Bledisloe 1 - Saturday 18 August 2018 - ANZ Stadium, Sydney

[Up the Guts]

Can I ask, how many lineouts did you see where there was a call from a Wallaby which could have been worked out by Retallick et al? I didn't take note, but I would be extremely surprised if there was one. Lineouts these days are not "called" as a rule, but are passed on to the thrower by one of the props.

I really think there was something structural going amiss with the Wallabies lineout and the best guess I can make is that TPN had little familiarisation with the structure and it's intricate moves before being put on the hot seat. It looked to be extremely poor tactics from Cheika to play TPN without the benefit of taking his form into account before selecting him, just as the selections of Hooper and DHP straight back from injuries were poor tactics as well.

Perhaps call is the wrong term and it would be better to say they worked out our tactics (did we have any?) almost immediately and picked us off 9/10 times.

 

[Up the Guts]

So who do we move to 15 with Izzy out?

KB (Kurtley Beale) with To'omua at 12?
DHP with Banks/Maddocks/Naivalu on the wing?
Banks/Maddocks a straight swap?

I'm keen on seeing Banks at 15. Leave KB (Kurtley Beale) where he is because that's where he does his best work. Maddocks for DHP could be on the cards from what I saw as well.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Reece Hodge is too valuable not to be in the side, but doesn't look to be the answer at 13. I think I'd like to see him move to 15 where his big booming kick would be more available and more effective than the present arrangements for kicking. He looks like a full back. Not quite the fastest but good speed when he gets going. Think he can handle the high ball and his defense is really quite acceptable.

I would then like to see Maddocks and Banks on the wings. Pace to burn and both offer good full back skills as well to strengthen the back. No 13 is then the problem child. Taking a rather creative view of things and maybe thinking that someone who actually plays 13 might be the best option, then it comes down to a choice between Rona and English. Neither are what we might expect of test match players, but are the best available until the two Ks return.

Foley must give way to a new combination at 10/12. Beale to 10 and To'omua to 12, and they swap around as play dictates.

Beyond that, Jordan Petaia on the bench. He is a rising star and needs to be challenged at this level sooner rather than later.

Fixed.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Perhaps call is the wrong term and it would be better to say they worked out our tactics (did we have any?) almost immediately and picked us off 9/10 times.

Yeah, our throwing was shit and that is where the lineouts were won (by the ABs) and lost (by us). "Calling" does not enter into it. The tactics were questionable, like having one full lineout only all game (as reported here by others) and especially by having Hooper jumping one on one against Retallick. Good or bad tactics are more an issue to the forwards captain rather than any one fans deem to be a lineout caller.

 

[ShtinaTina]

BPA has been left in Australia & Folau Fainga'a has been taken to NZ. Meeks & Rory Arnold have also been taken to Waiheke Island.

 

[tragic]

Playing someone against the lesser sides isn't going prove much, they all look better, the shit happens when they play the best like the ABs

That is where the shit breaks down

On Foley ( or any other 10 in the world) run behind a pack losing most of their set pieces and they all look average.

Give him front foot ball and he does fine

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We’re talking the Argies and South Africa here, not Georgia. They’re still quality sides. Great opportunity to give plan B a run, at the very least to see how the structure runs in case of an injury to Foley.
If they’re rubbish, don’t try it against the ABs. If it looks good, give it a run in Bled 3 if it’s a dead rubber.
Don’t get me wrong, there is a bunch of other equally important issues to address.
Thor,Sio, some lineout work and a different referee at scrum time will help some of those issues.
I’d be tempted to try Simmons again at 6 if we persist with the dual 7s (which I wouldn’t) to at least give us another lineout target. Tui offered us little in general play.
But the obvious forward issues still doesn’t mean we should accept the status quo in the backs - which is also not good enough.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Good or bad tactics are more an issue to the forwards captain rather than any one fans deem to be a lineout caller.

I genuinnely wonder who you think decides that the ball is to be thrown to Hooper in a 6 man lineout in th 59th minute of the match if not the lineout caller - who was Coleman yesterday.

Watch the replay if you'd like - there's no huddle. The players run up. Robertson gets the call from Coleman and passes it to Latu. The players enter the lineout and the ball is tossed in. Brodie eats it for lunch.

 

[KOB1987]

 

[Up the Guts]

Puzzled me live as to why Latu threw it in.

 

[KOB1987]

I just can’t get my head around it. My U13s side wouldn’t even do that

 

[Up the Guts]

So there was a bit made about Koribete's lack of ball security that led him to being stripped by Naholo and ultimately NZ's second try. Happy to be convinced otherwise but I'm still of the opinion that this is a pretty basic miss from Peyper, as Koroibete clearly has his knees on the ground when he's stripped, and should have been released immediately.

 

[TSR]

Hooper, Pocock & Timu were all used against Ireland as targets and won a throw or two each.

