Bledisloe # 3 - Saturday 31st October, ANZ Stadium

[molman]

JOC (James O'Connor) also goes back in defence to become our second fullback. Problem was that Lolesio has nowhere near JOCs pace or positional awareness back there and he was exposed several times. He was all at sea back there. I have concerns about his lack of pace.

I was thinking the same. I don't think there was any change to the defensive structure on account of Noah. Like others observed JOC (James O'Connor) had been dropping back in defence also. In fact I'd find it highly doubtful that they would be changing the system a lot at this stage when they'd likely been trying hard to embed the compressed rush defence that Tatsey has them performing. Someone live at the game could probably comment more as the telecast doesn't always give the wide shot to clearly see the setup.



The issue to my eyes was more one of execution with two games on the All Blacks having done their homework and utilising many of the obvious tools that work so well against such a structure. Chip/kicks into the space behind, moving it quickly to the fringes, reloading quickly to fracture the formation and create some mismatches ... etc.. etc.. the honest truth is that the Wallabies just weren't good enough and the All Blacks got a lot of pay for what really should have been expected. JOC (James O'Connor) and To'omua would have seen the picture before, the young-ins to my mind just didn't have the experience to adjust and rally both tactically and mentally.

 

[Drew]

As far as Lolesio dropping back in defence, surely that’s so that we have two players and a running winger capable of kicking the ball back instead of two running wingers and a kicker. In years past we’d have a Joe Roff, Andrew Walker or Chris Latham on one wing, those guys could kick and perform their wing duties.

 

[molman]

Too soon? Probably. If he’s 18 yo now, that puts him at 21 yo for World Cup contention. Will Harrison my next man up.

I don't think Harrison is ready either for the step up, though longterm I feel like he may be a more natural 10 than Lolesio. In that Argie trial he still has the same challenge of fluctuating through a game. Honestly both him and Noah needed more time in Super Rugby and ideally some more games against the NZ franchises with probably an introduction against a Tier 2 country, or at the very least not NZ.

 

[molman]

As far as Lolesio dropping back in defence, surely that’s so that we have two players and a running winger capable of kicking the ball back instead of two running wingers and a kicker. In years past we’d have a Joe Roff, Andrew Walker or Chris Latham on one wing, those guys could kick and perform their wing duties.

Could be. Lots of countries use different variations of. It's partially why like some mentioned Kafer's comments were unhelpful and if anything illuminate more of his lack of insight to modern defensive structures than anything else, or just a laziness to actually step up his analysis.

 

[Joe Blow]

As far as Lolesio dropping back in defence, surely that’s so that we have two players and a running winger capable of kicking the ball back instead of two running wingers and a kicker. In years past we’d have a Joe Roff, Andrew Walker or Chris Latham on one wing, those guys could kick and perform their wing duties.

If you are running two out and out speedsters on the wings, as we were, then you need a bloke like JOC (James O'Connor) to become the second fullback in defence. For Daugunu everything in the 1st test turn to gold. Last night it was the opposite. I think we will see Tom Wright come in at his expense next week.

 

[molman]

If you are running two out and out speedsters on the wings, as we were, then you need a bloke like JOC (James O'Connor) to become the second fullback in defence. For Daugunu everything in the 1st test turn to gold. Last night it was the opposite. I think we will see Tom Wright come in at his expense next week.

Don't know that I agree. I'd probably preservere with Daugunu. Without a doubt he had a poor game, but as a player he still has a lot of potential. I'd save Wright for the Argie game, along with Maddocks who I think is starting to look in good form.

 

[Cancelled Account]

I don't think Harrison is ready either for the step up, though longterm I feel like he may be a more natural 10 than Lolesio. In that Argie trial he still has the same challenge of fluctuating through a game. Honestly both him and Noah needed more time in Super Rugby and ideally some more games against the NZ franchises with probably an introduction against a Tier 2 country, or at the very least not NZ.

I haven’t watched the game from Friday, and have read that Harrison wasn’t on form. I have seen Harrison play a perfectly executed game then the following week plays like shite. He needs to find consistency in all areas of his game. I’m a fan of his traditional style and his skill set but agree that he needs to work on consistency before elevating him the the Wallabies 23 team. On paper he’s my preference moving forward. Gordon going to the Rebels next year will give us an idea where he sits in the pecking. A big fan of his style and skill set but injuries have been a concern.

 

[Lorenzo]

Could be. Lots of countries use different variations of. It's partially why like some mentioned Kafer's comments were unhelpful and if anything illuminate more of his lack of insight to modern defensive structures than anything else, or just a laziness to actually step up his analysis.

The commentators are very reluctant to directly criticise any of the players. When they do, it needs to be wrapped up golden sheaf style banter: "he's have an absolute 'mare!!" or this-is-a-one-off style apologism: "9 times out of 10 he makes that tackle" or "just not his night".

