Bok Training Squad for the Home 3N games

[rustycruiser]

Forwards

BJ Botha (Ulster)
Schalk Burger (Vodacom Stormers)
Jannie du Plessis (Sharks)
Ryan Kankowski (Sharks)
Francois Louw (Vodacom Stormers)
Victor Matfield (Vodacom Bulls)
Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks)
Dewald Potgieter (Vodacom Bulls)
Chiliboy Ralepelle (Vodacom Bulls)
Danie Rossouw (Vodacom Bulls)
John Smit (Sharks, Captain)
Juan Smith (Vodaocm Cheetahs)
Pierre Spies (Vodacom Bulls)
Gurthro Steènkámp (Vodacom Bulls)
CJ van der Linde (Vodacom Cheetahs)
Flip van der Merwe (Vodacom Bulls)

Backs

Gio Aplon (Vodacom Stormers)
Juan de Jongh (Vodacom Stormers)
Jean de Villiers (Vodacom Stormers)
Jaque Fourie (Vodacom Stormers)
Bryan Habana (Vodacom Stormers)
Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Bulls)
Ricky Januarie (Vodacom Stormers)
Butch James (Bath)
Zane Kirchner (Vodacom Bulls)
Wynand Olivier (Vodacom Bulls)
JP Pietersen (Sharks)
Frans Steyn (Racing Metro)
Morne Steyn (Vodacom Bulls)

29 player training squad. The 25 player squad for the final home 3N games to be announced on Friday. Recalls for Juan Smith, JP Pieterson, and Francois Steyn. Ruan Pienaar and Andries Bekker were not considered due to injury. Bismarck du Plessis and Heinrich Brussow, both returning from injury, have also been invited to participate in the camp (albeit in a reduced role).

 

[PaarlBok]

Francois Steyn included. Lets hope Hougaard starts

 

[Blue]

Francois Steyn included. Lets hope Hougaard starts

According to reports he is injured...

The selections show zero imagination.

None of the backs like Lambie, Duvenhage, Basson, vd Heever who have been doing well in the CC even get a look in.

What are they thinking? Steyn just waltzes in, bombs a couple over from halfway and that's it?

JP is back but that means Aplon will get dropped?

Watch Januarie start at 9. Snor doesn't have the balls and neither does Muir who is seriously being shown up to not be up to scratch when it coems to making selection decisions.

The 3N is lost you dumb ****s. At least show some intelligence and try something new.

 

[DPK]

According to reports he is injured...

The selections show zero imagination.

None of the backs like Lambie, Duvenhage, Basson, vd Heever who have been doing well in the CC even get a look in.

What are they thinking? Steyn just waltzes in, bombs a couple over from halfway and that's it?

JP is back but that means Aplon will get dropped?

Watch Januarie start at 9. Snor doesn't have the balls and neither does Muir who is seriously being shown up to not be up to scratch when it coems to making selection decisions.

The 3N is lost you dumb ****s. At least show some intelligence and try something new.

If you're right, Blue, Snor is missing a really good opportunity to find some backup for the currently injured players. FdP is a good example; Januarie has been tested before, and retested this year and shown to be not up to it. Pienaar didn't look up to it either, but he wasn't given a decent go and is now injured. He could start Hougaard now, get him some experience now, play him through the EOYT's and then have a quality bench SH for next years Tri Nations when FdP returns.

 

[Blue]

It;s about being bold.

I am 100% sure that equivalent players like Hougaard, Pat Lambie and vd Heever would have been in the Wallaby or All Black system by now.

Look at O'Connor, Dagg, Stanley.

Other than de Jongh and Aplon, the current coaches simply have not taken a punt.

 

[DPK]

It;s about being bold.

I am 100% sure that equivalent players like Hougaard, Pat Lambie and vd Heever would have been in the Wallaby or All Black system by now.

Look at O'Connor, Dagg, Stanley.

Other than de Jongh and Aplon, the current coaches simply have not taken a punt.

Absolutely. Although he is a favorite of mine, I can say without bias that he would be selected. IMO Pietersen was flat this year and wouldn't add the spark that GvdH would.

 

[PaarlBok]

Also surprise not to see Duanne Vermeulen name. He and Tiaan have been in prime CC nick. Noakes asked them to take the old age Bokke away for 8 weeks. See Rapports front page article.

 

[alexfaure]

thats a terrible pack. there are some people there that shouldnt be there. example, Januarie. i do not understand how someone who doesnt start in S14 but starts for an internation side, it continuously confuses me.

Also im glad that du blessis is back, he was a missing key for when the boks went on tour.

 

[DPK]

thats a terrible pack. there are some people there that shouldnt be there. example, Januarie. i do not understand how someone who doesnt start in S14 but starts for an internation side, it continuously confuses me.

