Bledisloe III at Perth, 5/09/21 - 4pm AEST

[KiwiM]

Pretty sure that was Ikitau missing A Ioane? Noah made his share of mistakes but shouldn;t be pinned for this one.

Koroibete and Ikitau both missed Akira before Noah. As Derpus mentions, Akira fakes a flick pass dummy which has Noah caught in two minds and ultimately in no man's land - it wasn't a case of Noah not wanting to put the body on the line.

 

[Joe Blow]

I understand why they start Allan A. But surely they should be starting TT. His go forward and set piece give us the best opportunity to lay down a marker. The All Blacks have basically nullified his scrum advantage late in the game by doing the same and bringing on front rowers to match. He should be playing the bulk of the minutes with AAA in the support role. Also make sure that they give him a decent hooker to assure he goes well. Sending him on late with Lonergan just seems to be completely counter productive cancelling out any advantage he might bring.
If your scrum goes in the last quarter it really puts you on the back foot and offers up easy points against. AAA and Bell are quality, particularly late in the game.

 

[Up the Guts]

The game has basically been over by the time Tupou has come on in all three tests. Impact from the bench doesn't mean much if the game is already lost.

 

[Rugby Head]

Sending him on late with Lonergan just seems to be completely counter productive cancelling out any advantage he might bring.
If your scrum goes in the last quarter it really puts you on the back foot and offers up easy points against. AAA and Bell are quality, particularly late in the game.

Too be honest, I don't know how Longergan gets a look in. He's the third choice hooker at the Brumbies and looks completely out of his depth. Give him another 2 years of Super Rugby.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

Imagine if the following squad had four years of full time rugby to upskill:

1. Allan Ala'alatoa
2. ?
3. Taniela Tupou
4. Tino Faasuamaleaui
5. Payne Haas
6. Angus Crichton
7. Michael Hooper
8. David Fifita
9. McDermott
10. Nathan Cleary
11. Ryan Papenhuyzen
12. Cameron Munster
13. Lattrel Mitchell
14. Tom Trbojevic
15. James Tedesco

16. Junior Paulo
17. ?
18. Angus Bell
19. Will Skelton
20. Harry Wilson
21. Harry Grant
22. Cameron Murray
23. Aldo-Carr

Even then, there are literally dozens of players I'd take in a heartbeat that I've left out.

They would genuinely trounce the Wallabies. Across the board they are simply far better athletes, far more professional and far more talented.

A boy can dream.

Sad.

I'm not totally convinced about the quality of some of these league players if they were playing at the elite rep level week in, week out. Many of these players are in the NSW league team who have lost to a weak Queensland league team 3 times in the last 6 games. Plus when they play for Australia in league, they don't look miles ahead of the NZ league team, which is miles behind the quality of the NZ rugby team.

 

[upthereds#!]

Dan McKellar on Noah L.

“I’m really proud of Noah. We’ve just got to understand he’s finding his feet at this level. It’s rare for any player, look at Richie Mo'unga, he’s not the same from 5 years ago so we have to be patient to develop and get them to the level as soon as we can.”

Its true what he says about Richie Mounga but he was finding his feet from the bench and sometimes from within the squad but not the game day 23. Test footy is no place to find your feet. Thats what Super Rugby is for and then being in and around the squad, leading up to game time from the bench and then eventually starting if you demand it.
I understand we are short in this position but once again, it is such a key position and it requires a certain level of experience in the game at the highest level. Noah has done well but what happens if after or during this RC he is discarded having been regarded as a failure? Not fair on him. Play JOC (James O'Connor) or Hodge or recall Foley or Cooper with Noah getting limited game time.

Exactly right.

Mounga is a story of how it should be done, it doesn't reinforce Lolesios path, it counters it.

Mounga wasn't in the full crusaders squad until he was 21/22 and he got that chance, plus being thrust into the starting 10 jersey because guys like Slade, Taylor and Carter moved on.

He didn't get a Test cap until a mid week game v france when he was 23.

