Bledisloe 1 - Saturday 18 August 2018 - ANZ Stadium, Sydney

[TSR]

I thought last night was worse to be honest.

I expected progress. If anything we regressed.

 

[Up the Guts]

IMO last night was amongst the worst performances I’ve seen. It was like the players hadn’t trained together.

Certainly how quickly everything broke down was pretty awful. Still a lot of NZ's tries (at least 4) were from counter attack (that's not to diminish them) and it would have been worse if our defence had not worked at all (as it did last year in Bledislode I).

 

[Rebels3]

At the end of the day the set piece was poo and our convoluted first phase moves off set piece killed us more than any other aspect.

 

[TSR]

Yeah - but at least last year there was a clear and obvious failing in that we employed a ridiculous defensive system. Arguably last year was worse from the point of view of the coaches employing a strategy that rank amateurs could see was flawed.

Last night there is no clear identifiable underlying cause. I think it was quite reasonable to expect our team to be clearly improved on last year’s efforts. Our scrum was shit, our lineout dire and defence in the second half appeared to be optional. Apart from 1-2 good punts, our kicking game was diabolical. The fact that Foley is still our clear best 10 by some distances says it all. We did actually make 3-4 reasonable opportunities which we promptly butchered.

Again - I thought last night was worse than last year, but maybe it is just fresher in the mind.

 

[Strewthcobber]

It was 6-40 at half time last year. Much worse

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[TSR]

And, yet, we actually lost by less in the end.

Anyway, we’re splitting hairs really. Both performances were shit. I thought last nights was worse/more disappointing. If others didn’t, I get that.

 

[Quick Hands]

And, yet, we actually lost by less in the end.

Anyway, we’re splitting hairs really. Both performances were shit. I thought last nights was worse/more disappointing. If others didn’t, I get that.

What was worse about last night is that at half-time we were still in the game. We made the unforgiveable error in conceding tries either side of half time and from there it wasn't even a contest.

I've never been able to work out why Australian sides consistently have problems with scrums and lineouts - you'd think they are two facets of the game which can be practiced ad nauseum until they're right.

I find that announcing that we are going to run the ball from everywhere, no matter what the circumstances, because that's how we want to play the game to be strange.

We've seemingly gone from Robbie Deans "play what's in front of you" to "we're going to do this no matter what's in front of us"

Logic suggests that there's a compromise somewhere between the two that would work better and be more successful.

 

[Gnostic]

What was worse about last night is that at half-time we were still in the game. We made the unforgiveable error in conceding tries either side of half time and from there it wasn't even a contest.



I've never been able to work out why Australian sides consistently have problems with scrums and lineouts - you'd think they are two facets of the game which can be practiced ad nauseum until they're right.



I find that announcing that we are going to run the ball from everywhere, no matter what the circumstances, because that's how we want to play the game to be strange.



We've seemingly gone from Robbie Deans "play what's in front of you" to "we're going to do this no matter what's in front of us"



Logic suggests that there's a compromise somewhere between the two that would work better and be more successful.

There is no evidence to suggest that professional players in Australia practice any individual skill ad nauseum let alone a team skill like set piece work. I have been wonder for years what Professional players actually do with their time when they have worse skills in aggregate than their amateur contemporaries. They obviously spend a lot more time in the gym and are fitter than the old blokes who worked for a living, but not a single one of them is a better player of the game than the old elites.

 

[ACT Crusader]

What was worse about last night is that at half-time we were still in the game. We made the unforgiveable error in conceding tries either side of half time and from there it wasn't even a contest.

I've never been able to work out why Australian sides consistently have problems with scrums and lineouts - you'd think they are two facets of the game which can be practiced ad nauseum until they're right.

I find that announcing that we are going to run the ball from everywhere, no matter what the circumstances, because that's how we want to play the game to be strange.

We've seemingly gone from Robbie Deans "play what's in front of you" to "we're going to do this no matter what's in front of us"

Logic suggests that there's a compromise somewhere between the two that would work better and be more successful.

On the “running the ball” issue, I’ve always thought that was more PR then anything concrete strategy wise. Trying to win the hearts and minds of a competitive sporting market by saying we are going to play and play an attractive brand so come and watch us play this thing called running rugby!

