Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2018

[DaSchmooze]

It's obviously disappointing that the tour wasn't funded by someone.

I have to disagree with your assessment of the pathways provided by school rugby. In private schools at least.
Students have the opportunity to represent their Associations, then State teams and then to be selected in one of two National squads.
The U16s were included several years ago so they have the chance to represent their Associations and then their State.
In NSW, all of these players are candidates for being approached by GenBlue personnel.

At the annual Schoolboys Championships the players are on show and the talent scouts are out in force. It's a wonderful experience and opportunity for them regarding their post school rugby (or league).

I have no doubt the quality of the experience is great, but I wonder if the time, effort and expense of putting the pathway together would be better spent in developing grass roots participation in schools - particularly when a pathway already exists.

School sport and club sport spend a disproportionate amount of time trying to do what the other one does much better than them. Clubs bust their gut trying to engage with kids when school do this job WAY better than them, and schools love spruiking their pathways which ultimately, only ever lead to a plaque and an interesting side note on a resume (which is soon forgotten and removed).

Wouldnt it be great if schools could get access to the external pathway straight from school? Then we could dispense with the duplication that happens in all sports and focus our attention on the things that each provider does well.

 

[sidelineview]

I think the most pressing issue with rugby is to engage kids in the game at an early age, rather than seeing them start playing soccer and AFL and be lost to the game forever.
If students are playing soccer or AFL by the time they reach Year 7, then forget about them ever playing rugby.
League players adjust quite easily to rugby when entering Year 7 at a rugby school, and can go onto pursue rugby post school.
From the 2016 crop of school rugby players, Adam Douhie signed with Souths RL, but Tom Fuller, a Roosters player from Waverley College switched over to rugby and has now been named in the Junior Wallabies squad.

I think its up to both schools and clubs to engage and develop players. The perfect situation is when a local rugby Club has a good working relationship with a particular school.
The governing bodies need to promote the game in all schools at an early age with visits and clinics but it seems a lack of resources prevent this from happening to a satisfactory extent.

Some schools do have a good working relationship with a local Club and this is mutually beneficial with Club coaches helping to develop the school players at school and with those school players signing up to play with that Club, and particularly to play Colts post school.

I can only assume that lack of resources prevents the governing bodies from being more proactive in promoting the game in schools or to assist personnel from local clubs to do that job.

There are a lot of issues for the governing bodies to consider from top to bottom, but building from the bottom up has somehow been overlooked, while soccer and AFL have been hard at work and successful in engaging young players at club abd school levels.

There's no doubt factors that turn Mums and Dads off seeing their sons (and daughters) play rugby, such as the ''rough; nature of the game, but still a lot of ground has been lost over the years.

 

[DaSchmooze]

Agreed with all of this.

I think the most pressing issue with rugby is to engage kids in the game at an early age, rather than seeing them start playing soccer and AFL and be lost to the game forever.
If students are playing soccer or AFL by the time they reach Year 7, then forget about them ever playing rugby.
League players adjust quite easily to rugby when entering Year 7 at a rugby school, and can go onto pursue rugby post school.
From the 2016 crop of school rugby players, Adam Douhie signed with Souths RL, but Tom Fuller, a Roosters player from Waverley College switched over to rugby and has now been named in the Junior Wallabies squad.

I think its up to both schools and clubs to engage and develop players. The perfect situation is when a local rugby Club has a good working relationship with a particular school.
The governing bodies need to promote the game in all schools at an early age with visits and clinics but it seems a lack of resources prevent this from happening to a satisfactory extent.

Some schools do have a good working relationship with a local Club and this is mutually beneficial with Club coaches helping to develop the school players at school and with those school players signing up to play with that Club, and particularly to play Colts post school.

I can only assume that lack of resources prevents the governing bodies from being more proactive in promoting the game in schools or to assist personnel from local clubs to do that job.

There are a lot of issues for the governing bodies to consider from top to bottom, but building from the bottom up has somehow been overlooked, while soccer and AFL have been hard at work and successful in engaging young players at club abd school levels.

There's no doubt factors that turn Mums and Dads off seeing their sons (and daughters) play rugby, such as the ''rough; nature of the game, but still a lot of ground has been lost over the years.

 

[Up and under]

I think the most pressing issue with rugby is to engage kids in the game at an early age, rather than seeing them start playing soccer and AFL and be lost to the game forever.
If students are playing soccer or AFL by the time they reach Year 7, then forget about them ever playing rugby.
League players adjust quite easily to rugby when entering Year 7 at a rugby school, and can go onto pursue rugby post school.
From the 2016 crop of school rugby players, Adam Douhie signed with Souths RL, but Tom Fuller, a Roosters player from Waverley College switched over to rugby and has now been named in the Junior Wallabies squad.

