Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
I'd hope not........
Higgers best form has been at 8, and Fardy has been mammoth at 6........
Ben Mowen survives alleged mutiny plot.........
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I'd hope not........
Higgers best form has been at 8, and Fardy has been mammoth at 6........
T
Train Without a Station
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I agree Slim. I don't think Palu necessarily fits into what Link is trying to achieve. His selection of Simmons at 6 and selection of a reserve 6/8 over a 7 seems to indicate his desire to have as many front line jumping options as possible. Palu really doesn't fit that. He is a jumper due to his height, but a weaker option than Higgers, Mowen or Fardy.
I think the combination of Fardy and Hooper's form and Mowen's run as captain will mean that it is difficult for Higgers, Pocock and Palu to force their way back into the starting XV even if on paper they might be the best options.
What's certain is that they will have to play extremely well to push out any of the current backrow and that can only be a good thing for the Wallabies.
I can't imagine Link is going to take dropping any of Fardy, Mowen and Hooper lightly and there will need to be compelling reasons not to pick them for the first test against France in June.
The most obvious change given current form is to shuffle Fardy into lock if Palu or Higgers really force Link to select one of them.
What's certain is that they will have to play extremely well to push out any of the current backrow and that can only be a good thing for the Wallabies.
I can't imagine Link is going to take dropping any of Fardy, Mowen and Hooper lightly and there will need to be compelling reasons not to pick them for the first test against France in June.
The most obvious change given current form is to shuffle Fardy into lock if Palu or Higgers really force Link to select one of them.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
Palu's tight work isn't required as much if we have a tight 5 who are actually doing their job. In addition Fardy does a lot of tight work.
Higgers provides the extra running option and is a front line jumper. If you have a pack with either
4. Simmons
5. Horwill
6. Fardy
8. Mowen
or
4. Simmons
5. Horwill
6. Mowen
8. Higginbotham
You can bank on quite a strong set piece. I don't see Link moving Fardy to lock for that reason. He has shown a preference for a 6/lock to start at 6, strengthen the scrum and line out and play that tighter game.
Interestingly, I'm doubtful that we will see any all Brumbies back row as I think with the style of player the 7 and 8 will likely be either Hooper & Mowen or Higginbotham & Pocock together as they are probably better as a unit.
Higgers provides the extra running option and is a front line jumper. If you have a pack with either
4. Simmons
5. Horwill
6. Fardy
8. Mowen
or
4. Simmons
5. Horwill
6. Mowen
8. Higginbotham
You can bank on quite a strong set piece. I don't see Link moving Fardy to lock for that reason. He has shown a preference for a 6/lock to start at 6, strengthen the scrum and line out and play that tighter game.
Interestingly, I'm doubtful that we will see any all Brumbies back row as I think with the style of player the 7 and 8 will likely be either Hooper & Mowen or Higginbotham & Pocock together as they are probably better as a unit.
M
Muttonbird
Guest
Amazing, isn't it? Robshaw for England was in a similar position last year. Seen as not good enough to hold his position, but a good captain is worth much more than that, and a shit captain much less.
M
Muttonbird
Guest
So's Mowen, here.
mudskipper
Colin Windon (37)
Palu is a 40 min test player has been for a sometime... Mowen is an 80 min player... Higgers is hot and cold... Pocock is a match winner on his day...
mudskipper
Colin Windon (37)
Palu is a player that other sides respect and fear... He is always valued on teh field... goood running player too...
#1 Tah
Chilla Wilson (44)
I really love statistics:
Tom Carter retired from professional rugby with a 100% winning rate as captain of the Waratahs. (He also scored 2 tries V Lions in his last game)
Needless to say the right balance must be found in the backrow for next year. Palu offers a good running game while playing tighter than Higgenbotham, who offers more pace and linking play. Fardy and Mowen have been immense this year getting through a helluva lot of work.
I think combinations will be paramount. See how Fardy, Pocock and Mowen go for ACT (damn thats a good back row) and see how Dennis, Hoops and Cliffy go for NSW. Lets not forget that Link helped develop Dennis and Palu at the Tahs and knows Simmonds, Horwill and Higgenbotham well from his time at QLD.
Slim 293
Stirling Mortlock (74)
"It's the 33-game, 43-hour ironman effort that makes Wallabies captain Ben Mowen the hardest-working player in Australian rugby........."
