Australian Rugby / RA

[Omar Comin']

What does this have to do with them being unwilling to move the competition 2 weeks to accommodate Test Rugby? They actively discourage players from playing test rugby. Primary driver my ass

And by your logic the world should envy Super rugby due to the Drua and Jaguars?

Nothing, it's to do with whether French club rugby has a positive or negative effect on world rugby. Without French rugby how many Argentinians, Georgians, Fijians, Tongans, Samoans, Portuguese, Spanish, Dutch etc would be playing high level professional rugby? Those test teams are all much, much stronger, and no longer filled with amateur players because of French rugby.

The Drua is great for the sport in Fiji, but outside of this Super Rugby does nothing for international rugby. It is primarily a development competition for Australian and NZ players. French rugby is much more open.

 

[Omar Comin']

Only 2 players in Fiji's most recent 30 man squad play in France. 24 play Super Rugby

Yes because they didn't pick their French based players for the Pacific Nations Cup due to it clashing with the Top 14 (which employs its top players). Compare that to their world cup squad, and particularly their starting team in big games.

 

[Tomthumb]

Yes because they didn't pick their French based players for the Pacific Nations Cup due to it clashing with the Top 14 (which employs its top players). Compare that to their world cup squad, and particularly their starting team in big games.

That’s the whole point I’m making! How is a competition that doesn’t allow players to play international rugby, helping international rugby?

And for reference, the World Cup Squad had 7 French based players and 19 super rugby players

 

[Omar Comin']

That’s the whole point I’m making! How is a competition that doesn’t allow players to play international rugby, helping international rugby?

And for reference, the World Cup Squad had 7 French based players and 19 super rugby players

Because it allows their very very top players to be highly paid stars and still represent Fiji in their most important games, making them considerably more competitive. Top 14 is a big dog in the sport, world rugby needs a calendar that doesn't clash with it for important series.

Yes Fiji now benefit enormously from the Drua as well, but convenient you're not addressing the fact so many other tier 2 teams now have top level professional players, instead of only amateurs, due (almost solely) to French rugby.

 

[PhilClinton]

Hostage? They get paid well to play in the top club league in the world. Before the Drua it was the only top level professional opportunities many of them had. They could be semi-pro or amateur and play for Fiji, or play professionally in Super Rugby etc but not play for Fiji (because all the other club competitions have very few spots for players not eligible for the nation of those clubs).

Fiji have become a genuine threat at test level because their best players can play at the highest level and still represent Fiji.

Talk to a couple of PI players based in France and ask them about the conditions they need to sign in order to get paid the good money. A number of players have been threatened with leave without pay when asking to return home for a death in the family to attend a funeral or take time off with sick children. This is pretty widely known.

It is no wonder that once the Drua started, a lot of Fijians have preferred to play in Super Rugby than Top 14.

Don't act like the Top 14 are somehow all loving and glorious Frenchies giving these poor players a chance at the big time and it has been beneficial to their home nations.

 

[Tomthumb]

Because it allows their very very top players to be highly paid stars and still represent Fiji in their most important games, making them considerably more competitive. Top 14 is a big dog in the sport, world rugby needs a calendar that doesn't clash with it for important series.

Yes Fiji now benefit enormously from the Drua as well, but convenient you're not addressing the fact so many other tier 2 teams now have top level professional players, instead of only amateurs, due (almost solely) to French rugby.

That’s great, but they could do all that while moving the comps start and end date a couple of weeks, right?

The fact you seem to think because they throw money around it should mean they shouldn’t even try to find a middle ground speaks volumes as far as I’m concerned

Stop acting like these clubs are interested in any way helping anyone but themselves. They sign foreign players because they are often cheaper and there aren’t enough good French players available. then put the squeeze on them playing for their country any chance they get

 

[Wallaby Man]

I actually have no issue with clubs behaving like this. Yes it’s not great for the wider game and in an ideal world it wouldn’t happen. But there isn’t anyone pointing a gun at anyone’s head, there is always a choice for players to take a contract elsewhere (probably for less money) and get the conditions they want.

At the end of the day, rugby is a different workplace to what all of us would know, there is zero value in you unless you are on the field. It’s a strange example but what we essentially ask for would be like asking your workplace to go to another workplace for a period of time and potentially coming back with a broken arm and not able to perform your duties correctly but still been expected to be paid properly.

What probably needs to happen is the players in France to unionize and demand a shorter season, but most the clubs are losing entities and expect the owner to clear debts. Until value increases further asking them to play less games and therefore generate less income is expecting them to cover more debt over the year.

 

[Highlander35]

TPOASIWID

 

[JRugby2]

I actually have no issue with clubs behaving like this. Yes it’s not great for the wider game and in an ideal world it wouldn’t happen. But there isn’t anyone pointing a gun at anyone’s head, there is always a choice for players to take a contract elsewhere (probably for less money) and get the conditions they want.

At the end of the day, rugby is a different workplace to what all of us would know, there is zero value in you unless you are on the field. It’s a strange example but what we essentially ask for would be like asking your workplace to go to another workplace for a period of time and potentially coming back with a broken arm and not able to perform your duties correctly but still been expected to be paid properly.