I think its up to both schools and clubs to engage and develop players. The perfect situation is when a local rugby Club has a good working relationship with a particular school.
The governing bodies need to promote the game in all schools at an early age with visits and clinics but it seems a lack of resources prevent this from happening to a satisfactory extent.

Some schools do have a good working relationship with a local Club and this is mutually beneficial with Club coaches helping to develop the school players at school and with those school players signing up to play with that Club, and particularly to play Colts post school.

I can only assume that lack of resources prevents the governing bodies from being more proactive in promoting the game in schools or to assist personnel from local clubs to do that job.

There are a lot of issues for the governing bodies to consider from top to bottom, but building from the bottom up has somehow been overlooked, while soccer and AFL have been hard at work and successful in engaging young players at club abd school levels.

There's no doubt factors that turn Mums and Dads off seeing their sons (and daughters) play rugby, such as the ''rough; nature of the game, but still a lot of ground has been lost over the years.

If a school rugby player wants to develop and improve as a player, it's definitely in his best interests to continue to play club rugby up until he transitions into the Opens age group at school.

At school he will play a maximum of 10-11 games a season not including washouts. Last year in the juniors there were a few games washed out so some teams only played appx.9 games all year. Does anyone seriously think that any player can develop playing that few amount of games a season ? Conversely, playing club rugby on a Sunday allows a player to play up to 25-30 games a year.

I believe one of the reasons Waverley College were so successful last year was the fact that at least 75% of the 1st XV played club rugby for Randwick up to and including the U16's. Extra coaching,extra fitness and games against tough opposition week in,week out is a huge advantage for those that continue on with club rugby.

I know some schools frown upon their students playing club rugby, but I guess for schools like Waverley, allowing their boys to play club rugby is a proven and winning formula.

 

[WLF]

If a school rugby player wants to develop and improve as a player, it's definitely in his best interests to continue to play club rugby up until he transitions into the Opens age group at school.

At school he will play a maximum of 10-11 games a season not including washouts. Last year in the juniors there were a few games washed out so some teams only played appx.9 games all year. Does anyone seriously think that any player can develop playing that few amount of games a season ? Conversely, playing club rugby on a Sunday allows a player to play up to 25-30 games a year.

I believe one of the reasons Waverley College were so successful last year was the fact that at least 75% of the 1st XV played club rugby for Randwick up to and including the U16's. Extra coaching,extra fitness and games against tough opposition week in,week out is a huge advantage for those that continue on with club rugby.

I know some schools frown upon their students playing club rugby, but I guess for schools like Waverley, allowing their boys to play club rugby is a proven and winning formula.

Yes up and under,

That is precisely the formula.

The 15s age group at Waverley this year have approx 20+ playing at Randwick as well as at school.

The make up of the A's really only came together at the back end of last year, and this school/Randwick As team won the club B grade comp quite easily, they will now be in A grade this year.

This extra playing time has clearly improved their skill level, team bonding etc, baring injury ,we will see how this team performs against some strong GPS,ISA and CAS teams this year.

The 14s and 13s are also following down this path.

I suspect other schools may have similar strategies in place, but I haven't heard from anyone associated with other schools else as yet.

 

[sidelineview]

Thats true Up and Under and the same can be said for school rugby players who play Club league.
They can receive some really good coaching which improves their rugby playing skills, particularly with the basics of passing and catching and tackling.

 

[I like to watch]

Thats true Up and Under and the same can be said for school rugby players who play Club league.
They can receive some really good coaching which improves their rugby playing skills, particularly with the basics of passing and catching and tackling.

That's not been my experience.
They are quite literally coached not to pass these days.
The term passing licence has unbelievably become common.
Tackling?
That was true years ago, if anything the current tactic off 'catching' in the NRL is actually a negative for developing players IMO.

 

[sidelineview]

That's not been my experience.
They are quite literally coached not to pass these days.
The term passing licence has unbelievably become common.
Tackling?
That was true years ago, if anything the current tactic off 'catching' in the NRL is actually a negative for developing players IMO.

I dont agree. It depends who coaches them. I think you're generalising.
All the young league players should be taught how to catch and pass and how to execute the different types of tackles properly.
The thing is volunteers coach junior sporting teams and some of them are good and some of them so so good, but in theory at least these basic skills should be taught.
I have heard that when Wayne Bennett takes over a Club, he focuses on catching and passing, even for 1st graders, because so many of them havent been coached properly in this area.

