Bledisloe III at Perth, 5/09/21 - 4pm AEST

[Pfitzy]

Why do people think Vunivalu is a fix for this team?

Because many, Many, MANY rugby people in Australia think the fix is just picking the right coach they like, or player they like, or get an administrator from the school THEY went to.

A lot of people - some of them in the hierarchy - don't want to look at the systemic issues, because that requires effort and time.

 

[eastman]

I've


And speed can only be trained to a point. Got to start with the widest talent pool you can manage, to capture talent, and go from there.

Anecdotally, I've been seeing a few guys with African heritage come into Subbies Rugby and pretty sure a couple are at Premier level as well. Lighting fast, but rugby isn't their first-choice sport. How do we change that?

100% - you need to be able to attract the top athletes.

 

[Slim 293]

I'm more concerned by our ongoing lack of support play whenever we do make a break...........

Whenever the NZ teams make a break, they always seem to have multiple players there in support, whereas we're always isolated and then turn the ball back over when the miracle ball doesn't stick.

 

[PhilClinton]

I've


And speed can only be trained to a point. Got to start with the widest talent pool you can manage, to capture talent, and go from there.

Anecdotally, I've been seeing a few guys with African heritage come into Subbies Rugby and pretty sure a couple are at Premier level as well. Lighting fast, but rugby isn't their first-choice sport. How do we change that?

Two words: Roger Fabri.

Unlock the secrets of speed with the greatest sprint coach in Australia. The NRL teams are clued in. Time for RA to stump up the cash.

 

[chasmac]

Our outside backs just aren't fast enough as a unit and it really shows through our inability to finish.

Guys like Kellaway look pretty good compared to their Aussie counterparts but will continue to get shown up against their elite counterparts (not just the ABs but also SA, England and France).

Cannot coach speed. Well, you can, but, a good 85% of it is genetic. Statistic plucked from thin air to make a point. Coming from a budding winger who at his 2nd training session ever was told to go and introduce himself to the forwards coach. Played front row (badly) from U10s until retirement

 

[Ignoto]

Our outside backs just aren't fast enough as a unit and it really shows through our inability to finish.

Guys like Kellaway look pretty good compared to their Aussie counterparts but will continue to get shown up against their elite counterparts (not just the ABs but also SA, England and France).

Curious, when has Australia in say, the last 20 years had the fastest backs on the park?

I'd also say, you're better off getting blokes who have fast acceleration rather than top end speed. Most of the line breaks come from being able to create that initial bit of room and not giving it to a bloke who can run the length of the pitch in 10 seconds.

 

[Dctarget]

Curious, when has Australia in say, the last 20 years had the fastest backs on the park?

I'd also say, you're better off getting blokes who have fast acceleration rather than top end speed. Most of the line breaks come from being able to create that initial bit of room and not giving it to a bloke who can run the length of the pitch in 10 seconds.

Koroibete & Daugunu I reckon would be up there. Ioane's pace is unbelievable though.

 

[eastman]

Curious, when has Australia in say, the last 20 years had the fastest backs on the park?

I'd also say, you're better off getting blokes who have fast acceleration rather than top end speed. Most of the line breaks come from being able to create that initial bit of room and not giving it to a bloke who can run the length of the pitch in 10 seconds.

I'll pay that acceleration is more important than top end speed in rugby but either way we don't have enough of that in the current team.

We might not have had the 'fastest' outside backs traditionally but they were still 'rugby fast' and top tier - Kellaway, Hodge and most of our current backs are absolute slugs in comparison.

 

[Joe Blow]

Because many, Many, MANY rugby people in Australia think the fix is just picking the right coach they like, or player they like, or get an administrator from the school THEY went to.

A lot of people - some of them in the hierarchy - don't want to look at the systemic issues, because that requires effort and time.

No doubt Fitzy that we need to open up the pathways and make them more attractive and accessible, absolutely. However, a bloke like Vunivalu has very good rugby instinct. He is aware of where space is or might come available and looks to take good options based on that instinct. He doesn’t kick the pill away or run back into the defence. Give him ball with a little space and most likely he will turn it into something. He has, dare I say it, All Black type skills. Players like him can certainly help our cause in the short term while RA addresses the grass roots issues.

 

[KiwiM]

Curious, when has Australia in say, the last 20 years had the fastest backs on the park?

I'd also say, you're better off getting blokes who have fast acceleration rather than top end speed. Most of the line breaks come from being able to create that initial bit of room and not giving it to a bloke who can run the length of the pitch in 10 seconds.

Yep. Cameron Clark comes to mind an example of this. He was even faster than Ioane over long distances (ran him down Blues v Tahs at Brookvale) but unless he got put into situations where he could use his straight line speed it wasn't that impactful in XVs.

 

[RebelYell]

Naivalu was insanely fast before he got too bulky

 

[formerflanker]

I'll pay that acceleration is more important than top end speed in rugby but either way we don't have enough of that in the current team.

We might not have had the 'fastest' outside backs traditionally but they were still 'rugby fast' and top tier - Kellaway, Hodge and most of our current backs are absolute slugs in comparison.

I saw a good example of that in the NRL on the weekend. Ryan Papenhuyzen was running a support line at about 1/2 pace through the centre when the ball career made a break.
Ryan dropped into what looked like a sprinter's starting position (still running of course) and exploded into full speed.
Got the ball, try time.
Pure acceleration. Yes it is genetic but does require good coaching.