 

[Dan54]

I wonder how many watched the interviews etc after the game. I noticed that Hooper only called the ABs the Kiwis, and Chieka said New Zealanders, it seemed to be back to the 'let's not call them the All Blacks' thing they talked about a few years back. If it is that and the ABs are in their heads that much, I not sure that works.
I also noted Rob Simmons and a couple of others seek out Whitelock to congrat him on his 100thchatting on field test ( very good), and was also pleased to see Whitelock seemingly doing the same with Folau under the stand where he went and shook his hand before he left for the hospital. just little sideline things I noticed that make me glad I follow this game. And that includes seeing Hooper/Perenara, Pocock /Cane etc etc chatting on field after the the presentations!

 

[fatprop]

There is no evidence to suggest that professional players in Australia practice any individual skill ad nauseum let alone a team skill like set piece work. I have been wonder for years what Professional players actually do with their time when they have worse skills in aggregate than their amateur contemporaries. They obviously spend a lot more time in the gym and are fitter than the old blokes who worked for a living, but not a single one of them is a better player of the game than the old elites.

Actually there is evidence, but the ABs are improving as well

 

[gel]

^^^^^Hahahahaha!

 

[aeneas]

Retallick was outstanding. Ian Jones against the World 15 like for much of the match for those of you old enough to remember that.

Surely someone in Ryan Crotty's life has to get him to retire. 7 concussions in 15 months. CTE is not something to be mucked around with.
Wobs will be better next week (surely). Any chance that Chekia goes back to playing an actual #8 rather than two #7's, the scrum is getting depowered. Maddock looks like a good player.

 

[fatprop]

^^^^^Hahahahaha!

The premise that a group of amateurs have better skills than the pros is a fantasy.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[aeneas]

Also. Pocock was very classy in stopping playing to look after Crotty.

 

[Dan54]

Also. Pocock was very classy in stopping playing to look after Crotty.

Pretty much seems like a classy guy to me, always has!

 

[wamberal]

The premise that a group of amateurs have better skills than the pros is a fantasy.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Skills under pressure, by the way.

 

[fatprop]

Skills under pressure, by the way.

Still a fantasy, these guy are punished far quicker for any errors than the "olden days".

 

[Brumby Runner]

We’re talking the Argies and South Africa here, not Georgia. They’re still quality sides. Great opportunity to give plan B a run, at the very least to see how the structure runs in case of an injury to Foley.
If they’re rubbish, don’t try it against the ABs. If it looks good, give it a run in Bled 3 if it’s a dead rubber.
Don’t get me wrong, there is a bunch of other equally important issues to address.
Thor,Sio, some lineout work and a different referee at scrum time will help some of those issues.
I’d be tempted to try Simmons again at 6 if we persist with the dual 7s (which I wouldn’t) to at least give us another lineout target. Tui offered us little in general play.
But the obvious forward issues still doesn’t mean we should accept the status quo in the backs - which is also not good enough.

Big mistake to play any player, let alone a consistently poor (at test level) performer out of position. I agree that Tui didn't front up in Bledisloe 1 as we'd hoped he would. I will again put forward an unpopular name to take the No 6 spot in the remaining tests. Gus Cottrell. A true No 6/8 who has the abrasiveness to take on the best. He is a good jumper at No 2, and his workload around the ground is impressive.

A back row of Cottrell, Pocock, Timu with Samu on the bench looks a hell of a lot better than any we've gone with over the past three years. Will only get stronger with the return of Dempsey and McMahon in the future, and the emergence of Naisarani and Valetini.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I genuinnely wonder who you think decides that the ball is to be thrown to Hooper in a 6 man lineout in th 59th minute of the match if not the lineout caller - who was Coleman yesterday.

Watch the replay if you'd like - there's no huddle. The players run up. Robertson gets the call from Coleman and passes it to Latu. The players enter the lineout and the ball is tossed in. Brodie eats it for lunch.

Which perfectly illustrates my point that lineouts are far too complex to be determined by one player only. In what world would a single player of the likes of Coleman or Simmons have the overall vision of the game and the responsibility for deciding which form of lineout would be appropriate in any of the multitude of situations that occur in a game. The decision is one that must be taken by the person with authority to make decisions in the game, ie the captain, with the role of the Coleman/Simmons etc lineout operator simply one to nominate the catcher. Lineout calling is yesterday's tactic and not at all suitable for today's complex game.