 

[I like to watch]

You watch much junior league?
They ALL have the same mindset, reduce errors,complete sets.
That means actively discouraging some kids from passing the ball.
I know a kid playing Toyota cup that was abused at 1/2 time for giving the final pass for their teams only try.
He didn't have a passing licence .
And if these skills were generally being taught, then Bennett wouldn't need to be coaching these skills to the most elite players in the code.

 

[Prince Henry]

Rugby League improves tackling? That is a myth

Imagine if RL players were yellow carded for any hit above the breast line (as it pretty much is in RU these days)? What about the grapple tackles and neck rolls and egg rolls and chinese burns that League players execute? None of that rubbish is in Union.

Let's get real. In Union you want to either chop an attacker so your team mate can go over the top and pilfer, tie up the ball to slow the next phase down or keep a guy on his feet so you can force a maul. All of these are counter to how League players are taught to tackle.

Because of the (very) tight policing by referees and now retrospective TMO inspections, the accuracy of the initial hit is far more important in Union and therefore defenders have far more of a challenge. You can't even accidentally slap a player high when executing a tackle. Let's do a fair comparison and watch the relative accurate execution of some Union players tackling v the sloppy League techniques of 2018.

 

[sidelineview]

You watch much junior league?
They ALL have the same mindset, reduce errors,complete sets.
That means actively discouraging some kids from passing the ball.
I know a kid playing Toyota cup that was abused at 1/2 time for giving the final pass for their teams only try.
He didn't have a passing licence .
And if these skills were generally being taught, then Bennett wouldn't need to be coaching these skills to the most elite players in the code.

Bennet recognises that not all players receive good coaching on their way to grade but sees a need to try to perfect this basic part of the game.
To improve the players who are behind his standards and to bring the whole team up to his standard in catching and passing.
Many games are won and lost through these basic skills particularly under fatigue and pressure so it makes sense.

It depends on who coaches a team in either league or rugby. Some players can miss out on good coaching because a well meaning volunteer or teacher takes charge and isnt a proficient coach.

A well run rugby program at a school or a club will try to ensure the coaches are up to scratch.

The ambition to win shackles coaches at all levels. some rugby coaches will encourage an expansive style of running rugby, given he has talented players and others will want their team to mainly grind away with pick and drive plays regardless of the player talent at his disposal. A coaches game plan doesnt always reflect what the players are taught at training. Trends play a part too. A league game where a team hits it up for 5 tackles and then kicks is boring.
It's not pleasurable to watch a rugby or league team be obsessed with percentage play.
It is pleasurable however to see a team back themselves in both codes and showcase their skills.
It does happen.

It depends.

Last season, the skills coach of the Wallabies (cant remember his name) came out with a statement that the players needed to improve their catching and passing and needed time to do so; they were on the improve or words to that effect.
The natural reaction to that statement was ''they should be skilled at these basics by the time they hit this level, so why arent they?"

 

[The Honey Badger]

We'd be better off letting them play in the schoolboys teams and enjoying it so they feel that coming back to rugby is an option and they don't leave with a bitter taste in their mouths.

An Australian Schools jumper should be a great honour.

It should only be given to boys committed to our game.

If they are holding League contracts they should be ineligible.

The likes of Doeuhie in the paper today spruking his Rugby Aus Schools experience makes me sick.
They use their selection to get a league contract.

Should be made sign a commitment to the game like the NZ boys are required to.

Maybe then the likes of Crichton might be still with us.

Just my opinion, I know there are plenty of League supporters particularly from the East that will disagree.

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[sidelineview]

Rugby League improves tackling? That is a myth

Imagine if RL players were yellow carded for any hit above the breast line (as it pretty much is in RU these days)? What about the grapple tackles and neck rolls and egg rolls and chinese burns that League players execute? None of that rubbish is in Union.

Let's get real. In Union you want to either chop an attacker so your team mate can go over the top and pilfer, tie up the ball to slow the next phase down or keep a guy on his feet so you can force a maul. All of these are counter to how League players are taught to tackle.

Because of the (very) tight policing by referees and now retrospective TMO inspections, the accuracy of the initial hit is far more important in Union and therefore defenders have far more of a challenge. You can't even accidentally slap a player high when executing a tackle. Let's do a fair comparison and watch the relative accurate execution of some Union players tackling v the sloppy League techniques of 2018.

I wasn't boasting on behalf of RL or league coaches, so i hope i dont get excommunicated.

I was actually referring to students who turn up in Year 7 to a rugby school and have played league only or both rugby and league.

