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Bok Training Squad for the Home 3N games

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PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
PS.

The bigger problem is selection and coaching. They are not bold enough to build depth and try out new players that will give some oldies time off.

I also think that their coaching is sub-standard until they prove otherwise.
Cant understand this. They have going great guns since the WC in 2007 and now all of a sudden it went scew. We had this senior players doing the right things and the coaches not much credit along the way. Maybe the senior players are in a comfort zone at the moment and time for the coach to pick new ones in their places to give them a kick up the arse?

You win World Cups with experiense players and its not that Smit & kie are over the hill or 35 year old. They just need to get stuck in the All Blacks and surely 90,000 supporters behind you, sure no reason to turn this around.

From the squad my run on team,
Kirschner (he was the lonely shiner thus far), Aplon (he showed the doubtful his defensive big hits over the weekend and in great nick) de Jongh ( outstanding in 13 in the CC and in great nick), F Steyn (maybe Jean but we need strong defenders) Habana (he have to play better), M Steyn , Hougaard, Spies, Flo, Schalkie, Matfield, D Rossouw, Beast , Smit , BJ.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Paarl it's simple why we did well until last year:

The breakdown rules favoured our style play.
Our best players were in their prime. All firing 100%.
There was very little for the coaches to do. The tactics were in place and running smoothly and had been for two years.

Suddenly FdP injured, Smit out of shape, Matfield overplayed, Botha out, Jean de Villiers out of form, Habana low on confidence (his move to Cape Town seems to have killed his confidence), Brussow injured, Steyn left, Bismarck injured, Juan Smith takes time off.

Suddenly the coaches were required to:

Come up with a new plan and tactics.
For the first time ever actually coach.
Make bold selections.
Motivate the players.

They are clearly failing.

I don't know who you want to kick. You can kick guys when they are down. Great idea. That's really going to solve all our problems!

PdV has never had to develop tactics and coach. Now he has to. He clearly is incapable. He is panicking. That much is obvious from the shit coming out of his mouth.

What REALLY fucks me off is that he should be bring through some youngsters. As a result we are going to go to the World Cup with the same older guys. They will do okay, retire and then the next coach starts from scratch.

As a result I see at least three years of struggle ahead. Unless some miracle happens. Like PdV gets fired.

But hey, all we need to do is kick the players up the arse and they'll win!

I don't mind losing if I can see there is a plan. But there is no plan.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
PS

I can't see Steyn starting. He has not played rugby since the Wales test and apparently is carrying injury.

JdV should start at 12 and I would move Schalk to 8 and play Flo and Juan. Spies has had three tests in a row where he has been pretty bad.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Blou we say more or less the same thing. Youngsters to kick arse of the experiense players. But that wont happen. Yesterday they had their first practise and look like we may see Steyn, Habs, JdJ, Jean, JP, Steyn, Hougaard, Spies, Smith, Burger, Matfield, BJ, Smit, Guthro starting. If F Steyn isnt fit, Appels will play, Jean still on honeymoon and will be back tomorrow.
 
H

Hartman

Guest
Paarl, you missed out a lock but I assume Rossouw will play. Spies, Smith, Burger is a woeful backline, Burger is not a fetcher anymore and we got exposed vs Aus and NZ for not putting one in the backline in the interests of having a monstrously sized pack.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Ja sorry missed Pakslae. The only one close to a fetcher is Flo, look like he wont make the match 22 if I read between the vineyards.
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
Blue, stop being a stereotypical "we aren't winning everything so the coach is a cretin and we're all doomed" Bok supporter.

FFS, look at your injury roster, including the new kid on the block, Bekker. Look at how you now have more depth at loosehead than you've had in years - Beast and KleinOs Gurthro, who has finally come good. Kirschne

You complain Snor isn't trying new combinations - and then scream he should revert to JdV instead of trying other guys. On which - r, Aplon, de Jongh, Flo - yup, all ancients of days, all got thirty caps under White.

And your solution, btw, is to play a career open-side at 8. Which, as anyone who's played there will tell you, is daft; the running lines, the jobs you have to do, are so utterly dissimilar that unless you've got club/province experience at 8, there's simply no way you'll be able to do the job. It's worthy of Jake White claiming a fetcher was someone to get him beer from the fridge (remember that pearl of wisdom?).

