starter Slim 293
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Neil
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As a brumbies member since 1998, I have seen a number of brumby teams rolled out onto Canberra stadium and supported the team through the good and bad years. This was a year which I condemn to the BAD years. Reading a number of above posts, I wish to disagree with some opinions with regards to Ben Hand, as I believe he has been one of the most consistent performers for the brumbies over the past 3 years. he is not a flashy player, howvever, he is one of the harder workers in the team, I also rate him our best lineout organiser and dont understand why Chapman was given this role ahead of him, as the lineout was not nearly as strong this year as previous years with Hand running it.
Looking forward to 2012, I believe the squad is coming together well and White should be able to mould the team together over a long pre season and not too many Wallaby players amongst the group. I too agree the squad requires another lock, is Roussow still a chance ??? Alexander is a tough worker, however I attended some pre season open training sessions last year at Griffith when the main squad was opposing the academy and was unimpressed by his lack of skill, which perhaps he can get away with at Shute shield level. Todays acquisition of Mowen is a great signing as it will enable another lineout back row option and a quality one at that. I would perhaps look at Luke Holmes as an option for a rookie hooker spot, he has s15 experience and would be good foil as Moore's back up with Siliva the long term prospect. I really feel the squad would benefit from an older more experienced inside back to help guide the likes ot To'omua and Coleman, someone in the mould of Brock James or another international goal kicking inside back maybe an option as i currently dont believe the brums have a marquee signing.
Looking forward to 2012, I believe the squad is coming together well and White should be able to mould the team together over a long pre season and not too many Wallaby players amongst the group. I too agree the squad requires another lock, is Roussow still a chance ??? Alexander is a tough worker, however I attended some pre season open training sessions last year at Griffith when the main squad was opposing the academy and was unimpressed by his lack of skill, which perhaps he can get away with at Shute shield level. Todays acquisition of Mowen is a great signing as it will enable another lineout back row option and a quality one at that. I would perhaps look at Luke Holmes as an option for a rookie hooker spot, he has s15 experience and would be good foil as Moore's back up with Siliva the long term prospect. I really feel the squad would benefit from an older more experienced inside back to help guide the likes ot To'omua and Coleman, someone in the mould of Brock James or another international goal kicking inside back maybe an option as i currently dont believe the brums have a marquee signing.
Brumby Jack
Steve Williams (59)
It was suggested today they wouldn't and would only go with the 2 hookers in the squad.
nathan
Darby Loudon (17)
Rough for Hegs, but he really didn't stand out in any of his games this year. That might be improved with experience, but I imagine it would be quite hard for him to get game time considering the quality that most of the Australian franchises poses in the hooking department.
That said injuries do occur, and hanging back in the academy waiting to play a few games and be upgraded onto a full time contract has worked for others.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Therefore he is ineligible for a rookie spot.
Disagree on Hand - he is not hard nosed enough; never has been. You may disagree and that's fine.
So that confirms the strategy to get Mowen a full contract. For their next trick I want to see how they load up the 2nd row. Watch this space.
N
Neil
Guest
How was Timani signed at the tahs this year as a rookie??? - after his stints at both the force and brumbies as a main squad member. Ulugia was also a rookie at the tahs this year, formerly brumbies main squad member. Holmes may still be an option
Hand is alot harder nosed then some other locks in oz - Mumm!!!!!
Hand is alot harder nosed then some other locks in oz - Mumm!!!!!
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Having watched Hand all his rugby life including at school I disagree - but it doesn't matter: it's only opinion.
Timani was not signed up with a rookie contract. Nobody wanted him so he and his brother signed up for Tahs pro academy spots. He and O'Connor, who got a full contract, were cover for Caldwell who was contracted for this year but couldn't play because of a long illness, and Jowitt who was injured in R1 2010 and looked likely not to play in 2011, nor did he. Once it was confirmed that Jowitt was out, Timani could come in.
Ulugia was in the pro academy also, but was elevated when TPN was injured and later Fitzpatrick.
What the Tahs did well was to recruit Timani and Ulugia into the pro academy which pays only $10K to $15K a year when nobody else wanted them. Once they had 3 games they would have been promoted to full contracts. But you have to have those injuries to avoid rorting. The trick is to get players to accept a piddling contract and yet they may never get a gig on the park.