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/wallaby-skipper-ben-mowen-is-rugbys-ironman-20131203-2yout.html#ixzz2mPyio7tK
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/wallaby-skipper-ben-mowen-is-rugbys-ironman-20131203-2yout.html#ixzz2mPyio7tK
A mutterer
Chilla Wilson (44)
i think mowen has done reasonably well as captain. horwill is certainly playing himself back into form with the focus just on his game. was it serendipitous that mowen was captain when we strung the wins together? possibly, but he still deserves a crack next year to definitively prove himself if his playing form continues.
T
Train Without a Station
Guest
I tend to think a major reason for the change wasn't really that Mowen's leadership was considered better, but Link felt his spot was more assured in the starting team for the tour (Horwill was going to be dropped for the England game), and that by having him as captain he has been able to ease Horwill back to better form only playing 60 minutes a game, which as a captain would be less than ideal.
Muglair
Alfred Walker (16)
Sometimes hard to find the right thread but here is as good a place as any for some thoughts on 2013 as a watershed year (translation: I have shot my mouth off on a large number of threads and seek salvation):
Personally I thought Greg Smith was quite limited as a coach. Conversely he was quite smart in some areas and I think the work he did breaking up the 1995 cohort and introducing so many players to Test Rugby in 1996 and 1997 made a significant contribution to the success of Rod McQueen and the 1998-2001 Wallabies.
Rod McQueen was a fabulously successful coach based as far as I can see more on managing the talent and personalities he had than any other factor (possibly he also lucked into some rare playing groups). I note McQueen's final foray with the Rebels did not yield anything like his previous results. Not to detract in any way, the 1998/01 era was a fantastic time to be a rugby and Wallabies supporter.
Every coach of the Wallabies and Brumbies since has had to deal with those player expectations, sometimes with spectacular fallout.
As noted previously on other strings I have been less than impressed with the whole McKenzie caravan over the last 18 months and still do not understand the logic behind the reported events and happenings around the 'Dublin 6'. However it is hard to argue with results and also the manner in which they were achieved.
The concrete things I can understand:
I hope that we look back and see Deans in the light Smith should have been seen in. The overdue breaking up of the 2003 cohort, the introduction of a large number of younger players to Test Rugby. A great foundation may have been laid for 2015. On the other hand more Tests as a coach than any other, six years, it was time to move on if we wanted to see better results.
My view after the first couple of games was that McKenzie was entitled to lead until the end of the 2014 RC. I absolutely believe he has earned the right for unequivocal support to take the team to the 2015 RWC. Four out of five and I still think a bit harshly dealt with by the referee in the fifth game.
Out of all of the confusion surrounding the Dublin 6, unhappiness with the captain (see, it is related to this thread!) etc the only thing that makes sense to me is that the players are still confused about who has the power. Perhaps the method in the madness is that McKenzie is now dealing with the last vestiges of something that really worked amazingly well in 1997 but has now clearly been hampering our teams.
As a Waratahs and Wallabies supporter I look forward to next year with a great deal of hope and optimism.
As an aside, I think Mowen and Dennis have proved great captains this year. Both seem to grow as players in that role even if they may not be first choice test players. I think the lack of succession in the Wallabies from 2005 to 2007 has led to trying to pick a captain from a small group who had mortgages on their positions. A good case study is Sharpe who led well but was only a certain starter because of injuries to first choice players.
Merry Xmas to all
Personally I thought Greg Smith was quite limited as a coach. Conversely he was quite smart in some areas and I think the work he did breaking up the 1995 cohort and introducing so many players to Test Rugby in 1996 and 1997 made a significant contribution to the success of Rod McQueen and the 1998-2001 Wallabies.
Rod McQueen was a fabulously successful coach based as far as I can see more on managing the talent and personalities he had than any other factor (possibly he also lucked into some rare playing groups). I note McQueen's final foray with the Rebels did not yield anything like his previous results. Not to detract in any way, the 1998/01 era was a fantastic time to be a rugby and Wallabies supporter.
Every coach of the Wallabies and Brumbies since has had to deal with those player expectations, sometimes with spectacular fallout.
As noted previously on other strings I have been less than impressed with the whole McKenzie caravan over the last 18 months and still do not understand the logic behind the reported events and happenings around the 'Dublin 6'. However it is hard to argue with results and also the manner in which they were achieved.
The concrete things I can understand:
I hope that we look back and see Deans in the light Smith should have been seen in. The overdue breaking up of the 2003 cohort, the introduction of a large number of younger players to Test Rugby. A great foundation may have been laid for 2015. On the other hand more Tests as a coach than any other, six years, it was time to move on if we wanted to see better results.
My view after the first couple of games was that McKenzie was entitled to lead until the end of the 2014 RC. I absolutely believe he has earned the right for unequivocal support to take the team to the 2015 RWC. Four out of five and I still think a bit harshly dealt with by the referee in the fifth game.
