Boks v Blecks match thread

[Spewn]

That jersey isn't good. Fake white collars do not look good. Looks like it's painted on as if preparing for the black and white minstrels. (although they did not play like said minstrels).

Rolland was an officious, whistle-blowing, wrongly-surnamed-for-an-Irishman, Irish git when he started. He's improved. But knows nothing about scrums or the breakdown and still has an incongruous surname.

 

[FrankLind]

I thought the ABs played pretty well, but will need to lift in intensity next week.

Jane cemented his position on the back of one performance - proving what a great big-game player he is. Sivivatu, Guildford, and Gear are fighting it out for the other wing.
Toeava and Dagg are competing for the fullback/wing back-up.
SBW didn't look comfortable.
Hore played really well.
McCaw and Carter improved. Carter showed signs of his running game, though I doubt the Aussie defence will be as bad.

Ali Williams lacks -go forward.

 

[Scarfman]

Stickybeak - thanks for the thoughtful comments. In the end, my observations were never about one-off events, but about a systematic approach to the breakdown. Have you read the comments on YouTube? I get them emailed to me. It's always fun to get under the skin of a few kiwis. For a mob who have had the best rugby team in the world for the last 100 years or so, they are an insecure lot and easily discombobulated.

Cyclo - my apologies for bringing the ref to the forefront of the discussion. But you can see why I would take a particular interest on this occasion.

Blue - that's how I thought you'd take it.

 

[Jay]

Thanks for asking.

[video=youtube;pdr-W775hk4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdr-W775hk4[/video]

Did you make that then?

For the record, can you define when a ruck begins and what constitutes legal entry?

 

[Stickybeak]

A ruck begin when there are 2 opposing players in contact over the ball.
You have to enter from behind the hindmost foot.
Most of the issues raised in this video arise because the players are in front of the hind most foot when (a) they enter the ruck - i.e. they come into the ruck from the side, or (b) they are in front of the hind most foot and are participating in the play in some way. If you are not bound to the ruck or maul and you are in front of the hind most foot of the player on your team you are offside and cannot participate in the game until you get onside. So if the refs took a hardline with anybody in fron of the hind most foot, be they loitering, standing pushing or holding a lot of these issues would disappear.

 

[Stickybeak]

Stickybeak - thanks for the thoughtful comments. In the end, my observations were never about one-off events, but about a systematic approach to the breakdown. Have you read the comments on YouTube? I get them emailed to me. It's always fun to get under the skin of a few kiwis. For a mob who have had the best rugby team in the world for the last 100 years or so, they are an insecure lot and easily discombobulated.

Cyclo - my apologies for bringing the ref to the forefront of the discussion. But you can see why I would take a particular interest on this occasion.

Blue - that's how I thought you'd take it.

The Youtube replies seem to overlook the fact that your team (the Wallabies) wasn't playing so in what way was your bias on show?
As for the questioning of the view you took about Franks I see it s a pretty simple: yes he was taken in by a Yarpie but he was standing offside and not trying to get out of the way. He was impeding the Boks entry into the ruck. if they penalised this regularly them ABs would get out of the way!

 

[Running Rugby]

I think last nights game raised some interesting selection dilemmas for the All Black's. We all know that one of their greatest weapons is their counter attack from turn over and poorly kicked ball (and Australia will give you those opportunities) but with Mils at fullback, and while he is still a quality footballer with great vision, his lack of genuine pace seems to hamper their threat.
Secondly, I agree that Ali, seemingly a Henry favourite, lacks a little penetration and go forward in the tackle. With Brad Thorn a given for one lock spot surely Sam Whitelock must be the other.
Then there is the centres- do they stay with the tried and true Nonu and Smith combination or bow to the media pressure and play SBW.
Then there greatest question halfback-Is it the sometimes brilliant but erratic Weepu or is it Cowan or Ellis.
Interesting times ahead for the All Black selectors. (and lets hope they make some poor decisions)

 

[cyclopath]

This ref / cheating / what's a ruck discussion really deserves its own thread, if you want (me, I'm a bit over it). The video being discussed is from last year, and to be honest has been well and truly dissected here, there and everywhere. Not discounting the validity of discussing these issues, but not in this thread.

 

[Stickybeak]

I think last nights game raised some interesting selection dilemmas for the All Black's. We all know that one of their greatest weapons is their counter attack from turn over and poorly kicked ball (and Australia will give you those opportunities) but with Mils at fullback, and while he is still a quality footballer with great vision, his lack of genuine pace seems to hamper their threat.
Secondly, I agree that Ali, seemingly a Henry favourite, lacks a little penetration and go forward in the tackle. With Brad Thorn a given for one lock spot surely Sam Whitelock must be the other.
Then there is the centres- do they stay with the tried and true Nonu and Smith combination or bow to the media pressure and play SBW.
Then there greatest question halfback-Is it the sometimes brilliant but erratic Weepu or is it Cowan or Ellis.
Interesting times ahead for the All Black selectors. (and lets hope they make some poor decisions)

I hope they go with SBW - as Scarfman has shown Smith's off the ball work is difficult to deal with....the real difference is the 2nd rowers: we have to go with high work rate not show ponies (Horwill & Simmons not Horwill and Sharpe).

 

[FrankLind]

No argument the ABs transgressed the laws.