What probably needs to happen is the players in France to unionize and demand a shorter season, but most the clubs are losing entities and expect the owner to clear debts. Until value increases further asking them to play less games and therefore generate less income is expecting them to cover more debt over the year.

Yes but in the case of international players - the value clubs are trying to extract has it's origins in that original 'workplace' being their international teams.

International rugby makes JRL1 and Top 14 better and more marketable, so there has to be give and take.

 

[Wallaby Man]

Yes but in the case of international players - the value clubs are trying to extract has it's origins in that original 'workplace' being their international teams.

International rugby makes JRL1 and Top 14 better and more marketable, so there has to be give and take.

I don’t buy that argument.

I’m not expected to pay back future earnings to my school, university or in other peoples case where they first applied their trade.

 

[Tomthumb]

I actually have no issue with clubs behaving like this. Yes it’s not great for the wider game and in an ideal world it wouldn’t happen. But there isn’t anyone pointing a gun at anyone’s head, there is always a choice for players to take a contract elsewhere (probably for less money) and get the conditions they want.

At the end of the day, rugby is a different workplace to what all of us would know, there is zero value in you unless you are on the field. It’s a strange example but what we essentially ask for would be like asking your workplace to go to another workplace for a period of time and potentially coming back with a broken arm and not able to perform your duties correctly but still been expected to be paid properly.

What probably needs to happen is the players in France to unionize and demand a shorter season, but most the clubs are losing entities and expect the owner to clear debts. Until value increases further asking them to play less games and therefore generate less income is expecting them to cover more debt over the year.

This isn't true though. The contracts are insured and the get paid out if any injuries happen while on international duty

 

[Derpus]

Not sure where to post this but seems like the Frenchies don't like our 20-minute red card suggestion.

France rugby to oppose 20-minute red card plans

French authorities are joining forces with players to oppose plans by World Rugby to change its regulations with the introduction of a 20-minute red card, saying it poses a health risk.

www.espn.com.au

Is there anything to like about French rugby except, maybe, begrudingly, Dupont?

 

[Ignoto]

Is there anything to like about French rugby except, maybe, begrudingly, Dupont?

First they weasel their way out of paying us for rugby matches, then they oppose new ways of playing rugby and now they're going after an innocent Rocky Elsom.

 

[Wilson]

 

[drewprint]

It’s outrageous! First, they avoid paying for matches, then resist new playing styles, and now they’re attacking Rocky Elsom. This behavior is completely unacceptable!

Rhino, what’s your opinion of @Dismal Pillock?

 

[Omar Comin']

That’s great, but they could do all that while moving the comps start and end date a couple of weeks, right?

The fact you seem to think because they throw money around it should mean they shouldn’t even try to find a middle ground speaks volumes as far as I’m concerned

Stop acting like these clubs are interested in any way helping anyone but themselves. They sign foreign players because they are often cheaper and there aren’t enough good French players available. then put the squeeze on them playing for their country any chance they get

I'm not against dates being moved, just making the point that French club rugby has been incredibly important to the growth of global rugby, regardless of the motivation. I would argue that France actually has the best balance between club and international rugby out of anyone, because both generate huge support and commercial success. When I say we should be envious of the Top 14, I mean in the sense that they've essentially got an AFL/NRL style competition AND test rugby.

Imagine a scenario where the rugby codes merged back together and Australian rugby now had the NRL and test rugby, and I think you'd find we'd be in a pretty similar position with the club vs test rugby balance shifting a little further towards the clubs.

I don't think that's a bad thing. Rugby is still a fairly closed shop outside of France and the underdeveloped club game hinders the growth of the sport. In soccer or basketball the best player in the world could come from anywhere and be a household name, even if they never played in the world cup/olympics. This is not the case in rugby.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

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[Highlander35]

I don't mean to break up the circlejerk, but it feels like there has been quite a significant realignment of Club/International Scheduling from European Rugby over the past 5 years.

European clubs shifted their seasons to accommodate for the changing of the June International Window to a July one about 4 years ago (which may have gotten lost in the COVID shenanagins) which theoretically allowed for Super Rugby to run its course as a single uninterrupted competition instead of resuming after the tours.

URC and Premiership, have reduced regular season games from 22 down to 18 games, and the EPCR competitions have been reduced from 9 games down to 8.

The Top 14 semi regularly played its final series deep into June: look at the 2015-16 Top 14 Season, where the final was played on the same weekend as France's 2nd (and final) test against Argentina on the weekend of 25/26 June, now the latest the final is played is that last weekend in June: while the FFR and other Unions may choose not to select players due to fatigue/workload/lack of time to train with the squad, they will be "available" to play without a domestic conflict.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

@Dismal Pillock brings a distinct and often humorous edge to the conversation. His posts can be thought-provoking, satirical, or entertaining, always adding a unique flavor to the discussions. He keeps things interesting!

 

[Dismal Pillock]

thanks, I was off to look for a "violent chunder" GIF myself but you've saved me the effort