At 24 he pushed past and became the standard backup for Barrett then at 25 became regular starter (but with Barrett on the field most the time also)

Now 27 and will be the worlds best 10 at 29 at the next WC.

Little bit different then Mckellars narrative of 'get them there as fast as we can"

 

[formerflanker]

Imagine if the following squad had four years of full time rugby to upskill:

1. Allan Ala'alatoa
2. ?
3. Taniela Tupou
4. Tino Faasuamaleaui
5. Payne Haas
6. Angus Crichton
7. Michael Hooper
8. David Fifita
9. McDermott
10. Nathan Cleary
11. Ryan Papenhuyzen
12. Cameron Munster
13. Lattrel Mitchell
14. Tom Trbojevic
15. James Tedesco

16. Junior Paulo
17. ?
18. Angus Bell
19. Will Skelton
20. Harry Wilson
21. Harry Grant
22. Cameron Murray
23. Aldo-Carr

Even then, there are literally dozens of players I'd take in a heartbeat that I've left out.

They would genuinely trounce the Wallabies. Across the board they are simply far better athletes, far more professional and far more talented.

A boy can dream.

Sad.

That looks just like The Scots College model of creating a successful rugby dynasty.
Step 1. Build an incredibly successful side immediately with an astute recruitment program. This drives enthusiasm for the sport from sponsors, supporters, volunteers, and importantly, new players.
Step 2. Simultaneously, build a vast grass roots program that fully funds training equipment, teams and their kit, coaching resources, an expansion into State schools, access to big games, promotion in the media and so on.

Slightly expensive though. An old bloke can dream too. I'm starting to feel all David Lord-ish.
(PS Brian To'o for hooker.)

 

[formerflanker]

Too be honest, I don't know how Longergan gets a look in. He's the third choice hooker at the Brumbies and looks completely out of his depth. Give him another 2 years of Super Rugby.

His inability to pull up his socks is a symptom of his unreadiness for Test level rugby.

 

[MarkJ]

His inability to pull up his socks is a symptom of his unreadiness for Test level rugby.

 

[Slim 293]

Too be honest, I don't know how Longergan gets a look in. He's the third choice hooker at the Brumbies and looks completely out of his depth. Give him another 2 years of Super Rugby.

For a guy who’s supposedly third choice, he certainly played a lot of Super Rugby TT…

 

[Slim 293]

Exactly right.

Mounga is a story of how it should be done, it doesn't reinforce Lolesios path, it counters it.

Mounga wasn't in the full crusaders squad until he was 21/22 and he got that chance, plus being thrust into the starting 10 jersey because guys like Slade, Taylor and Carter moved on.

He didn't get a Test cap until a mid week game v france when he was 23.

At 24 he pushed past and became the standard backup for Barrett then at 25 became regular starter (but with Barrett on the field most the time also)

Now 27 and will be the worlds best 10 at 29 at the next WC.

Little bit different then Mckellars narrative of 'get them there as fast as we can"

I’m not sure if that was the narrative………



I’m also certain that Lolesio’s introduction into test rugby would have also been more gradual had there been any other capable, experienced options available.

McKellar was also not in the Wallabies coaching setup when Lolesio ran out for his test debut last year against the All Blacks in his debut professional season.

 

[Braveheart81]

Rennie was also not in the Wallabies coaching setup when Lolesio ran out for his test debut last year against the All Blacks in his debut professional season.

McKellar?

 

[Slim 293]

McKellar?

No sleep..........

I probably should've picked up on it when autocorrect tried to enter "Debbie."

 

[Bullrush]

Exactly right.

Mounga is a story of how it should be done, it doesn't reinforce Lolesios path, it counters it.

Mounga wasn't in the full crusaders squad until he was 21/22 and he got that chance, plus being thrust into the starting 10 jersey because guys like Slade, Taylor and Carter moved on.

He didn't get a Test cap until a mid week game v france when he was 23.

At 24 he pushed past and became the standard backup for Barrett then at 25 became regular starter (but with Barrett on the field most the time also)

Now 27 and will be the worlds best 10 at 29 at the next WC.