This way they can all stay friends.

So his comments about that strategy are probably the most insightful he can make.

 

[sendit]

I don't think Harrison is ready either for the step up, though longterm I feel like he may be a more natural 10 than Lolesio. In that Argie trial he still has the same challenge of fluctuating through a game. Honestly both him and Noah needed more time in Super Rugby and ideally some more games against the NZ franchises with probably an introduction against a Tier 2 country, or at the very least not NZ.

I would’ve liked if both of them had a year or two in ITM cup, it seems to be such a good breeding ground for further development of super players. I think we could have soldiered on without them in the Wallabies for at least another year

 

[Hammeroid]

The first NZ try still baffles me. Go watch it again. Literally ever Wallabies forward run across from the maul to the ruck without looking forward to see who they were marking.The all black forwards just stand still and create a huge overlap even with the yellow card. These are the mistakes that shouldn't be made.

 

[Slim 293]

The first NZ try still baffles me. Go watch it again. Literally ever Wallabies forward run across from the maul to the ruck without looking forward to see who they were marking.The all black forwards just stand still and create a huge overlap even with the yellow card. These are the mistakes that shouldn't be made.

Yep, was it White as the one defender standing there dumbfounded screaming at the others to come across?

Truly amateur stuff.........

 

[Slim 293]

Also, how good are the All Blacks at setting up and defending mauls?

What a concept.........

 

[Up the Guts]

A Fox Sports graphic came up around the 55 minute mark with % of ad line made at over 60 for the Wallabies and around 50 for NZ. Really just shows how much the error rate and poor defensive decisions cost us. It wasn't a drubbing where we were going backwards all night.

 

[wamberal]

Also, how good are the All Blacks at setting up and defending mauls?

What a concept...

Their domestic competition is lot tougher than ours, that might be part of the reason.

 

[molman]

The first NZ try still baffles me. Go watch it again. Literally ever Wallabies forward run across from the maul to the ruck without looking forward to see who they were marking.The all black forwards just stand still and create a huge overlap even with the yellow card. These are the mistakes that shouldn't be made.

Even before that, if MK hadn't shot up on Mo'unga, they had BB in the pocket and Jordie out on their right (our left) wing with DHP floating between them. If MK'd been 1/2 a second slower Mo'unga gets the pass away and for all money Jordie is sliding into the corner after his brother floats one out to him.

Instead a phase later the whole team rushes to the left of the ruck and leaves our right wing with barely a Wallaby defending (I count about 7 All Blacks on that side of the ruck and about 3 Wallabies, with the reverse on our left wing with about 7 Wallabies lined up against about 3 All Blacks). Now I don't know who was doing the talking out there but it looked to me like White may have been calling the team across as he stands at the back of the ruck after the MK tackle, gesturing players across. He then looks right, seems to realise and sprints across. Big Karl almost has a brain fart and blows a certain try by not passing, but the wet pitch saves him as he slides over.

The thing that annoyed me the most was even after the stuff up, a bunch of the Wallabies were trotting back - Simone, Haningan, DHP etc... as they looked across to the play to the right.

Now I really don't know what was going on, because it was just so bad as to be almost comical. I can only think there was something seriously wrong with the teams comms out there coupled with players so in their shell they weren't even heads up enough to count their man. Maybe the team was just so use to JOC (James O'Connor)/To'omua being the dominate voices out there that there was a serious void.

 

[Dctarget]

Any news on LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)?

 

[Froggy]

Most has already been said, but I generally don't think our forwards were too bad, not dominant but competitive, and certainly gave the backs something to work with. The backs, however, were awful, I think the only one to emerge reputation intact was McDermott for his cameo. Their defence was poor, but the big deal was the fact they kept giving the ball back to the AB's. Whether it was poor passes, losing it in contact, attempted miracle passes or mindless kicks, they kept finding a way to do it. They simply lacked the necessary experience for test rugby. I accept Rennie's hand was forced to a point, but he rolled the dice and came up with a pair of ones. 20 year old debutantes, if they are ready (and some clearly weren't) need to have their first couple of tests between a couple of old heads. How much easier for Lolesio would it have been with Hunt and Kuridrani outside him. That's the trouble with picking purely on immediate past form at a lower level, you don't know who will and who won't make the step up. With someone like TK, sure he was down on Super form, but you know he'll step up to the next level.

Just a word on Petaia, this kid has incredible talent, but he must learn to respect possession. And that wasn't on show just last night, it's been ongoing, it's just the AB's are good enough to make the consequences more severe. Fix that, and we have the makings of a truly great centre.

 

[Brumby Runner]

A quick summary. ABs were too big, too fast, too strong and far more individually skilled.

Now some of detail.

Slipper was immense. Huge workload and made his tackles hurt (or so it looked).

AAA much stronger in the tight stuff than TT.

LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) was having a very strong game before he was injured. Philip quieter than in the earlier tests.

Wilson is great in defense but unable to break the line or make ground in contact with the ball. Neither Hanigan nor Hooper gave him much support in that regard.

White meh but had been good up til now. Tate looks almost ready for test level but his passing to support players left a lot to be desired.

Lolesio started poorly but was looking more comfortable when he was replaced. Hardest debut imaginable but Harrison must come in next week if JOC (James O'Connor) is unavailable just to see if he can provide more in a similar situation.

Simone was steady in his debut and should retain the 12 spot. Paisami seems to be the alternative but he just doesn't covert possession enough.

Petaia showed he will be a star.

One of Koroibete and Daugunu has to go. Too similar and neither has displayed they have a rugby brain, mostly operating on Instinct. Because he is well a card magnet Daugunu should make way for Wright.

DHP did nothing more than Banks did in the first two tests, and didn't handle the high ball as well as Tom. Maddocks for next week.

The backrow is still our biggest problem imo. Naisarani should have been there from the beginning and the lineout will not be corrected while Michael Hooper stays at 7.

Rennie has made his share of errors too. Omitting Naisarani, Dempsey, Kuridrani and Neville initially was wrong but making the alterations after the first test simply sent the wrong message to his players. As did his comments about perform or be replaced.

 

[molman]

Most has already been said, but I generally don't think our forwards were too bad, not dominant but competitive, and certainly gave the backs something to work with. The backs, however, were awful, I think the only one to emerge reputation intact was McDermott for his cameo. Their defence was poor, but the big deal was the fact they kept giving the ball back to the AB's. Whether it was poor passes, losing it in contact, attempted miracle passes or mindless kicks, they kept finding a way to do it. They simply lacked the necessary experience for test rugby. I accept Rennie's hand was forced to a point, but he rolled the dice and came up with a pair of ones. 20 year old debutantes, if they are ready (and some clearly weren't) need to have their first couple of tests between a couple of old heads. How much easier for Lolesio would it have been with Hunt and Kuridrani outside him. That's the trouble with picking purely on immediate past form at a lower level, you don't know who will and who won't make the step up. With someone like TK, sure he was down on Super form, but you know he'll step up to the next level.

Just a word on Petaia, this kid has incredible talent, but he must learn to respect possession. And that wasn't on show just last night, it's been ongoing, it's just the AB's are good enough to make the consequences more severe. Fix that, and we have the makings of a truly great centre.


I agree. I rewatched the game (why I really don't know) and as you observed the forwards weren't too bad beyond the lineout which we are just not competitive in, though to be fair at least it wasn't a real liability. Uelese had some pretty dismal throws in the 2H. Our mauls also need work too, the All Blacks well and truely shut down that aspect of our game.



Even a player like Hanigan wasn't poor, they just honestly didn't get a lot of ball and we barely strung a handful of phases together. Him, Wilson and Hooper did a lot of tackling and didn't miss too many.


The stats show that the backs turned over the ball all night. Some maturity from the likes of a TK and Hunt would probably have gone fair way to shore things up, though neither of them had a notable Super Rugby campaign this year. Dungunu just kept trying too hard after his early lapses and compounded things. Just no respect for possession. Noah was even worst on second viewing, some of his passing, decision making was just poor coupled with poor kicks. The occasion really got to him which is a shame because he can be better. Missing touch with that penalty kick was just icing on a rather lacking performance. Simone in the first half was dismal too, but did improve in the 2H.


Petaia worries me with how he throws himself around, I just always get the feeling he is a tackle away from another injury.


McDermott was alright. Though he's quick to the base, his passes are still a little slow to the man and he floats the odd one too high so they're grabbing above shoulders. His decision making around when and where to run also needs a little work but overall he didn't do anything to lower his reputation like many of the other backs and you could see the cohesion with players like McReight and Piasami out there which I felt worked well.. He made about three tackles and missed one or two to my count. I'd like to see him get a start so we can see a little more of how he goes against a fresh defensive line. I think longterm he could be a notable 9.

 

[KOB1987]

I've just driven 4 hours to get home and to say I am deflated and disappointed is an understatement. It's a pretty expensive exercise for me so I can't do it too many times a year, and due to covid and a lack of alternatives I singled this game out for the annual family rugby experience. I'm not going to go to all that effort to sit in the cheap seats up the back, so the 4 tickets were pretty expensive, then there's a 2 bedroom apartment on an 'event weekend', plus fuel, meals and 2 days out of my life. And the whole purpose was for entertainment, but it was far from that. TBH I actually now wish I targeted the game v the Pumas at Bankwest, at least we might win that one.

Not having a go at the players, they can only play as good as they can, but I can understand why the public are tuning out. Something has to change, maybe just a simple home and away Bledisloe series is a good start, and schedule more games v teams in the 4-10 band, where we sit in the middle of.