Brad Thorn's gym training and physical philosophy.

[WorkingClassRugger]

I'm incredibly impressed but I do have some questions.

Are you talking about 1RM max or 5RM? Also is this to competition form (touching your chest ect)? Raw or with a vest? Natural? Ect.

Because the 1RM Powerlifting Raw U18 Bench Press record in Australia is 142.5 and the same record for U23 is 170kg (I'm suprised by how low that 2nd one is). You would have beaten the national 1RM U18 record with your 5RM at 16 and dwarfed the national U23 1RM record with your 5RM at 19.
http://www.powerliftingaustralia.com/Records/AusMensRaw270412.htm

Now, I'm willing to accept Powerlifting is not a prolific sport in Australia and many people similarly strong or slightly stronger might not get tested but something doesn't make sense.

Not trolling or looking for an argument, just enquiring.

I know plenty of guys who out lifted that record at 18. That's really low, can't be right. There's was an article on a 15 year the ARU had been working on who benched more than that. Told you it came across as unbelievable. But it's all true. And as I highlighted I don't even hold the record in that gym.

Can't be right. I've known powerlifters not much older than 23 who have hoisted over the 200kg mark. Which weight division are those figure from? I was 120kg at 16 and it was my 5 rep max. I will also point out that I started in the gym at 13 and apart from supplements and diet I was completely clean.

 

[en_force_er]

I know plenty of guys who out lifted that record at 18. That's really low, can't be right. There's was an article on a 15 year the ARU had been working on who benched more than that. Told you it came across as unbelievable. But it's all true. And as I highlighted I don't even hold the record in that gym.

Can't be right. I've known powerlifters not much older than 23 who have hoisted over the 200kg mark. Which weight division are those figure from? I was 120kg at 16 and it was my 5 rep max. I will also point out that I started in the gym at 13 and apart from supplements and diet I was completely clean.

All weight divisions, go to the link. They do seem lower than one would expect.

Perhaps the people you've talked too don't bring the weight through a full range of motion or have a help (be it chemical, equipment, or a spotter like in Bruce's example).

Or perhaps the stronger power lifters don't complete in the raw competitions (the figures I've listed) because they'd rather hoist serious numbers wearing extra equipment.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Perhaps.

All weight divisions, go to the link. They do seem lower than one would expect.

Perhaps the people you've talked too don't bring the weight through a full range of motion or have a help (be it chemical, equipment, or a spotter like in Bruce's example).

Or perhaps the stronger power lifters don't complete in the raw competitions (the figures I've listed) because they'd rather hoist serious numbers wearing extra equipment.

Perhaps. But, I'm a little put a back by those though numbers. Powerlifting isn't the cleanest of sports out there and there is a good chance these were assisted but without admission you have to take their word for it. I can assure you that I never looked for 'chemical' assistance as in my house it was frowned upon and that my numbers are all true.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Are you talking about applying NFL style systematic S&C to rugby players or the specific exercises that Sydney uni players do? I trained a lot in the Sydney uni gym last year and didn't really see anything that impressed me.

I have a very specific memory of one player looking jealously at my bar loaded with ~150kg for deadlifts and say 'gee that's a lot of weight' (it's not really) as he and his mates did sets of one-legged-backward-squat-with-a-pike with 40kg... or whatever had been programmed for them that day. It seemed like the rugby players never did the same exercise twice, there was always some seemingly pointless variation.

We tend to see what we choose to see, dangerousdave. Was this the Sydney Uni player looking "jealously at [your] bar loaded with ~150kg for deadlifts and [saying] gee that's a lot of weight"?

That's Jono Jenkins doing 3 reps of Romanian dead lifts with 200kg in exemplary style.

And perhaps this was one of those doing "sets of one-legged-backward-squat-with-a-pike with 40kg... or whatever":

That's David Hickey, one year out of Colts age, doing 4 reps of front squats with 150kg at 95kg body weight. He also does 3 reps of back squats with 190kg.

Or maybe it was this bloke:

That's Byron Hodge, still in Colts, a big unit who's over 200cm tall which doesn't make it any easier for him to do 8 reps of glute thrusts with 140kg.

Still, as you say: "I trained a lot in the Sydney uni gym last year and didn't really see anything that impressed me."
.

 

[TOCC]

well this has turned into a dick slinging contest..

 

[FrankLind]

And can any of these gorillas play rugby?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

2. Calves don't contribute much to any of the athletic qualities required to be a rugby player.

This is all Greek to me but this statement troubled me given the number of time you see a prop limp off with a calf injury.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Jnor]

And can any of these gorillas play rugby?

six of the last seven Shute Shields (and 8 of the last 9 club championships I think) would say yes.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

well this has turned into a dick slinging contest..

Yep, sure has and with the subject matter I guess it isn't that surprising. I think it's possible to admire what Thorn AND the Uni guys have done.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

And can any of these gorillas play rugby?

Hickey certainly can, based on what I've seen of him so far. Jenkins at first grade level, definitely, though I'm not so convinced in Super rugby.

 

[It is what it is]

Hickey certainly can, based on what I've seen of him so far. Jenkins at first grade level, definitely, though I'm not so convinced in Super rugby.

Agree with your assessments TBH.
Hodge can play too and made it into the broader Australia U 20 Squad before missing the final squad.

 

[AlexH]

Yeah, so I like to start my session by super setting shrugs and bicep curls. Then I move onto my standing barbell bicep curls at the squat rack but I usually have to wait for those silly squatters to finish their sets. Someone should tell them that they need to do curls to get the girls. So, anyways, I pump out some massive sets. I try to focus on form so I swing my back in a jerking, twisting motion so I can get more weight up. I'm pretty ripped now and I think my results speak for themselves....

 

[dangerousdave]

We tend to see what we choose to see, dangerousdave.
.

