Australian Schoolboys & National Championships 2012
- Thread starter CTPE
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Brian Westlake
Arch Winning (36)
Breathe easy old mate Newbs, for I think that the fine young Harry is injured. I concur with all that you have said. If he isn't injured, go kick down a couple of School selectors doors. I will loan you my steel capped dunlop volleys
R
rugbygold
Guest
He isnt injured
Kings played against an english touring school today
Jones scored a hattrick
And awarded man of the match!!
Kings played against an english touring school today
Jones scored a hattrick
And awarded man of the match!!
Newbie
Bill McLean (32)
A F-ing hatrick; he scored a hatrick; he must be feeling absolutely gutted!
There is only one explanation for this outcome; young Harry has bedded a few daughters of the Aus Schools coaching staff. Perhaps even a wife or two; perhaps he had them altogether!
How else would you explain this outcome?
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
It will take a while to find this out as he is back at school next year.
I would like to add my congratulations. I thought that if Horwitz wasn't in the team they would pick another flyhalf (and Sam Greene of BGS in particuar), but Moreoa had a top game last weekend and was in fine form.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
Not interested in any mungoism left in the boy. The end justifies the means. As long as they beat the Little Darknessers: end of story.
If Toyota Cup beckons next year, provided we won this year, then well done.
This team is the 2012 Australian Rugby Schoolboys team.
The ARU (contractually committed to rugby union) team may be different, to the allegedly best current rugby players at schools in Australia, which has been listed.
ASRU does not have any long term development responsibilities to ARU.
If one of the aust schoolboys intends to go to mungball next year then good luck and good riddance to them.
The ARU have the independent gold squad pathway to accommodate for rugby committed athletes. These may not quite be "ready" by year 12.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
Well said. The ARU sponsors Oz Schools rugby by running the Oz U/16 tournament and providing in-kind support for various measures and no doubt some cash for things such as tours, but it would be unseemly if they were involved with selections. They are not close enough to it.
Starting too early with the detailed assessment of players too young would not be a good use of their resources. With all its negatives the Gold squad method, with its relative cheapness, the lack of area/regional academies of the league professional teams, the size of the country and the chronic lack of funds for alternative measures, is probably the way to go if they want to be involved at the schools level.
A better analysis of school leavers in their first two years in Colts and Grade for the National Academy would be higher on my list of improvements in the assessment of young players than involvement with Oz Schools selections.
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Starting too early with the detailed assessment of players too young would not be a good use of their resources. With all its negatives the Gold squad method, with its relative cheapness, the lack of area/regional academies of the league professional teams, the size of the country and the chronic lack of funds for alternative measures, is probably the way to go if they want to be involved at the schools level.
A better analysis of school leavers in their first two years in Colts and Grade for the National Academy would be higher on my list of improvements in the assessment of young players than involvement with Oz Schools selections.
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CTPE
Nev Cottrell (35)
I heard that he was also played at 12 in this game and consequently saw a lot more ball than he has been getting in his last couple of matches. Also heard that he set up another 3 or 4 tries in what by all accounts was huge win.
Snort
Nev Cottrell (35)
It's hard to fathom these selections (I'll make the comments here, and not in the "bias" thread because I'm not accusing the selectors of bias, just mild incompetence).
When the team for Tonga was chosen, the selectors had the form of the National Championships as their guide. I assume since then they have watched schools games and maybe had some squad sessions. But if, say, Horwitz, Orr and Jones were in the best team against Tonga and (as they did) played well in a team that won by over fifty points, how is it possible that they then drop out of an expanded squad? And if the squad has been expanded on the basis of form, how is it possible that Jack Johnson misses out, when he played well for Australia A and has played the house down for Waverley ever since?
Selecting is a tough job and selectors always make mistakes (I did, when I was one). And good luck to the boys selected. It just seems tough on some of those left behind.
When the team for Tonga was chosen, the selectors had the form of the National Championships as their guide. I assume since then they have watched schools games and maybe had some squad sessions. But if, say, Horwitz, Orr and Jones were in the best team against Tonga and (as they did) played well in a team that won by over fifty points, how is it possible that they then drop out of an expanded squad? And if the squad has been expanded on the basis of form, how is it possible that Jack Johnson misses out, when he played well for Australia A and has played the house down for Waverley ever since?
Selecting is a tough job and selectors always make mistakes (I did, when I was one). And good luck to the boys selected. It just seems tough on some of those left behind.
Hugh Jarse
Rocky Elsom (76)
New Thread for the End of Season Tour, or just continue with this one?
Can't recall if the tour dates have been published or not.
Here they are off the ARU website:
The Australian Schoolboys touring party will travel to Fiji for two fixtures.
22 September vs Fijian President’s XV in Nadi
25 September vs Fijian Schools in Lautoka
The squad will then travel to New Zealand.
29 September vs New Zealand Barbarians in Auckland
2 October vs Samoan Schools in Hamilton
6 October vs New Zealand Schools in Auckland
Can't recall if the tour dates have been published or not.
Here they are off the ARU website:
The Australian Schoolboys touring party will travel to Fiji for two fixtures.
22 September vs Fijian President’s XV in Nadi
25 September vs Fijian Schools in Lautoka
The squad will then travel to New Zealand.
29 September vs New Zealand Barbarians in Auckland
2 October vs Samoan Schools in Hamilton
6 October vs New Zealand Schools in Auckland
Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I have to say, without going as far as Newbie, this is bullshit on many levels: a kid who is good enough does not suddenly become not good enough particularly given the (arguably) poor form of his school team. Even when I saw them play he was struggling on the right wing because (to trot out one of my pet concerns) no one in Australian rugby can pass left to right! Therefore the right winger never gets the frigging ball. Therefore Jones, who I gather played left wing for Oz Schools, never gets a chance in his school team.