But that was in the period when the constraints on the totals of rookie contracts and full contracts seemed to have lapsed. Maybe it didn't apply then; maybe it did; there was no definitive announcement and there hasn't been for years.
But recently there has been stuff in the press saying that 2012 teams are constrained from having more that 30 contracted players and 5 rookies. More likely the rookie situation is a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 5 as it was in the old days.
Luke Holmes could be employed by the Brumbies but they would have to use up one of the full contract spots but BJ said they're not going that way.
Now that Mowen has one of them there are 15 forward contracts issued and Jake said he is going for a 16/14 split. So there is only one spot left though if Salvi leaves there would be 2 spots available.
The Brumbies have only Kimlin, Hand and Carter signed up for the second row so that last spot may have to go to an experienced 2nd rower, maybe a marquee international player, though the window when these guys are available is closing.
Since it is a RWC year some players would have stopped their careers in European club rugby and could be available for the start of the 2012 season, but I don't know who they would be.
Apart from a fully contracted lock there is a need for a rookie lock too IMO. As I said earlier: he need not be a lineout maestro if Fotu or Mowen are playing. Hence Alexander - or some hard nosed player like him - and if he is more physical than skilful in the lineout it won't be that bad.
Timani was not signed up with a rookie contract. Nobody wanted him so he and his brother signed up for Tahs pro academy spots. He and O'Connor, who got a full contract, were cover for Caldwell who was contracted for this year but couldn't play because of a long illness, and Jowitt who was injured in R1 2010 and looked likely not to play in 2011, nor did he. Once it was confirmed that Jowitt was out, Timani could come in.
Ulugia was in the pro academy also, but was elevated when TPN was injured and later Fitzpatrick.
What the Tahs did well was to recruit Timani and Ulugia into the pro academy which pays only $10K to $15K a year when nobody else wanted them. Once they had 3 games they would have been promoted to full contracts. But you have to have those injuries to avoid rorting. The trick is to get players to accept a piddling contract and yet they may never get a gig on the park.
But that was in the period when the constraints on the totals of rookie contracts and full contracts seemed to have lapsed. Maybe it didn't apply then; maybe it did; there was no definitive announcement and there hasn't been for years.
But recently there has been stuff in the press saying that 2012 teams are constrained from having more that 30 contracted players and 5 rookies. More likely the rookie situation is a minimum of 3 and a maximum of 5 as it was in the old days.
Luke Holmes could be employed by the Brumbies but they would have to use up one of the full contract spots but BJ said they're not going that way.
Now that Mowen has one of them there are 15 forward contracts issued and Jake said he is going for a 16/14 split. So there is only one spot left though if Salvi leaves there would be 2 spots available.
The Brumbies have only Kimlin, Hand and Carter signed up for the second row so that last spot may have to go to an experienced 2nd rower, maybe a marquee international player, though the window when these guys are available is closing.
Since it is a RWC year some players would have stopped their careers in European club rugby and could be available for the start of the 2012 season, but I don't know who they would be.
Apart from a fully contracted lock there is a need for a rookie lock too IMO. As I said earlier: he need not be a lineout maestro if Fotu or Mowen are playing. Hence Alexander - or some hard nosed player like him - and if he is more physical than skilful in the lineout it won't be that bad.
yourmatesam
Desmond Connor (43)
LG - What's Cameron Treloar doing next year?
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
He's signed with the Tahs for a couple of years...
Brumby Jack
Steve Williams (59)
Salvi's apparently off to the UK next year...
Aiming to play for Italy in this year's RWC, his residential qualification comes up shortly. That means he'll be a marquee player in Oz Super Rugby from then on, a la Michael Lipman. Why wouldn't any Joeboy from the Class of 98 want to play international rugby?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
It's the "apparently" word that is the problem. There are a lot of things happening or not happening "apparently". Maybe the Brumbies know that he is going and don't want to tell anybody. That is fair enough, but usually you hear whispers from the overseas club that is acquiring a certain player and I haven't heard anything from anybody.
I said that if Salvi is going they would have two forward contract spots open but time is running out to get guys who are not superannuants. The Brumbies are no doubt in negotiations with players and don't want to tell us and that is fair enough too. By saving one contract spot by using a rookie hooker as 2nd string they could get a prop and a lock for their remaining two contracts or just a lock if Salvi stays.
