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Bledisloe IV 2010 Hong Kong

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Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Just back from browsing the NZ Herald online.

A fairly muted and measured response from the Journos over there.

Found Richard Loe's piece interesting.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=10684314

This clause caught my eye in his article "...But playing for the All Blacks and playing for your country is an honour and a responsibility and you have to live up to it...."

If the NZRT all lived up to Mr Loe's example of honour and responsibility, then most would probably be behind bars for assault.

Just ask Matt Cooper and Paul Carozza about their eyes and noses respectively. Richard seems to have developed as a reasonable sort of correspondent, and he has "done the time" for the "Cooper crime" so perhaps we should move on.

He makes a number of astute observations in his articles but he is not one to be lecturing about the honour of playing for your country.
 

DPK

Peter Sullivan (51)
Graham Henry gets good bloke status from me. In the post-match press conference McCaw seemed a bit... well, cut. As you would be, losing out in such a tough test. And at the death. But Henry was gracious in defeat and gave credit to both sides where it was due. Even when they won in Sydney and in Melbourne, he was measured and unsensational. Classy stuff.
 

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Graham Henry gets good bloke status from me. In the post-match press conference McCaw seemed a bit... well, cut. As you would be, losing out in such a tough test. And at the death. But Henry was gracious in defeat and gave credit to both sides where it was due. Even when they won in Sydney and in Melbourne, he was measured and unsensational. Classy stuff.

Yeah I almost felt sorry for McCaw....

..not
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Dingo's bench use made the difference last night.

When they came on they invariably made a difference, and in some instances, significantly improved the teams performance.

Henry's bench seemed to degrade the team performance when they ran on. The NZRT may have made too many changes at once destabilising the overall team.

The Wobs were able to pressure them into uncharacteristic errors before they had settled down. Seemed to make the difference and swing momentum our way.
 

Bon

Ward Prentice (10)
Dingo's bench use made the difference last night.

When they came on they invariably made a difference, and in some instances, significantly improved the teams performance.

Henry's bench seemed to degrade the team performance when they ran on. The NZRT may have made too many changes at once destabilising the overall team.

The Wobs were able to pressure them into uncharacteristic errors before they had settled down. Seemed to make the difference and swing momentum our way.
There was nothing uncharacteristic about Donald's errors,he showed us during the last tests they used him in that he appears unable make the step up to test level.
 
R

Rugby Rat

Guest
Breaks out wide. Reckon Fiji could cause a huge upset if they field a similar side next year as they did 4 years ago. Scrumaging and dicipline in their forwards a key issue.
 

en_force_er

Geoff Shaw (53)
I always feel the ABs behave well in defeat, both captain, coach and the rest of the players.

Sometimes when we win some of the younger blokes on our team behave a bit silly. I guess that's part and parcel of being young and the fact that every new win they get in a new achievement rather then reliving an old one.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Have we done the right thing in beating the Darkness?

We may have sown a seed of doubt in them which may lead them to ultimate destruction at home in the Semis next year.

Alternately, we may have given them the wake up call that they need to prevent them getting overconfident in the lead up to their traditional semi final choke. The Honkers Choke may be the one key game they lose each 4 years. Unfortunately it may have come at the 3 year mark, 50 weeks too early for their traditional RWC choke.

By all accounts The Darkness should be in Semi Final 2 on 16 October 2011 vs the Saffers (most likely). Their choke there should set up a Saffer vs Us final on Oct 23 2011.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
Dingo's bench use made the difference last night.

When they came on they invariably made a difference, and in some instances, significantly improved the teams performance.

Henry's bench seemed to degrade the team performance when they ran on. The NZRT may have made too many changes at once destabilising the overall team.

The Wobs were able to pressure them into uncharacteristic errors before they had settled down. Seemed to make the difference and swing momentum our way.