Also im glad that du blessis is back, he was a missing key for when the boks went on tour.

The Doc was injured wasn't he?

 

[fatprop]

What does Tiaan Liebenberg have to do to get run. He was the best Hooker in the S14 with Nau

 

[Hartman]

Players I think shouldn't be there:
Forwards

BJ Botha (Ulster)
Schalk Burger (Vodacom Stormers)
Jannie du Plessis (Sharks)
Ryan Kankowski (Sharks)
Francois Louw (Vodacom Stormers)
Victor Matfield (Vodacom Bulls)
Tendai Mtawarira (Sharks)
Dewald Potgieter (Vodacom Bulls)
Chiliboy Ralepelle (Vodacom Bulls) Absolute waste considering who is available.
Danie Rossouw (Vodacom Bulls)
John Smit (Sharks, Captain) Time for a changing of the guard, it's got to the point where what he contributes to the team in leadership doesn't outweigh his lack of ability on the pitch
Juan Smith (Vodaocm Cheetahs) Good to have him back
Pierre Spies (Vodacom Bulls)
Gurthro Steènkámp (Vodacom Bulls)
CJ van der Linde (Vodacom Cheetahs) Too old
Flip van der Merwe (Vodacom Bulls) I have trouble believing he's the next best option after Rossouw and Bekker

Backs

Gio Aplon (Vodacom Stormers)
Juan de Jongh (Vodacom Stormers)
Jean de Villiers (Vodacom Stormers)
Jaque Fourie (Vodacom Stormers)
Bryan Habana (Vodacom Stormers)
Francois Hougaard (Vodacom Bulls)
Ricky Januarie (Vodacom Stormers) I won't even bother explaining this one
Butch James (Bath) Just why? He's contributed nothing in any game he's played all year. Why are they keeping him around?
Zane Kirchner (Vodacom Bulls) time and time again has proven he's not up to it. Extended squad yes, match 22 no.
Wynand Olivier (Vodacom Bulls) only as a backup to JdV, he doesn't have enough creativity
JP Pietersen (Sharks)
Frans Steyn (Racing Metro) Finally back, thank god.
Morne Steyn (Vodacom Bulls)

29 player training squad. The 25 player squad for the final home 3N games to be announced on Friday. Recalls for Juan Smith, JP Pieterson, and Francois Steyn. Ruan Pienaar and Andries Bekker were not considered due to injury. Bismarck du Plessis and Heinrich Brussow, both returning from injury, have also been invited to participate in the camp (albeit in a reduced role).

Players that should have been in the squad (obviously not all of them but pick a few):

Gerhard van den Heever (though I don't think he's as good as some people think) / Bjorn Basson / Michael Killian (maybe develop him a bit more first, get him out of the Lions)
Dewaldt Duvenhage / Sarel Pretorius / Jano Vermaak
Adriaan Strauss or preferably Tiaan Liebenberg
Brok Harris / Werner Kruger
Peter Grant
Patrick Lambie

So given that, my Bok 22 for the game, assuming fitness of players:

(let me also say that I think we should begin converting some looseheads to tightheads - why not Gurthro?)

1. Tendai Mtawarira
2. Bismarck du Plessis
3. Gurthro Steenkamp (if unable to play TH, start him at 1, move Tendai to the bench for Brok Harris, and reluctantly play BJ Botha)
4. Danie Rossouw
5. Victor Matfield (C)
6. Heinrich Brussow / Francois Louw
7. Schalk Burger / Juan Smith
8. Pierre Spies
9. Francois Hougaard / Dewaldt Duvenhage
10. Morne Steyn
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jean de Villiers
13. Juan de Jongh
14. Gio Aplon
15. Frans Steyn

16. Tiaan Liebenberg
17. Brok Harris
18. Andries Bekker (while injured, Flip vd Merwe...)
19. Juan Smith / Schalk Burger
20. Francois Louw / Heinrich Brussow
21. Wynand Olivier (pity Jaque Fourie is suspended or could have JdJ here, better since he can cover both centres and has played with Fourie all S14 season)
22. JP Pietersen (can cover FB or wing)

 

[Blue]

Hartman:

It's irrelevant who they pick in the games. The right people are not in the squad. Spot on. Those guys you mention all deserve a go and there is no better time than now.

You can't start Bismarck yet. He has to come off the bench. You won't see them drop Smit.

Steenkamp cannot play Tight head. Never has. He is just developing into a good LH.

You and I can dream about Duvenhage all you like...not going to happen and terribly frustrating.

 

[Hartman]

You can't start Bismarck yet. He has to come off the bench. You won't see them drop Smit.

I agree that that's what they WILL do, but I don't think it's what they SHOULD do. Maybe they'll move Smit to Tighthead since we don't have a good TH anyway and we've got solid options at 1 and 2?