The ABs are currently on superb form. You're currently dealing with an injury and form roster that would break any team. FFS, we know you don't like Snor; but stop coming out with even madder arguments to claim he's mad, because you're not doing your case any service.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Best news in a year. Should have done this before the TriNations started and luckily he have mostly Stormers backline to work with.
Sport24
Tri-Nations

Boks to defend like Stormers
2010-08-11 12:02Email | Print
Johannesburg - The recent defensive lapses on the away leg of the Tri-Nations have prompted Springbok coach Peter de Villiers to lean on the knowledge and know-how of the best defensive team in the recent Super 14.
Stormers and Western Province officials have confirmed that defence coach Jacques Nienaber has been drawn into the national training camp currently being conducted in Johannesburg ahead of the away leg of the Tri-Nations.

The Stormers boasted by far the best defensive record in the recent Super 14 season, conceding just 18 tries in 15 matches. WP, who are the Stormers in all but name, have continued that trend into the current domestic campaign. They top the Currie Cup log with the best for and against record in the competition by some distance.

The Springboks were the best defensive team in the world under previous coach Jake White and it was defence that they built their successful 2007 World Cup campaign around. The basic tenets of the White system were retained into last year’s British and Irish Lions series and Tri-Nations campaign, with the Boks’ massive defensive effort playing a big part in their successes.

However, this year the Bok defence has been porous, leaking 10 tries in three matches, and four apiece in the two matches against the All Blacks. Basic errors such as missed first time and one on one tackles have been at the heart of the malaise.

But there have also been suggestions that an adjustment to the defensive system might be required under the new law interpretations, which have played into the hands of the quick-tempo New Zealand and Australian approach.

The Stormers and WP both boasted their excellent defensive records under the current law interpretations, so clearly their coaching staff knows a thing or two about the business of defending. It is wise then that the Boks have called in Nienaber, who has learned the trade off Rassie Erasmus, the WP senior professional coach, with whom he has travelled a long road.

He started out working with the Cheetahs as a physio when Erasmus was a player, then was employed by Erasmus when he was coaching as a fitness adviser. He has subsequently become respected as the best defensive coach on the local circuit. He took the defensive coaching job on himself this season, but shared it with Brendan Venter in 2009.

It is unclear at this stage the extent that Nienaber will be involved with the Boks and WP sources say that he will be back with WP during the course of this week. WP play the Bulls on Saturday and it is understood that not everyone in the Province camp is happy with the possibility that some of their defensive secrets be exported.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Blue, stop being a stereotypical "we aren't winning everything so the coach is a cretin and we're all doomed" Bok supporter.
I'll stop when I see a plan.

Even if we are losing.

Schalk is not an openside. He has always been makeshift. His best rugby has been playing blindside. We need an openside on the field, but we can't drop Schalk for Flo. We need Juan for his physicality and ball carrying. Spies has been piss poor.

There is no simple solution.

I am 100% de Jongh fan. He has been the find for me. Who else do we play at 12 until de Jongh can move back to 12 when Fourie comes back? There is none else in the squad. You should know from Munster that Jean is no 13. Olivier is not the answer. So I have to "scream for" JdV when people want Frans at 12 (No no no and no).

I maintain that this coaching team has had a purple patch not of their own making.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Blou we say more or less the same thing. Youngsters to kick arse of the experiense players. But that wont happen. Yesterday they had their first practise and look like we may see Steyn, Habs, JdJ, Jean, JP, Steyn, Hougaard, Spies, Smith, Burger, Matfield, BJ, Smit, Guthro starting. If F Steyn isnt fit, Appels will play, Jean still on honeymoon and will be back tomorrow.

Does JP look fit Paarl?
 

Thomond78

Colin Windon (37)
I'll stop when I see a plan.

Even if we are losing.

Schalk is not an openside. He has always been makeshift. His best rugby has been playing blindside. We need an openside on the field, but we can't drop Schalk for Flo. We need Juan for his physicality and ball carrying. Spies has been piss poor.

There is no simple solution.

I am 100% de Jongh fan. He has been the find for me. Who else do we play at 12 until de Jongh can move back to 12 when Fourie comes back? There is none else in the squad. You should know from Munster that Jean is no 13. Olivier is not the answer. So I have to "scream for" JdV when people want Frans at 12 (No no no and no).

I maintain that this coaching team has had a purple patch not of their own making.

Schalk is an openside, but he's not a Kiwi-style openside. He's a 6.5, always has been, and is none the worse for that. Claiming he's not an openside is simply ignoring matters.

It was right to try Olivier at 12. He was top-notch in the S14. However, he's showing that that's where he tops out.

This Bok coaching team has had sustained success for three years. You don't just luck out like that, and they've definitely been doing something right. The new interpretations suit the ABs down to the ground, and have come in just when you're a) shattered (about which nothing can be done, post-Lions) and b) have a clatter of injuries/suspensions (ditto, so long as Bakkies can't find his Moenievokkendomweesatol prescription).