Mildly, but not overly impressed. I have seen similar things to the videos you posted in person and there are some strong guys there but they are not superhuman/out of the ordinary levels of strength for guys that size who have trained for 2-3 years. When I was there it seemed like the heavy squatting and deadlifting was the exception rather than the rule. I overheard lots of conversations between the strength coach and athletes who were 'just going to do beach work today sir' (as coach looked unhappy). I don't see any evidence of a grand 'experiment' other than showing a dedicated S&C program will make your players big and strong. This goes on in pretty much every college(or even high school) american football weightroom, is it just revolutionary to apply it to rugby?

 

[Groucho]

What a fantastic athlete. I'd have him in any team as my enforcer.

 

[en_force_er]

Perhaps.

Perhaps. But, I'm a little put a back by those though numbers. Powerlifting isn't the cleanest of sports out there and there is a good chance these were assisted but without admission you have to take their word for it. I can assure you that I never looked for 'chemical' assistance as in my house it was frowned upon and that my numbers are all true.

I think with Powerlifting it's not that they don't have the rules encouraging you to be clean but they don't have the money to enforce the rules, getting people tested for everything and anything sports enhancing costs $$$.

I don't judge people who use drugs, I just don't have the money or the interest. If I did roids instead of competing against other blokes who don't use roids, I'd be competitng with the blokes that do. I wouldn't be improving my gains by comparision, I'd merely be changing who I'm competing with.

I do feel bad for baseballers, bodybuilders and arguably racing cyclists who pretty much have to use drugs to compete in their field.

We tend to see what we choose to see, dangerousdave. Was this the Sydney Uni player looking "jealously at [your] bar loaded with ~150kg for deadlifts and [saying] gee that's a lot of weight"?

That's Jono Jenkins doing 3 reps of Romanian dead lifts with 200kg in exemplary style.

And perhaps this was one of those doing "sets of one-legged-backward-squat-with-a-pike with 40kg... or whatever":

That's David Hickey, one year out of Colts age, doing 4 reps of front squats with 150kg at 95kg body weight. He also does 3 reps of back squats with 190kg.

Or maybe it was this bloke:

That's Byron Hodge, still in Colts, a big unit who's over 200cm tall which doesn't make it any easier for him to do 8 reps of glute thrusts with 140kg.

Still, as you say: "I trained a lot in the Sydney uni gym last year and didn't really see anything that impressed me."
.

You're loyalty and passion for Uni is impressive Bruce, it's hard to see a club as evil when it's supported by genuinely passionate people.

Not that I consider Uni evil, I have no affiliations in Sydney rugby as of yet but maybe someday.

What a fantastic athlete. I'd have him in any team as my enforcer.

You rang?

 

[kiap]

What a fantastic athlete. I'd have him in any team as my enforcer.

A legend.

You rang?

You just need to get rid of those gaps in your game, ... er ... name!

 

[Antony]

I don't see any evidence of a grand 'experiment' other than showing a dedicated S&C program will make your players big and strong. This goes on in pretty much every college(or even high school) american football weightroom, is it just revolutionary to apply it to rugby?

My understanding of it is/was (and this is fairly limited as I'm not involved with the club) that Uni has heavily cut down on the amount of cardio done relative to other grade sides.

Maybe that's part of the experiment.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

Antony, that was my understanding also, added to having the players continue to lift heavy weights in season. The theory, Bruce correct me if I'm wrong, is that maintaining that strength training through the season allowed Uni players to maintain the level of muscle bulk to deliver on their game plan of physical domination in the collisions (much like the Bulls). The idea appears to be that in the late stages of the season strength beats aerobic capacity and it's easier to overrun your opponent if you are smashing them in contact through being physically stronger.

I think I've got that right.

 

[Scarfman]

Gee, those glute thrusts could really help you in the ... power zone.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Antony, that was my understanding also, added to having the players continue to lift heavy weights in season. The theory, Bruce correct me if I'm wrong, is that maintaining that strength training through the season allowed Uni players to maintain the level of muscle bulk to deliver on their game plan of physical domination in the collisions (much like the Bulls). The idea appears to be that in the late stages of the season strength beats aerobic capacity and it's easier to overrun your opponent if you are smashing them in contact through being physically stronger.

I think I've got that right.

Antony and TBH, you are both on the right track with regard to the Sydney Uni approach to training. My own thinking on physical conditioning for rugby was fundamentally influenced by a post which a South African, Nick Tatalias, put on the long discontinued IRB Forums in 2005. I wrote an article, "Nick Tatalias on explosive strength training for rugby", which I placed on the MyoQuip Blog. Here are a couple of paragraphs which are relevant to the present discussion:

Nick Tatalias suggested that when conditioning coaches observe some of their forwards standing with hands on knees trying to catch their breath, they conclude that the players need more aerobic type conditioning; but he maintains that this "further exacerbates the problem. When in truth the issue is that greater levels of strength are needed, better anaerobic conditioning and lastly sprint endurance."

Tatalias's view is that the players are tired because they have to recruit a relatively high percentage of their muscular strength in each encounter. He contrasts a forward who can squat 120kg with another whose squat is 200kg. The first player may have to use all his strength to push the opposition while the other might be using only 60% of his strength.

"The player with strength reserve will be stronger at the end of the game and still have energy to exert on physically over powering the opposition as well as energy to marshal troops maintain discipline and minimise mental errors."​

​

The Sydney University system has been continually evolving. Training is now virtually year round; there is more focus on doing heavy strength work throughout the season; and since Todd Louden came back as Head Coach last season uncompromising physical contact at training has become the norm. The playing style can still be characterised as physical imposition but instead of being rather ponderous in execution, the players now tend to react with urgency and in unison to emerging situations.
.