No Kiwi can be bothered making a Wallaby one because what kind of loser is going to make a video showing the Wallabies cheating when the Wallabies [against the ABs] generally lose anyway. It's just not worth the time.

You play to the ref. The ABs are simply better at it than other teams.

I expect, one day, when the Wallabies are at the top of World rugby [and at their current trajectory that might not be far off] some upset Kiwi will begin picking up transgressions, making YouTube videos and simply ignoring the other teams' cheating. Thus implying they are the bigger cheats.

These things are so predictable.

 

[cyclopath]

I think last nights game raised some interesting selection dilemmas for the All Black's. We all know that one of their greatest weapons is their counter attack from turn over and poorly kicked ball (and Australia will give you those opportunities) but with Mils at fullback, and while he is still a quality footballer with great vision, his lack of genuine pace seems to hamper their threat.
Secondly, I agree that Ali, seemingly a Henry favourite, lacks a little penetration and go forward in the tackle. With Brad Thorn a given for one lock spot surely Sam Whitelock must be the other.
Then there is the centres- do they stay with the tried and true Nonu and Smith combination or bow to the media pressure and play SBW.
Then there greatest question halfback-Is it the sometimes brilliant but erratic Weepu or is it Cowan or Ellis.
Interesting times ahead for the All Black selectors. (and lets hope they make some poor decisions)

Some dilemmas, but not bad dilemmas to have, I would venture. Except for the half back one, where I think the ABs are well-stocked with decent half backs, but no really good ones. Weepu is their most dangerous.

 

[Running Rugby]

I am not sure show pony is the right term but I agree with your sentiments. A young hardworking forward pack that can play up tempo rugby and provide fast ball is a must for the Wallabies to experience success

 

[Running Rugby]

I agree, not bad dilemmas, but maybe ones that lead to a little uncertainty. (Am I picking at hopeful straws?)

 

[Jay]

The Youtube replies seem to overlook the fact that your team (the Wallabies) wasn't playing so in what way was your bias on show?
As for the questioning of the view you took about Franks I see it s a pretty simple: yes he was taken in by a Yarpie but he was standing offside and not trying to get out of the way. He was impeding the Boks entry into the ruck. if they penalised this regularly them ABs would get out of the way!

The bias is evident in that he ignores Bok indiscretions - in some cases for the exact offence he's highlighting the AB's doing. The example where Franks & Mealamu are said to enter the ruck from the side for instance. Firstly, Franks doesn't enter a ruck at all - the ball carrier, McCaw is on his feet when Franks arrives. The worst Franks could be said to do is be accidentally offside (this incident is part of the reason I mentioned rucks above - it shows a fairly poor understanding of the laws of rugby on the part of the video maker). Secondly, Mealamu doesn't enter the ruck from the side as claimed. He collides with Smit - both players are retreating behind the ruck at that stage. After Mealamu collides with Smit, he then goes around the back of the ruck and enters legaly. Thirdly, after the collision with Mealamu, Smit enters the ruck from the side.

So in analysing that particular instance he's gotten the law wrong in respect of Franks, wrongly claimed Mealamu committed a penalty offence and completely missed an obvious penalty offence by Smit. He also pauses the action with 3 guys bearing down on McCaw to suggest that only AB cheating could possibly get them out of a dire situation, then ignores the fact that 2 of the tacklers blow past him harmlessly and the 3rd fails to put a meaningful hit on him. I think the bias in the analysis is pretty obvious.

 

[cyclopath]

This ref / cheating / what's a ruck discussion really deserves its own thread, if you want (me, I'm a bit over it). The video being discussed is from last year, and to be honest has been well and truly dissected here, there and everywhere. Not discounting the validity of discussing these issues, but not in this thread.

I normally wouldn't quote myself quite so soon, but READ THIS. If anyone wants to discuss last year's game and video, do it on another thread.
Further posts on this topic will be deleted as they are off topic.

 

[chriscullen]

Ali Williams is surely on the outer now as he has now had poor games in both tests and in the blues/reds game. Regardless of what people want their is really no doubt that the All Blacks will play the tried and tested Nonu/Smith pairing with SBW a super sub. I have a feeling Henry's love child Toeava will be one of the wingers when he is fully fit , he is on the bench for Auckland today.
Can't wait for next Saturday night for a preview of the world cup final.

 

[Jay]

Ali Williams is surely on the outer now as he has now had poor games in both tests and in the blues/reds game. Regardless of what people want their is really no doubt that the All Blacks will play the tried and tested Nonu/Smith pairing with SBW a super sub. I have a feeling Henry's love child Toeava will be one of the wingers when he is fully fit , he is on the bench for Auckland today.
Can't wait for next Saturday night for a preview of the world cup final.

Yeah, when Thorn is fit you'd imagine it'll be him & Whitelock starting. And given it's likely to be Thorn that gets subbed off from that pairing, you'd wonder if Hoeata will get the bench spot as it'd be more of a like for like substitution. Williams will probably get the nod though as Henry is pretty loyal to guys that have performed in the past, even when they're struggling (eg Joe Rokocoko).

 

[cyclopath]

As an Aussie I hope Ali keeps getting picked. He is past his best. I would be amazed if Whitelock / Thorn aren't the top pair.

 

[Victorian Reds Fan]

Even the Kiwi commentators were calling McCaw's infringements.

 

[qwerty51]

Only Justin Marshall.