Out of all of the confusion surrounding the Dublin 6, unhappiness with the captain (see, it is related to this thread!) etc the only thing that makes sense to me is that the players are still confused about who has the power. Perhaps the method in the madness is that McKenzie is now dealing with the last vestiges of something that really worked amazingly well in 1997 but has now clearly been hampering our teams.
As a Waratahs and Wallabies supporter I look forward to next year with a great deal of hope and optimism.
As an aside, I think Mowen and Dennis have proved great captains this year. Both seem to grow as players in that role even if they may not be first choice test players. I think the lack of succession in the Wallabies from 2005 to 2007 has led to trying to pick a captain from a small group who had mortgages on their positions. A good case study is Sharpe who led well but was only a certain starter because of injuries to first choice players.
Merry Xmas to all
mudskipper
Colin Windon (37)
I think McKenzie has shown the players he is in control... McQueen at the Brumbies was a completely different story as they were starting from scratch, and he wanted players to build their own culture and connect with the local community, BTW it worked... The Wallabies area a completely different proposition...
Its also important to remember that McKenzie is dealing with adults and not school boys... With that comes personal accountabilities, players need to act professional and be responsible when representing their country, furthermore be accountable for their efforts within the playing group on and off the field...
For me what I have noticed in the past 4 games is that the players are now playing for each other more, hence less selfish play and more players pushing themselves to do more... In the past I feel players were playing not to make mistakes, playing for positive personal stats and not primarily to win as a team, but not to over achieve either... Personally I think this is brilliant with young guys like To'omua working so hard on the field and chasing everything down he can easily make many other players look lazy... And I think some of these see that now and have stepped up... Well done McKenzie and well done to teh new lads for pushing the senior players too...
The fact that the Wallabies have under achieved in the recent years and players have lost focus has nothing to do with what the start up Brumbies did in the 90s... thats one point OZ rugby fans need to move on from, stop looking to the past to justify poor behavour and results now...
Its also important to remember that McKenzie is dealing with adults and not school boys... With that comes personal accountabilities, players need to act professional and be responsible when representing their country, furthermore be accountable for their efforts within the playing group on and off the field...
For me what I have noticed in the past 4 games is that the players are now playing for each other more, hence less selfish play and more players pushing themselves to do more... In the past I feel players were playing not to make mistakes, playing for positive personal stats and not primarily to win as a team, but not to over achieve either... Personally I think this is brilliant with young guys like To'omua working so hard on the field and chasing everything down he can easily make many other players look lazy... And I think some of these see that now and have stepped up... Well done McKenzie and well done to teh new lads for pushing the senior players too...
The fact that the Wallabies have under achieved in the recent years and players have lost focus has nothing to do with what the start up Brumbies did in the 90s... thats one point OZ rugby fans need to move on from, stop looking to the past to justify poor behavour and results now...
Scrubber2050
Mark Ella (57)
The Wallabies recent successes has nothing to do with Mowen's captaincy. He was just "lucky" to be in the teram at the same time Horwill was playing shithouse. I think most would agree Mowen was only OK on the tour
Who else could Link pick? Mowen was a very good captain at the Brums, Genia was needed to concentrate on his own game and it would have been difficult to promote Moore over Mowen (because of Brums captaincy)
Trouble is, no-one really seems to like the bloke. Think Mowen got the captaincy by "default" and is in a caretaker role until Horwill reinstated. Of course, he will face incredible pressure from Palu and Higgers upon their return just to make the run-on side.
Who else could Link pick? Mowen was a very good captain at the Brums, Genia was needed to concentrate on his own game and it would have been difficult to promote Moore over Mowen (because of Brums captaincy)
Trouble is, no-one really seems to like the bloke. Think Mowen got the captaincy by "default" and is in a caretaker role until Horwill reinstated. Of course, he will face incredible pressure from Palu and Higgers upon their return just to make the run-on side.
Tomikin
David Codey (61)
Where has anyone said they don't like the bloke, the only person I've heard talk about him is Nic White and he said his a great Captain. Oh and James Horwill say there good mates so they will work well together anyway (I know he could just be saying that..)
He may well have pressure from the team next year but his now the incumbent 6/8 player .. Yeah he got his chance because Higgers was injured but if his in as good form as the other guys next year he will get the nod to start.
It's good problem to have but I think people seem to think Higgers, Palu and Pocock will walk back in there going to have to earn it.
EDIT: Noticed you said under incredible pressure, but so will those 2
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