Wake up and smell the roses Brother whatsyourname.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
He was on the bench and replaced Robinson on the right wing at St. Marys. He was a problem for the Tongans every time he got the ball; not all that often, but enough to perk the interest of people who didn't know him..
I understand that other forum members have seen lapses on defence from him and this must be the reason why he was overlooked for the tour. One never knows though: there may be matters nobody has considered.
The more I've seen of Jones this year, the more he looks like a Ben Tune style of player. I'm not saying he will be at the same level, but right now he is an 16 y.o., 91 kg excitement machine - and very bloody quick. Watch this space in 2013 for Flash Harry.
PS - Inside Shoulder - you are not the only one who has sympathy for right wingers - and I'm not being political here. It is an old song I sing also.
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I understand that other forum members have seen lapses on defence from him and this must be the reason why he was overlooked for the tour. One never knows though: there may be matters nobody has considered.
The more I've seen of Jones this year, the more he looks like a Ben Tune style of player. I'm not saying he will be at the same level, but right now he is an 16 y.o., 91 kg excitement machine - and very bloody quick. Watch this space in 2013 for Flash Harry.
PS - Inside Shoulder - you are not the only one who has sympathy for right wingers - and I'm not being political here. It is an old song I sing also.
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Inside Shoulder
Nathan Sharpe (72)
I was musing on my concern for right wingers after posting this and trying to determine whether the kiwis have a similar problem. It's a long time since I've watched an NZ schools side (at SJC when David Lyons was captain in fact) so I can't remember what I thought back then - other than that Lyons overplayed his hand from the back of the scrum when we got behind: a problem with having a standout 2nd year captain at a funneling point for our ball.
Which is a rambling way of asking whether it is an issue for them?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
CTPE
Nev Cottrell (35)
HJ passes left to right beautifully - it will be interesting to see where Kings play him today given his dominant performance at 12 during the midweek game against the English tourists.
CTPE
Nev Cottrell (35)
As observed in previous posts, especially by Inside Shoulder, his problem in recent Kings games has been not seeing enough of the ball at 14 and this has obviously counted against him.
He'll get a great deal more opportunities at King's next year as a number of this years Firsts outside backs are in year 12 - Tourish (15), Wyllie (11) and Foketi (13) - and will be moving on. This will enable him to showcase his talents to selectors in other positions besides wing particularly fullback where he excelled in 15As & 16As.
Fred Clark
Frank Row (1)
Yes, I'm confused why Horwitz is not in the squad. I just saw him mastermind two incredible victories over Joey's and Riverview. I've rarely seen a schoolboy #10 have so much poise. The other bloke must be good...
Incidentally, I emailed the Scots Head Coach about Friday lunch-time to ask him for comments on today's Scots/Newington game, including his view on Horwitz's non-selection. Somehow, I feel my email will go unanswered. I'll ask him in person today...
As far as passing left-to-right is concerned - yes, it is a very large skill deficiency rooted in our overwhelming left brain / right-handedness. You guys know this, I presume, but it takes an incredible amount of work by skills coaches to build up the dexterity.
A sports science bloke at a clinic told the class that it takes 500 hours of repetition to achieve "competence" in a discrete skill - not "mastery", but competence. One thing we did at basketball training as teenagers was to stick our right hand in our pocket, or down the back of our shorts, and play ball dribbling games only with our left hand for hours and hours and hours... it works!
Indeed, pity the right winger with poor passers to his left.
Incidentally, I emailed the Scots Head Coach about Friday lunch-time to ask him for comments on today's Scots/Newington game, including his view on Horwitz's non-selection. Somehow, I feel my email will go unanswered. I'll ask him in person today...
As far as passing left-to-right is concerned - yes, it is a very large skill deficiency rooted in our overwhelming left brain / right-handedness. You guys know this, I presume, but it takes an incredible amount of work by skills coaches to build up the dexterity.
A sports science bloke at a clinic told the class that it takes 500 hours of repetition to achieve "competence" in a discrete skill - not "mastery", but competence. One thing we did at basketball training as teenagers was to stick our right hand in our pocket, or down the back of our shorts, and play ball dribbling games only with our left hand for hours and hours and hours... it works!
Indeed, pity the right winger with poor passers to his left.
Lee Grant
John Eales (66)
The other guy is not the point. Everybody who was at the Oz Schools v NZ Schools match at Knox last year and saw Jake McIntyre change the game from the bench - or saw him this year for CHS in rep games, or starting for Oz Schools v Tongan Schools this year (he played fullback for NSW) know his quality.
The point is that there is not another specialist flyhalf in the whole squad of 28. At least Horwitz was on the bench at St. Marys last month for the Tonga game in a matchday 23.
I've seen all the Oz squad fellows play over the last two years and a majority of them in both, and there's not one, other than McIntyre, who I have seen start a game at flyhalf. I can't put my hand on my heart and say that none of them was ever been switched to the position during a game I saw, but I can't recall it's happening.
I have no doubt that Tuttle could play any position in the backline because his range of rugby attributes for a back gives him uncommon utility. Perhaps he has played there for Nudgee every now and then. I've posed that question a few times on the forum but never got an answer from Queenslanders.
I'm confused too Fred.
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GTPIH
Ted Thorn (20)
Spoke to a few people at Bellevue Hill today. Horwitz is definately available and willing to tour but was told by ASRU heirarchy that he was not selected on form. WTF!!! He may not have the razzle dazzle of McIntyre but he has been the form 5/8 in GPS since the oz championships and is exactly the sort of player you need against nz.
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