Deans is starting to have better bench options with Robinson, Moore & Alexander back, add Nau, Palu, Horwill & Iaone; and you get Moore, McCalman, Chisholm or Mumm & Mitchell or JOC (James O'Connor) contributing off the bench as well
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
qwerty that was a pretty shocking pass by barnes only rupeni could have caught that

Yeah it was ordinary - it's a pity that he didn't have confidence in his right foot step and run instead as there was only green in front of him apart from someone who seemed to be ambling across.
 

RedsHappy

Tony Shaw (54)
.....For the naysayers - here's the thing; yep there were deficiencies but even with them we deservedly beat the #1 team - which many Kiwis are describing as one of the best ever and the ranking points would agree - in the world. Don't give me any "they weren't on form" bullshit. They were nigh on a world record winning streak - how the fuck is that not on form?!? This young Wallaby team can put together patches of attacking play that NO TEAM can live with. It's not based of pre-formed set pieces, or religiously drilled in formulas, it's based on natural footballing ability brought to the fore in players like Pocock, Beale, O'Connor and the Coopers. What's missing is what I want to call "the glue". The bits that string those together - the set piece, re-starts, crunch kicks, key tackles. But bit by infuriatingly slow bit, that glue is coming together, although not as fast as the brilliant attacking chunks have evolved.Should they knit it all together and apply the glue - and there's no guarantee they will - this will be the most electric and successful Wallabies team, and remain so for a long time. First win on the veldt for 40 odd years, breaking the ABs winning streak (in what should have been the last 2 matches), the young freak talents coming to the fore to win games. It's all bubbling along nicely

Gagger, in the live blog, just at the end, you asked me if things were now demonstrably coming along well/coming together well, for these Wallabies (or something similar). I had to leave then, but it's very fair question, as I am certainly a 'Deans naysayer' post 2009's performances. So, my thoughts:

- the breakthrough for me was not in any aspect of precise play (see below), it was unquestionably the ability to convert a 1H deficit vs the ABs into a victory executed in the final 10 or so minutes, a victory based upon a form of mental composure, organised aggression and consistent physical stamina that we have not seen from this team in such conditions for a very long time - 'the top 2 inches came alive'. That for me was the despair-relieving transformation, and I give the team great credit for finally showing this essential act of mental strength converted to points under severe pressure as a loss loomed otherwise. It is precisely the absence of this mental composure and discipline that has lost us game after game, and in a sense it was a case of 'out ABing the ABs', and btw they knew it, and, even more importantly, they (ABs) now know we are capable of it (but see below).

- the above was the key 'improvement', but, it has be said, IMO no other obvious deficiency in the Wallabies play has greatly improved as of 10pm AEDT October 30. And further acid tests lie ahead: can this 'achieve the final kill' mental capability hold, and can it be repeated in non-dead rubbers when silverware is at stake in non-neutral grounds? Let's be cautious until the required test of repeatability is solidly passed in the weeks ahead (and in 2011).

- let us now take, as core skills examples, kicking and defence (selection, set-pieces, ruck skill etc for another day perhaps). Crucial attributes of staying successfully with life at the top, and, indeed, being the top. Two central issues here, of which I am highly critical: first, the inexplicable, reckless, unforgivable, perseverance with Giteau in the run-on side and as No 1 kicker (who has been no better than a 75% average kicker since 2008). It's all been said before, today it all must said again: had it not been for the great skills imbued in that last try, and, critically, its conversion by a non-Giteau, we would all be, rightly, today blaming hapless and club-level kicking deficiencies for yet another debilitating loss, and it would have been the 5th Test lost in this way on the last 12 months. Our kicking strategy and consistency is a complete, appalling mess and, after 2.7 full Deans' seasons, this is grossly negligent coaching and selection, there are no other appropriate words. To have a blow-in, part-time kicking coach communicating solely by videos from SA to HKG/Europe, is simply laughable given the background. Second, defence: just about everyone has said it: last night the second-rate defence stats that Austin has highlighted through almost all of 2010's Test were again in evidence, and quite easily could have cost us the game, and will surely cost us future losses to the Boks, ABs and others if not corrected with more urgency than is currently the case.