The Brumbies don't have one premier 2nd rower of international class, and no, I wouldn't count "Noodles" in that category. One would have expected them to have nailed down a premier lock to replace Chisholm in time to announce it by now. Maybe an announcement is pending.
I betcha that Jake has been on the phone at home to a few locks. He would have some pulling power in the RSA.
I mentioned an extra prop as an option if Salvi leaves. Somebody of the Somerville type would be gold even if it was just for one year. I don't rate any of the 4 props as scrummagers except Palmer.
Maybe Jake is phoning a few props too.
And you never know: maybe he will change the goal posts and change to a 17/13 split for his transition year. It's a lot easier to pick up outside back cover in Oz than props and locks if injuries happen during the season.
Brumby Jack
Steve Williams (59)
LG, will have more details shortly about it.
From Brett Harris in The Australian...
And from our good friends at the Canberra Times..
From Brett Harris in The Australian...
And from our good friends at the Canberra Times..
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
Jake White has clearly been following my posts on this board...
This is exactly what I've wanted for some time now...
Salvi is gone, and he's been replaced by a quality big backrower... and it leaves the Brumbies with the space to sign another lock...
Win/Win
I do have concerns about the front row now that Alexander is set to play at TH next year and he and Palmer are by some margin the two best props in the squad...
Unless they sign a decent LH Jerry Y will be starting, and while he did well in the last few games of the season I'm not sure if he's the kind of player to build a future on...
This is exactly what I've wanted for some time now...
Salvi is gone, and he's been replaced by a quality big backrower... and it leaves the Brumbies with the space to sign another lock...
Win/Win
I do have concerns about the front row now that Alexander is set to play at TH next year and he and Palmer are by some margin the two best props in the squad...
Unless they sign a decent LH Jerry Y will be starting, and while he did well in the last few games of the season I'm not sure if he's the kind of player to build a future on...
yourmatesam
Desmond Connor (43)
Isn't it every boy's dream? Not everyone gets there though! Good on Tree, he's done well.
yourmatesam
Desmond Connor (43)
I agree Slim, these signings and losing Salvi are positives. LG has some good points too, it's definitely a good thing to be signing more forwards (particularly tight five) as loosies and backs are easier to come by in Australia. I wouldn't have any drama's with the 17/13 split.
en_force_er
Geoff Shaw (53)
Are you sure? I thought he'd spent most of his time in France?
It would be a great pick-up for Italian rugger though.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
I hate to say it about a player who has always done his best and had some bloody fine games for the Brumbies before he left for Bath, but the departure of Salvi is great news for the Brumbs. It fixes up the abomination of the 3 number 7s situation which was flawed from the beginning.
Hopefully Hooper and Colby will stay fit all next year but if they don't it's a lot easier to get a good 7 from within Australia at short notice than a good prop or good lock.
Although Jake White no doubt reads Slim's posts every morning as he drinks his coffee, what we have been talking about in the last couple of days is not rocket science. He would have a chart of the 2012 Brumbies on the wall, would have known that Salvi was leaving for some time, have his full contracted players highlighted and his rookies highlighted with a different colour.
He would be working hard on the 2 FC circles with the names missing and also the empty rookie circles and the pro academy circles. And I'm 67.8% certain that his chief spotter, Eddie Jones, is giving advice on the matter also.
Hopefully Hooper and Colby will stay fit all next year but if they don't it's a lot easier to get a good 7 from within Australia at short notice than a good prop or good lock.
Although Jake White no doubt reads Slim's posts every morning as he drinks his coffee, what we have been talking about in the last couple of days is not rocket science. He would have a chart of the 2012 Brumbies on the wall, would have known that Salvi was leaving for some time, have his full contracted players highlighted and his rookies highlighted with a different colour.
He would be working hard on the 2 FC circles with the names missing and also the empty rookie circles and the pro academy circles. And I'm 67.8% certain that his chief spotter, Eddie Jones, is giving advice on the matter also.
Cam Treloar
2010/11 is Cam's first year in France. He's been in Italy for the preceeeding three years.
2010/11 is Cam's first year in France. He's been in Italy for the preceeeding three years.
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