The question to me is why NZ found it so easy to read/defend all our line outs and why there was so much disconnect between the throwers and the jumpers. There were a couple of times where it looked like the thrower had completely misunderstood the call. It doesn’t make sense to me that it was TPNs late inclusion in the squad. The guy is a season veteran and it is not like he only turned up on Thursday.

The game was terribly disappointing. I had thought that the Ireland series may have shown that we were actually making progress. I can live with losing, but still struggling with the fundamentals is really hard to watch.

 

[jimmydubs]

Man fuck all this 'replace the coach' or 'replace this player'.

We will never win the Bledisloe. Ever. I'll never pay to see it again. It's time to shelve it.

If Rugby is to ever improve in Aus we need to stop being NZs punching bags and we can't do that shit by playing them 3 times a year.

Plus, first test in Sydney every year we get fucking fluffybunnyed by nz. Hows that going to go for your fan attendance?

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I'm sick of that excuse.
Why don't you trot it out when we get pumped by England, Ireland or scotland. Go look at our record against all comers. It's shocking against all decent teamsnot only nz

 

[wamberal]

I'm sick of that excuse.
Why don't you trot it out when we get pumped by England, Ireland or Wales. Go look at our record against all comers. It's shocking against all decent teamsnot only nz

Which is why are so low in the World Rankings. Remind me, where are we? 40th?

 

[fatprop]

Koribete does a hell of lot so bloody well. There was a moment where chased a kick back hard kept it in play and then we cleared the kick. And guess who was there chasing that kick to stop them playing on?

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[Quick Hands]

The game was terribly disappointing. I had thought that the Ireland series may have shown that we were actually making progress. I can live with losing, but still struggling with the fundamentals is really hard to watch.

Neither the result or the manner of the result should surprise anyone. Same goes for the Ireland series and the last series against England. This is where we are as a rugby playing nation. We're going to get the occasional really good team come along and for the rest of the time we are going to be mid-field in Tier 1.

Fewer kids playing the game = fewer adults playing the game = a smaller talent pool for the elite professsional game = where we are now.

Totally foreseen and forseeable. Where our elite level rugby is now has a direct causative link to what's happened at the base of the pyramid in the past 15-20 years.

Broadly speaking, the best players we have available are being picked and the best coach available is coaching the team. There's no quick fix.

 

[Quick Hands]

Which is why are so low in the World Rankings. Remind me, where are we? 40th?

There are 10 Tier 1 rugby nations and as at 13 Augst 2018 we're currently ranked 5th - midfield.

And we lost last night and are likely to lose next week as well.

 

[TSR]

Neither the result or the manner of the result should surprise anyone. Same goes for the Ireland series and the last series against England. This is where we are as a rugby playing nation. We're going to get the occasional really good team come along and for the rest of the time we are going to be mid-field in Tier 1.

Fewer kids playing the game = fewer adults playing the game = a smaller talent pool for the elite professsional game = where we are now.

Totally foreseen and forseeable. Where our elite level rugby is now has a direct causative link to what's happened at the base of the pyramid in the past 15-20 years.

Broadly speaking, the best players we have available are being picked and the best coach available is coaching the team. There's no quick fix.

Well maybe I am not astute enough. Losing wasn’t a surprise to me, but the method of our capitulation and the total disfunction of our set piece certainly was.

I agree that there are no quick fixes - but it has also been apparent what some of the issues have been for some time and last night proved that we have been unable to systematically address them.

I 100% agree that we would benefit enormously from a broadening of the player base, but it isn’t like we don’t have a big enough elite player base. Yes, we don’t have the war chest of England, but we do invest enough to expect that we should have shown consistent, sustainable improvement.

IMO last night was amongst the worst performances I’ve seen. It was like the players hadn’t trained together.

 

[dru]

Well maybe I am not astute enough. Losing wasn’t a surprise to me, but the method of our capitulation and the total disfunction of our set piece certainly was.

I agree that there are no quick fixes - but it has also been apparent what some of the issues have been for some time and last night proved that we have been unable to systematically address them.

I 100% agree that we would benefit enormously from a broadening of the player base, but it isn’t like we don’t have a big enough elite player base. Yes, we don’t have the war chest of England, but we do invest enough to expect that we should have shown consistent, sustainable improvement.

IMO last night was amongst the worst performances I’ve seen. It was like the players hadn’t trained together.

No. That was game #1 last year.

 

[jimmydubs]

Which is why are so low in the World Rankings. Remind me, where are we? 40th?

Look at our win rates. Do you remember we are 1/7 against England, 1/5 against Ireland. Very acceptable.. 2/11 or 2/12 against nz suddenly doesn't look like it's the opposition tha t is the problem.

Do you think if we played Scotland more we'd be higher or lower ranked than we are?

Edit: shit I forgot this is wam. Time for the rugby doesn't appeal to Australians story...
Fark