- subject to reasonable levels of athletic and footballing talent, defence and kicking are coachable and improve-able capabilities (and btw as is most of 'the glue' you refer to above) where adequacy can be converted into sustained excellence. The key ingredient is specialist coaching. Is it not obvious that the Wallabies assistant coaches in these crucial areas have been inadequate, or dangerously non-existent? Blake is an emergency catch-up of unpredictable capability at this level.

- In summary, I see this as an encouraging but still flawed victory that will not be sustainable or adequately repeatable unless and until superior specialist coaching in critical areas is brought into the Wallaby fold, and very quickly. Further, the extraordinary indulgence of one player at the manifest expense of the team's capability and the fans' deserved enjoyment, must be excised with immediate effect.

- Deans is a talented rugby conductor, but the crucial flaw was/is his self-constructed identity as 'the Master Coach'. Namely, the conductor yes, but also the person seemingly capable of simultaneously directing the lead violinist, the french horns and the lone flautist down the very back. This construction led him to appoint weak and ill-qualified support personnel, and/or to overrule the strong ones (Foley), and to under-recruit the broader range of specialists essential to success at the very top of the modern game (eg, defence, mental skills, kicking). The flaws of coaching infrastructure are IMO all over the poor 2008-10 w-l ratio, it is NOT just a matter of 'cattle problems' leaving the coaches blamelessly wringing their hands. If Nucifora, Blake and a proper, dedicated kicking coach (not an absent part-timer) can with RD achieve a team of deep and consistent competence, and we build a base of say 40 elite players that can commence the long-overdue revival of the code in Australia, I for one will be a thrilled and re-dedicated fan.
 

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Someone get RH a new keyboard!! Phew!
Good post.
A few points - you make a lot of sense - it could have been a loss, and all the implications that follow it would be getting re-hashed today. But they won. We could have won a couple of others in recent times too; a lot of what ifs. A big positive for me is the developing confidence in 1st phase attack, and some nice combinations, particularly from Beale's input.
I disagree our kicking strategy is appalling - Beale and Cooper in particular kick pretty well in general play, but Cooper certainly had an off night, especially towards the end. Execution is inconsistent, no doubt. There are some "one-off" kicks that need to be cut out - Bieber did a horror, Gits has his moments. Barnes may help here - he has an accurate kicking game too.
From the coaching perspective, Egerton is now in there, and while he is nominally the player manager, he has shown plenty of nous previously, and I think could be a big plus. Blake worries me, as I am not sure what he really brings.
But yes, problems that must get better include 1st up tackling, scrum, lineouts without Moore throwing, goal-kicking (which seems quite fixable, but someone has to hobble Gits).
A lot of Kiwis has espoused that the ABs had it all over us for 2 years - of course 10 wins in a row would seem to back that up. But they rarely "flogged" us, and won more than a couple by very slim margins. They are still a benchmark, but a really good tour by the Wallabies will go a long way to reminding them, and the rest of the world, that they are beatable. But you gotta be good.
 

Lee Grant

John Eales (66)
Rolland had a fairly ordinary night for a RWC final ref but it's good to have a whinge when one's teams wins.

I have talked about the scrum engagements on the thread started for it so I won't go there.

Both teams would have had cause to complain that they were disadvantaged but let the Kiwis talk about their side of things.

Drawing a long bow the ref could have cost us the first two NZ tries and one was arguably a 14 point turnaround.

• When Alexander ran with the ball towards the NZ goal line the referee impeded Smith from tackling the ball runner; so he blew his whistle and ordered a scrum. It seems fair but the law does not protect the tackler and most of us would have seen a few occasions when the ref has correctly allowed play to go on.