The ABs have a head-start on us all, because the new interpretation is made for the type of rugby they prefer. You'll catch up with the ABs, as will the rest of us. Getting in Nienaber shows, for me, an awareness of where they need to change the game-plan of the last six years, and I think they're correct.

The real poser is John Smit, and where his captaincy no longer outweighs the costs of having others on the bench - and that's a question where there may be no decisive right or wrong answer.

That said, if you really want to point fingers at the coaching squad, then for mine, it's not Snor where things have really gone wrong; it's Muir.
 

Toddy

Chris McKivat (8)
This Bok coaching team has had sustained success for three years. You don't just luck out like that, and they've definitely been doing something right. The new interpretations suit the ABs down to the ground, and have come in just when you're a) shattered (about which nothing can be done, post-Lions) and b) have a clatter of injuries/suspensions (ditto, so long as Bakkies can't find his Moenievokkendomweesatol prescription).

The Boks didn't have a good 2008 at all. They won 2 out of their 6 tri nations and finished last. That's not sustained success. They did have a great 2009 where they were clearly a head of the pack but have since been over taken again because of a coaching team that has refused to change tactics from the year before.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Schalk is an openside, but he's not a Kiwi-style openside. He's a 6.5, always has been, and is none the worse for that. Claiming he's not an openside is simply ignoring matters.

It was right to try Olivier at 12. He was top-notch in the S14. However, he's showing that that's where he tops out.

This Bok coaching team has had sustained success for three years. You don't just luck out like that, and they've definitely been doing something right. The new interpretations suit the ABs down to the ground, and have come in just when you're a) shattered (about which nothing can be done, post-Lions) and b) have a clatter of injuries/suspensions (ditto, so long as Bakkies can't find his Moenievokkendomweesatol prescription).

The ABs have a head-start on us all, because the new interpretation is made for the type of rugby they prefer. You'll catch up with the ABs, as will the rest of us. Getting in Nienaber shows, for me, an awareness of where they need to change the game-plan of the last six years, and I think they're correct.

The real poser is John Smit, and where his captaincy no longer outweighs the costs of having others on the bench - and that's a question where there may be no decisive right or wrong answer.

That said, if you really want to point fingers at the coaching squad, then for mine, it's not Snor where things have really gone wrong; it's Muir.

I half agree. Muir is not up to standard (Super 14 disaster) and neither is Snor. They have been blessed with a squad of players in their prime and laws that 100% suited their style. As soon as they had to move outside that core 22 they had no answers. Witness 3rd Lions test and EOYT selection blunders.

Now that they have to make tough decisions and come up with a new plan they are in denial and keep trying to fall back on the same plan.

Schalk does not tick the boxes of an openside under the current interpretations. His frustration in Brisbane was plain to see. Maybe he was a 6.5 but he is a 6 now and plays is best rugby when he can link, carry and sweep in defense and NOT play towards the ball in defense. That was obvious the entire Super 14 which was his best ever.

They have released Louw to the Stormers. Tell me what is not a dumb decision. MCCaw will have a field day. Louw had one bad half and now suddenly he is not good enough.

I agree on Smit. Well past sell by. I heard a rumour that he is getting his 100th test at home and we might see things change foir him after that...

PdV is playing a holding game. Waiting for Battleship, Botha, Bekker, FdP, Fourie, Brussow. All dandy provided trhey will be fit. We are seeing what happends when they are not. We get fucked.
 

Crow

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Now that they have to make tough decisions and come up with a new plan they are in denial and keep trying to fall back on the same plan.

I think that PdV will go with a more radical plan. In these circumstances it's too easy to overcompensate and I've seen a couple of coaches try something 'out of the box'. It rarely helps. PdV is under too much pressure and I can't see him sitting on his hands after the dismal start to 3N.
 

PaarlBok

Rod McCall (65)
Look like we may a few changes according to Sport24 (they have it mostly spot on)

Sport24
Tri-Nations

Aplon set for fullback start
2010-08-12 10:Brenden Nel

Johannesburg - Stormers wing Gio Aplon looks certain to start the Tri-Nations Test against the All Blacks as fullback next Saturday after the release of Zane Kirchner to play Currie Cup rugby again.

With Racing Metro fullback Frans Steyn still in limbo as to the ankle injury he picked up in a French pre-season game last weekend, Aplon is likely to be partnered by the experience of Bryan Habana and JP Pietersen as the Bok back three look to take a much more attacking shape.

There is no doubt that the plans for the away leg of the Tri-Nations didn’t work out as expected. The much-vaunted kicking game, which is built on pressure, failed without the marshalling boot of Fourie du Preez and in certain positions players were only a limited success.