 

[Up the Guts]

The linebreaks weren't really the issue were they? McDermott carved them up through the middle, must have made 3 or 4 linebreaks in the second half. The issue, as it has been for a while, is capitalising on opportunities. A big part of that is the lack of support for the player who has made a line break, the other issue is taking the wrong option once the player who made the break is brought to ground. For some reason we seem to prefer to take a settler play off the back of a break rather than identifying the space wider. We also have zero patience, the cross-field kick the second we have advantage is so low percentage. Bring that out once we've tried and failed to break the line.

Unrelatedly, not sure we have the luxury of being able to bench top quality athletes like Vunivalu and Petaia.

 

[Bullrush]

Koroibete really cost the Wallabies just before half-time with his crawl over the line. He was never close and it cost the team a rare attacking opportunity right at the line with a silly attempt really.

 

[Derpus]

Koroibete really cost the Wallabies just before half-time with his crawl over the line. He was never close and it cost the team a rare attacking opportunity right at the line with a silly attempt really.

His miss on Akira was pretty horrendous, too. There was nothing on. Defence was numbered up and all they had to do was drift a little and make their regulation tackles.

Instead he shoots up and gets stepped with consumate ease opening up a stroll to the try line.

I think he gets fed up with the gross incompetence around him and tries to make things happen himself.

 

[Bullrush]

His miss on Akira was pretty horrendous, too. There was nothing on. Defence was numbered up and all they had to do was drift a little and make their regulation tackles.

Instead he shoots up and gets stepped with consumate ease opening up a stroll to the try line.

I think he gets fed up with the gross incompetence around him and tries to make things happen himself.

Yeah - I get the feeling that he gets a bit frustrated and tries to do it all. I'm just re-watching the game.

 

[eastman]

His miss on Akira was pretty horrendous, too. There was nothing on. Defence was numbered up and all they had to do was drift a little and make their regulation tackles.

Instead he shoots up and gets stepped with consumate ease opening up a stroll to the try line.

I think he gets fed up with the gross incompetence around him and tries to make things happen himself.

You've got some interesting really interesting takes.

Koribete's never been known for his nous - he commits to everything at 100% whether it's the right option or not.

He made a number of bad reads over the weekend which led directly and indirectly to tries - the bloke needs a rest for next week and we need to either give Vunivalu a shot or play Wright back into form.

 

[Bullrush]

You've got some interesting really interesting takes.

Koribete's never been known for his nous - he commits to everything at 100% whether it's the right option or not.

He made a number of bad reads over the weekend which led directly and indirectly to tries - the bloke needs a rest for next week and we need to either give Vunivalu a shot or play Wright back into form.

Nous is something he can learn though. For me, this is the problem with Australian rugby in general.

In the last 10yrs, we haven't seen players continuing to develop and improve. Guys like QC (Quade Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Nic White, Skelton, Koroibete etc get to a certain level and then just stop. They don't seem to go from being really really good players to great players. Or they don't develop a consistency at Test level. Genia was considered among the world's best half-backs for about 1 or 2 seasons but for some reason, either couldn't keep the consistency or keep improving.

Not every player can do that and I'm not sayin every AB does it either cos there are many who don't but it seems that it happens way too much in Australia. I'm trying to think of players who became even better after making the Wallabies and for me, Scott Fardy is the only one who comes to mind.

It's as if the Wallaby jersey is the destination and once they get there, too many players stop on the journey to being great.

I like the look of some of this current team - even the players you guys hate. There is no quick fix or silver bullets for the Wallabies. This is gonna take some time and patience and mistakes but I think the games against Argentina are the ones to really watch to see who is worth persisting with.

 

[PhilClinton]

Bullrush - I agree with the comments regarding going to the next level etc but I think it’s more the fact that these blokes simply are never going to be as good as many hope.

You mentioned around 10 blokes who’ve played in the last few years who ‘didn’t keep going‘ but let’s be serious, there is no chance the team was going to have a bunch of generational players come through one after the other, the talent pool for rugby isn’t that deep in Australia. It’s not so much about giving up once they get to gold, it’s more that they’ve reached their peak.

Look at the NRL, heaps more players in their pool over the years yet still only 8 ‘immortals’ (I think or maybe 9?).

 

[eastman]

Nous is something he can learn though. For me, this is the problem with Australian rugby in general.

In the last 10yrs, we haven't seen players continuing to develop and improve. Guys like QC (Quade Cooper), JOC (James O'Connor), Beale, Nic White, Skelton, Koroibete etc get to a certain level and then just stop. They don't seem to go from being really really good players to great players. Or they don't develop a consistency at Test level. Genia was considered among the world's best half-backs for about 1 or 2 seasons but for some reason, either couldn't keep the consistency or keep improving.

Not every player can do that and I'm not sayin every AB does it either cos there are many who don't but it seems that it happens way too much in Australia. I'm trying to think of players who became even better after making the Wallabies and for me, Scott Fardy is the only one who comes to mind.

It's as if the Wallaby jersey is the destination and once they get there, too many players stop on the journey to being great.

I like the look of some of this current team - even the players you guys hate. There is no quick fix or silver bullets for the Wallabies. This is gonna take some and patience and mistakes but I think the games against Argentina are the ones to really watch to see who is worth persisting with.

I completely agree with the sentiment but not sure if it applies directly to Koribete.

For a tenured professional rugby player his skillset is pretty limited for an outside back - apart from the strong foundations of run hard/ tackle hard (to be fair he didn't need to do more than this during the NRL). I can't see him ever becoming a rounded kicking, passing or even option-taking player.

Koribete is a great athlete but he's not a great footballer - I don't know if that's poor coaching or that he just didn't play enough of the sport growing up to pick up the intricacies.