The ref should award a scrum only if the ball or the player carrying it touches the ref and Alexander did not touch Rolland. Muliaina tackled Alexander but he could have popped it to Pocock running obliquely to him, from the ground. At the very least Rolland should have retreated to allow the run and Smith's tackle. Then there would have been no scrum.

But the scrum took place, then the resulting penalty and the attack of the Kiwis and Cowan's try. All Rolland's fault; we wuz robbed I tell's ya, robbed.

Sure we should have not engaged early nor missed tackles after the lineout but this is my post thank you and that was a 14 point turnaround in my mood then so why spoil a good story? [Where is that icon for a long bow?]

• Rolland warned both sides early not to push until the ball was in the scrum. Fair enough. When the scrum was set after Cooper kicked out on the full following the lucky Cowan try what happened? The two packs engaged and the Blacks pushed off the mark. Free kick Oz? No - try to Jane after a couple of phases.

Should we have tackled better? Certainly but the tackles should have been made by the Kiwis as we were running towards their in-goal.

21 points I tells ya – 21 points Rolland owes us. No inconvenient remarks thank you. This is my fairy tale.
 

Groucho

Greg Davis (50)
Have we done the right thing in beating the Darkness?

We may have sown a seed of doubt in them which may lead them to ultimate destruction at home in the Semis next year.

Alternately, we may have given them the wake up call that they need to prevent them getting overconfident in the lead up to their traditional semi final choke. The Honkers Choke may be the one key game they lose each 4 years. Unfortunately it may have come at the 3 year mark, 50 weeks too early for their traditional RWC choke.

By all accounts The Darkness should be in Semi Final 2 on 16 October 2011 vs the Saffers (most likely). Their choke there should set up a Saffer vs Us final on Oct 23 2011.

If it was a choke, then we may indeed have erred.

If we beat them, then we have done the right thing. All winning runs must start with a single victory.
 

Brumbies Guy

John Solomon (38)
Have we done the right thing in beating the Darkness?

We may have sown a seed of doubt in them which may lead them to ultimate destruction at home in the Semis next year.

Alternately, we may have given them the wake up call that they need to prevent them getting overconfident in the lead up to their traditional semi final choke. The Honkers Choke may be the one key game they lose each 4 years. Unfortunately it may have come at the 3 year mark, 50 weeks too early for their traditional RWC choke.

By all accounts The Darkness should be in Semi Final 2 on 16 October 2011 vs the Saffers (most likely). Their choke there should set up a Saffer vs Us final on Oct 23 2011.

The young Wallabies now know they can beat the All Blacks going into the RWC, and the All Blacks go in knowing the Wallabies can beat them. We are in a position 1000 x better than an 11 losing streak
 

whatty

Bob Loudon (25)
Looks like the ONLY reason the AB's lost was because of mistakes make by Donald in the last few mins according to a certain few NZ forums, go figure....
 

Scorz

Syd Malcolm (24)
Congrats Wobbs and Wobbs fans, you finally got to the other side of the ledger, yes I do blame Donor Duck Donald and Former Failed Child Star Toeava but no excuse from me. 10-2.
 
M

Muttonbird

Guest
By all accounts The Darkness should be in Semi Final 2 on 16 October 2011 vs the Saffers (most likely). Their choke there should set up a Saffer vs Us final on Oct 23 2011.

Fearsome confidence here given that this possible Semi is an as yet unconfirmed match that the Wallabies will have absolutely no influence upon, but I guess that's what makes an Australian an Australian and we, in New Zealand, the poor cousins.

Seriously though, the All Blacks must be the underdogs for RWC2011, so sure are all amateur pundits that the seemingly enevitable failure will re-occur. Now that is something different from past tournaments, isn't it?
 
M

Muttonbird

Guest
Looks like the ONLY reason the AB's lost was because of mistakes make by Donald in the last few mins according to a certain few NZ forums, go figure....

That's what Juan Cote thinks too.
 
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