As i said, it depends on who has coached them and thats obviously very important, but a lot of league kids in my experience have been excellent defensive players. There is a lot more one on one tackling in the game and they start tackling properly earlier as opposed to the rugby kids who arent allowed to tackle until a certain age.

Thats not to say the rugby kids havent been coached properly as well.

The kids who have played both league and rugby, generally speaking have a more well rounded game when starting to play school rugby in Year 7 imo.

The good players in both codes can tackle strongly and catch and pass, so its a pointless contest.

A strong rugby program in any given school, given they have the resources will ensure good coaches are taking control of all age groups.
Likewise with a Junior Club.
It doesnt always happen though and players can fall behind.

 

[sidelineview]

An Australian Schools jumper should be a great honour.

It should only be given to boys committed to our game.

If they are holding League contracts they should be ineligible.

The likes of Doeuhie in the paper today spruking his Rugby Aus Schools experience makes me sick.
They use their selection to get a league contract.

Should be made sign a commitment to the game like the NZ boys are required to.

Maybe then the likes of Crichton might be still with us.

Just my opinion, I know there are plenty of League supporters particularly from the East that will disagree.

Sent from my MHA-L09 using Tapatalk

i agree.

Whats been happening is that some of the players have a finger in both pies without making any commitment either way, by the time they get to the Australian Schools Championships representing whatever State.

It's a gamble whether they choose league or rugby.

Definitely, those who have signed a RL contract should not be allowed to represent a State team.

 

[Show and go]

i agree.

Whats been happening is that some of the players have a finger in both pies without making any commitment either way, by the time they get to the Australian Schools Championships representing whatever State.

It's a gamble whether they choose league or rugby.

Definitely, those who have signed a RL contract should not be allowed to represent a State team.

I think you will find most SG Ball league players u18 are contracted ,so does that mean they are not allowed to be selected in the state teams.
Most of the contracted players then come off contract once SG ball has finished in early April 2018 and then it's do your best from there rugby or league . I think each NRL club which has 6 rookie contracts to use each year to recruit the best 6 players that suits there roster ,this is a great idea with first yr starting salary at $70k. Rugby somehow has to compete with this not sure how but when ,YES maybe Crichton and Douehi might not off been lost to league .

 

[sidelineview]

I think you will find most SG Ball league players u18 are contracted ,so does that mean they are not allowed to be selected in the state teams.
Most of the contracted players then come off contract once SG ball has finished in early April 2018 and then it's do your best from there rugby or league . I think each NRL club which has 6 rookie contracts to use each year to recruit the best 6 players that suits there roster ,this is a great idea with first yr starting salary at $70k. Rugby somehow has to compete with this not sure how but when ,YES maybe Crichton and Douehi might not off been lost to league .

You make a good point.
It's not black and white.

 

[formerflanker]

....students who turn up in Year 7 to a rugby school and have played league only or both rugby and league.

One of the key aspects of league defence in junior games is the number of tackles each player makes.
I haven't seen any stats on this, but observation tells me that league juniors make more tackles in a game than equivalent rugby youngsters.
The technical aspect may or may not be well coached, but the league boys have had more self-improvement, confidence building and completed tackles than rugby boys entering Year 7.

 

[Number 7]

IS,

I concur, it must be results driven.

Last year we moved key play makers out of their position, which everyone noticed, and got well beaten.

When you say funded by rugby Australia I can inform you that our school received a request to take a table/s at the upcoming school boys lunch to raise much needed funds for the European tour.

So my understanding of that is that the ARU/Rugby Australia are not covering the cost,can you believe it.

If this is correct, then it supports the article you have posted in that the powers that be do not adequately nuture the breeding ground of the future, but i guess that's no surprise to anyone.

Or am I wrong?

It was reported today that Rugby Australia are funding the tour to the tune of $100k. The fundraising lunches are to top up the funding to the required level. Scroll to the bottom of the following link:
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...estoring-building-blocks-20180315-p4z4l2.html

 

[WLF]

It was reported today that Rugby Australia are funding the tour to the tune of $100k. The fundraising lunches are to top up the funding to the required level. Scroll to the bottom of the following link:
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...estoring-building-blocks-20180315-p4z4l2.html

Thanks no 7,

That is GREAT news.

 

[Running_rugby_1954]

It was reported today that Rugby Australia are funding the tour to the tune of $100k. The fundraising lunches are to top up the funding to the required level. Scroll to the bottom of the following link:
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...estoring-building-blocks-20180315-p4z4l2.html

Why didn’t they do that last year?

Just needed to save money to give David Pocock?