 

[Blue]

What does Tiaan Liebenberg have to do to get run. He was the best Hooker in the S14 with Nau

Kill every other hooker playing first grade rugby in SA.

 

[Blue]

I agree that that's what they WILL do, but I don't think it's what they SHOULD do. Maybe they'll move Smit to Tighthead since we don't have a good TH anyway and we've got solid options at 1 and 2?

From what I have seen written in the SA media, the Smit TH experiment is over.

But with Clownus Horrobulus you never know.

 

[PaarlBok]

Noakes asked them to take the old age Bokke away for 8 weeks. See Rapports front page article.

OK I am getting confused like hell at the moment regarding this players to old/ burn out and other issues. Here is the afrikaans articles regarding prof Noakes recomodations on the one hand:
Rapport

Bokke stuur af op WB-ramp’2010-08-07 22:00
Terwyl Suid-Afrika se rugbybaas, mnr. Oregan Hoskins, óók deur ’n Sanzar-tugverhoor in die gesig gestaar word, het die sportwetenskaplike prof. Tim Noakes die afgelope week gemaan die Springbokke se Wêreldbeker-veldtog stuur op ’n ramp af omdat die Bokke oud, poegaai en onfiks is.

In ’n persoonlike brief sê Noakes aan Hoskins “noodsaaklike stappe moet dadelik” gedoen word. Dit moet onmiddellik gedoen word indien die span van die Bok-afrigter, Peter de Villiers (wat Vrydag op Sanzar se rooi tapyt was), aanstaande jaar “enigsins” mededingend wil wees wanneer hulle hul Wêreldbeker-kroon in Nieu-Seeland gaan verdedig.

Noakes sê in sy brief die Bokke is uitgeput weens te veel rugby, kernspelers is te oud vir internasionale rugby en die spelers is nie fiks genoeg om die spel te domineer soos hulle in die verlede gedoen het nie. Hy stel voor dat hulle dadelik ’n ruskans gegee word en nie in die oorblywende Drienasies-toetse speel nie.

Die spelers moet vir solank as agt weke ruskans gegee word, waarna hulle vir ’n verdere vier tot agt weke spesiale fiksheidsprogramme moet volg.
Noakes beveel ook aan dat die Bokke aanstaande jaar voor die Wêreldbeker-toernooi slegs ’n beperkte aantal wedstryde speel sodat hulle vars kan wees vir die toernooi.

and the current WP coach view about the CC log leaders in
Burger

Coetzee sê die WP se kondisionering is uitstekend. “Dis dié dat ons tot dusver nogal gelukkig is met beserings. Ek wil ook nie ouens terughaas nie, maar ek wantrou die storie van spelers aanmekaar rus.

“Ek glo jy raak skerp deur te speel.

“Gee die manne tyd af sodat hulle kan ophou dink aan rugby, maar hoe meer jy speel, hoe beter hanteer jou liggaam die stampe.”

(Sorry I cant find this in the english versions)

 

[Thomond78]

Oom, it's the same for us. It's post-Lions burn-out. It's not unusual, and the fact that it was a savage Lions series didn't help either you or us. People pick up injuries and get knackered as a result.

 

[PaarlBok]

Oom, it's the same for us. It's post-Lions burn-out. It's not unusual, and the fact that it was a savage Lions series didn't help either you or us. People pick up injuries and get knackered as a result.

Well I hope we turn this shite around in two weeks time. Time or experiense Bokke stand up and roll these All Blacks and Wallabies. Its vital vital we simply cant afford to lose a single test at home. Vokket man I am sick and tired looking at the clown avators from my Brute broers. Its sickening.:lmao:

 

[Blue]

For everyone's benefit, Tim Noakes is a renowned sports scientist. He is saying that some the top Boks are old and tired and need eight weeks of conditioning and need to play minimal rugby prior to the RWC. No surprise.

Paarl then quotes the WP coach who says that players need to play to remain sharp.

Paarl I think Noakes refers to the core Bok players, not everybody.

I think there is truth in both sides but guys like Matfield and Smit look out of shape and tired. Matfield has had no rest since the World Cup. Nothing. Smit was injured and came straight back. His gut is proof he has not had the time to get to gihhting weght (and if you read his book he acknowledges that he finds it very tough to lose weight).

FdP being injured is a blessing in disguise. Juan Smith looks very fresh. I wonder why? He has had two months off, that's why.

I hear Bismarck has bneen doing hectic conditioning and is apparently in prime shape. Let's see in a few weeks time.

I think the answer is selective management of your players. A lot of them are not getting younger.

 

[Blue]

PS.

The bigger problem is selection and coaching. They are not bold enough to build depth and try out new players that will give some oldies time off.

I also think that their coaching is sub-standard until they prove otherwise.