Little bit different then Mckellars narrative of 'get them there as fast as we can"

Again, who is Lolesio going to sit on the bench behind at Test level right now?

QC (Quade Cooper) - the most experience and has played Test rugby against all the best teams with wins as well. But hasn't played ANY top level rugby for what? 3yrs?
To'omua - is hardly Test experienced at 10 and hasn't shown any kind of form at 10 to really 'learn' from.
Hodge - even less experience than To'omua.
JOC (James O'Connor) - has never been considered a Test 10 and is only there now due to lack of options left.

When you figure in the facts that on one side of him is a guy with 7 Tests and on the other side is a guy who has 30-odd caps but is playing his first Test in 2yrs and another 4 Test guy outside of that, faaaark.

Comparing Mo'unga with Lolesio is just not fair

 

[Braveheart81]

I would select Hodge until JOC (James O'Connor) is healthy.

Hodge has played 48 tests. Few of them have been at 10 but he's an experienced player who is calm under pressure. The biggest thing the Wallabies need right now is to simplify things and take good options.

We should be playing more direct and that is something Hodge brings.

It isn't reasonable to expect more of Lolesio. It also provides little benefit to continue selecting him when it isn't really working. He's getting worse as the test season goes on, not better.

For a guy in his second season as a professional he's now up to a fairly large number of high intensity games.

 

[Rugby Head]

For a guy who’s supposedly third choice, he certainly played a lot of Super Rugby TT…

Injuries to FF (Folau Fainga'a) and McInnery.....

 

[eastman]

I'm not totally convinced about the quality of some of these league players if they were playing at the elite rep level week in, week out. Many of these players are in the NSW league team who have lost to a weak Queensland league team 3 times in the last 6 games. Plus when they play for Australia in league, they don't look miles ahead of the NZ league team, which is miles behind the quality of the NZ rugby team.

Some of the selections are debatable (Payne Haas in the second-row for an example) but there is absolutely no doubt that the likes of Mitchell, Trobjecvic and Munster are superior athletes and footballers to most of our guys - for what it's worth I reckon Jack Wighton would be an absolute superstar at inside centre in union.

Regardless the strength in league is the depth across the competition - if Trobjevic goes down then Kalyn Ponga or Valentine Holmes comes into the discussion.

Also the only reason why the NZ team is competitive with the Kangaroos is because they generally only have a week or so in camp together before games, making the occasional upset possible. If they had weeks of training to form combinations and (like the Wallabies do) - it would not be a contest

 

[eastman]

I would select Hodge until JOC (James O'Connor) is healthy.

Hodge has played 48 tests. Few of them have been at 10 but he's an experienced player who is calm under pressure. The biggest thing the Wallabies need right now is to simplify things and take good options.

We should be playing more direct and that is something Hodge brings.

It isn't reasonable to expect more of Lolesio. It also provides little benefit to continue selecting him when it isn't really working. He's getting worse as the test season goes on, not better.

For a guy in his second season as a professional he's now up to a fairly large number of high intensity games.

Drew Mitchell nailed it on the weekend during commentary - Hodge is ball distributor not a ball player.

He can pass the ball under structure and clear instructions but he's not identifying mismatches and seeing space- maybe that's enough for the Wallabies in 2021?

 

[Slim 293]

Injuries to FF (Folau Fainga'a) and McInnery...

Nope.

McInerney returned to the squad for Super Rugby TT........

Lonergan started ahead of both of them in two matches.

 

[Braveheart81]

Drew Mitchell nailed it on the weekend during commentary - Hodge is ball distributor not a ball player.

He can pass the ball under structure and clear instructions but he's not identifying mismatches and seeing space- maybe that's enough for the Wallabies in 2021?

Lolesio isn't doing that either.

Hodge at least identified that the opportunities were through short passes and punching it up closer to the ruck.

I also don't think he would have kicked for the corner rather than putting it through the hands to put our best player against a tight head prop in space.

We don't need a 10 to do anything amazing right now. We just need them to be solid.