Steyn will only know more about his injury on Thursday, but even if he is cleared, he will only arrive back to join the squad on Friday, where many of the players will be sent home to enjoy a weekend with their families before reconvening on Sunday to start preparations in earnest for the Soweto showdown.

He has also been out of action for the last two months due to the European off-season and there are valid question-marks about the reasoning behind his sudden reappearance in the Bok squad.

This means the Boks are likely to have a Stormers flavour at the back, with Juan de Jongh also set to get a starting role in the absence of Jaque Fourie, who will miss the Soweto game due to suspension.

The Boks have released Kirchner and Dewald Potgieter to the Blue Bulls and Beast Mtawarira and Bismarck du Plessis to the Sharks for their Currie Cup fixtures. The Bulls have drafted both players directly into the side while the Sharks will start their duo off the bench this weekend.

However, there was talk in the Bulls camp at expecting Wynand Olivier also to return to Currie Cup duty and that he would only remain with the Boks if Steyn was injured. If this is true, then it is the strongest indication yet that the Boks will go into the Soweto Test match with the duo of Jean de Villiers at inside centre and De Jongh outside him.

Of course, if Steyn is ruled out it could also leave a bit of a hole in the Bok plans, so much so that Kirchner may be recalled to provide stability at the back. The other idea that has been toyed with is to drop Habana, who has been woefully out of form of late, and play Aplon on the wing. Either way, ‘Appels’ is likely to be involved in the action.

So much currently hinges on the diagnosis of Steyn that the Boks are keeping their cards close to their chest. An example of this is the veiled secrecy behind Tuesday’s opening practice, where media were asked to leave after the warm-ups and it has now become apparent that Western Province defensive coach Jacques Nienaber was working with the team during the session.

It shows the urgency with which the Soweto Test is being taken and the need for the Boks to secure a victory, rather than a fourth straight loss at the historic venue.

Dewald Potgieter’s return to the Blue Bulls and the fact that Western Province have bracketed Francois Louw for a possible return could well signal the Bok intentions to return to their tried and trusted trio of Pierre Spies, Juan Smith and Schalk Burger.

However, the argument exists for a genuine fetcher to counter Richie McCaw at the breakdowns, especially with Northern Hemisphere referees pointing to a lottery in this area again.

The return of the two Sharks players mean that Chiliboy Ralepelle is likely to start from the bench behind captain John Smit, in his 100th Test match, and that Gürthro Steenkamp, possibly the Springbok forward of the season thus far, will start at loosehead.

The only other talking point, if you could call it that, is whether to play the youthful exuberance of Francois Hougaard at scrumhalf, or continue to lumber with an off-form Ricky Januarie. No guesses which one is favoured around the country.
 

da_grubster

Ted Fahey (11)
will be a helluva test match on the 21st. Abs will be pleased to have had a two week break as it looked like 7 test in 9 weeks were starting to take its toll in our last game.

Boks are back to their normal chaotic, inconsistent best imo. Sure they wont the tri nations last year but that was helped by their lions test series and NZ having a very poor year by their standards. They still lost 4 matches last year, including 2 club games ffs.

Still, they should win at least 2 out of 3 at home if not 3. Even though the bokke were in disarry they will still have a good chance of beating the ABs.

Will be interesting to see how they go adopting this new defensive systems. may be some tetthing issues in the first match which could cost them.

Good to see Smith back in the side, looking forward to seeing how he goes against our backrow.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Squad trimmed down:

http://www.supersport.com/rugby/springboks/news/100815/Trimmeddown_Bok_squad_gets_ready_for_NZ

A Springbok squad of 24 players has gathered in Johannesburg to prepare for the Vodacom Tri-Nations test against New Zealand at FNB Stadium in Soweto on Saturday.

The five players who have been excluded from the group of 29 which took part in a training camp last week are: Jaque Fourie (suspension), Frans Steyn and Ryan Kankowski (both injured), Beast Mtawarira and BJ Botha.

The 24 players assembled in Johannesburg are:

Backs: Gio Aplon, Juan de Jongh, Jean de Villiers, Bryan Habana, Francois Hougaard, Butch James, Ricky Januarie, Zane Kirchner, Wynand Olivier, JP Pietersen, Morne Steyn.

Forwards: Schalk Burger, Jannie du Plessis, Francois Louw, Victor Matfield, Dewald Potgieter, Chiliboy Ralepelle, Danie Rossouw, John Smit (captain), Juan Smith, Pierre Spies, Gurthrö Steenkamp, CJ van der Linde, Flip van der Merwe.

The match 22 will be announced at a media conference on Tuesday.
 
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