Australian Rugby / RA

[Wilson]

Absolutely. It's definitely RA money that is needed. It's obviously incredibly early in the Schmidt era and we have no idea what the plans are for Skelton when available but at this stage it would seem there's a strong indication that Salakaia-Loto is the first lock picked.

Swain and Rodda leaving and Frost falling down the pecking order certainly helps that a lot.

Swain hasn't actually left, he's just gone West. But yes, he's in an excellent negotiating position and a strong rebuke to the initial suggestion that he goes to the tahs would've only strengthened that.

Still though plenty may come down to his wants and desires outside the game. Money (and contract length which might be a bit more important for him right now) can absolute change the equation there, but it's a question of scale.

 

[Braveheart81]

Woops. For some reason I had it in my head that Swain was going to France.

 

[Highlander35]

That is the other factor involved I would guess. None of them are contracted after 2025, so various commitments around cash and/or length of contract are probably desired by all groups to ensure that's it's worthwhile to move to Sydney.

 

[Mick The Munch]

Plus

Woops. For some reason I had it in my head that Swain was going to France.

Only a couple of letters difference

 

[Braveheart81]

That is the other factor involved I would guess. None of them are contracted after 2025, so various commitments around cash and/or length of contract are probably desired by all groups to ensure that's it's worthwhile to move to Sydney.

It's a tricky situation for the players, RA, Waratahs and Schmidt.

For the players at the pointy end, the opinion Schmidt has of them is going to be a big driver in terms of whether they are going to get acceptable offers to stay in Australia. Given we've had one test it's very early in that process.

Those players would quite reasonably want to parlay their 2025 contract into an extension in return for moving to the Waratahs given they don't have to do anything currently and can keep being paid.

Meanwhile RA and the Waratahs need to fill a squad for next season and the longer it takes to do that, the fewer good players that there will be available.

 

[Mick The Munch]

You mustn't disregard the ill will there will be toward RA -

 

[Braveheart81]

You mustn't disregard the ill will there will be toward RA -

Rugby Australia is a pretty nebulous thing to everyone outside but if you're a Super Rugby and Wallaby player the people you specifically have grievances against are generally no longer there and most of your experience is with players, coaches and staff that you are likely close to and you spend a lot of your life with.

 

[Tomthumb]

If they stay and play club footy next year their contract will expire and they will be free to leave

Good for them. Would reveal their character and to be honest players with that attitude won’t be missed

 

[Tomthumb]

Playing club rugby is performing the job they were hired to do, as clearly stated in the terms of their contract and the CBA. If RA need them to do another job they have to negotiate that contract with them, but to call fulfilling those duties in full "not doing a good job" is wrong.

They were signed and paid the money they were to play Super Rugby, and pretending they weren’t is disingenuous

 

[dru]

They were signed and paid the money they were to play Super Rugby, and pretending they weren’t is disingenuous

They were paid to play in a Melbourne Super team. That was allowed to fall. Pretending otherwise is disengenuous.

You've got no idea of the personal issues. No-one in a democratic country like Australia is going to accept being dictated on employment (unless it happens to suit). The issue here, palpably, is the failure of Super Rugby to serve Australia, at least as administered by those in control (primarily Rebels here but also RA). It is clear that reduction in teams is a disaster. Even were all the Rebels training squad to be accommodated, there will be others missing opportunity elsewhere.

A rugby player has a very limited duration for the career, careful steps throughout are required.

Personally I'd hope that the highly emotive, intentional emotional, reporting goes and screws itself. When the dust settles I expect the size of the issue to be smaller than is being claimed.

 

[Bullrush]

Who really will be missing opportunities now that the Rebels are gone?

Players who aren't ready and aren't good enough for Super Rugby - that's who.

The reality is that it would be more disastrous if all the Rebels training squad were accommodated. The bulk of that training squad were able to achieve nothing more than 4-5 wins per year for the last 3 seasons. They were claiming 2024 to be their best season in their 14 year history...a season where they won a little more than a third of their games.

Yes - do what you can to keep players who look to have a strong future in Australia and a desire to play here. But the loss of the rest is, as harsh as it may sound, a good thing overall and in the long term.

 

[Reds Rick]

Good for them. Would reveal their character and to be honest players with that attitude won’t be missed

I really don’t understand takes like this, they signed to play super rugby for the Melbourne Rebels which was a decision they made as it clearly suited them. I don’t know about you but if my employer told me I had to move states to a place I didn’t want to go and had no legal basis to do so I’d be telling them where to go pretty quickly.

These guys aren’t chess pieces on a board, they’re humans with their own agency and personal requirements. Hopefully the Tahs pick up some of these guys but it was arrogant to think they’d just be able to swoop in, have their pick of talent and the players would be so grateful for the privilege.

Also, given the powers that be seem to think clubland is an appropriate 3rd (maybe even 2nd) tier what’s the problem in having these guys run around at that level? I mean, the competition standard is high enough right?

 

[dru]

I really don’t understand takes like this, they signed to play super rugby for the Melbourne Rebels which was a decision they made as it clearly suited them. I don’t know about you but if my employer told me I had to move states to a place I didn’t want to go and had no legal basis to do so I’d be telling them where to go pretty quickly.

These guys aren’t chess pieces on a board, they’re humans with their own agency and personal requirements. Hopefully the Tahs pick up some of these guys but it was arrogant to think they’d just be able to swoop in, have their pick of talent and the players would be so grateful for the privilege.

Also, given the powers that be seem to think clubland is an appropriate 3rd (maybe even 2nd) tier what’s the problem in having these guys run around at that level? I mean, the competition standard is high enough right?

Worse. Your employer tells you that you have to do all that - with a different employer.

 

[Tomthumb]

I really don’t understand takes like this, they signed to play super rugby for the Melbourne Rebels which was a decision they made as it clearly suited them. I don’t know about you but if my employer told me I had to move states to a place I didn’t want to go and had no legal basis to do so I’d be telling them where to go pretty quickly.

These guys aren’t chess pieces on a board, they’re humans with their own agency and personal requirements. Hopefully the Tahs pick up some of these guys but it was arrogant to think they’d just be able to swoop in, have their pick of talent and the players would be so grateful for the privilege.

Also, given the powers that be seem to think clubland is an appropriate 3rd (maybe even 2nd) tier what’s the problem in having these guys run around at that level? I mean, the competition standard is high enough right?

Look, it’s not great what happened. But they are getting paid regardless, and have to relocate regardless, so I personally can’t understand the mindset of refusing to play super rugby and actually trying and be a net positive for Australian rugby and instead playing club rugby and not trying to earn your money the right way

 

[Reds Rick]

Look, it’s not great what happened. But they are getting paid regardless, and have to relocate regardless, so I personally can’t understand the mindset of refusing to play super rugby and actually trying and be a net positive for Australian rugby and instead playing club rugby and not trying to earn your money the right way

I do understand where you’re coming from and without knowing all the behind the scenes machinations it’s hard to have too forceful a view.

However according to the reports it’s not like these guys have said they don’t want to play Super outright - the report indicates a player/players have said they’d rather play club than go to the Tahs. For all we know they could have preferenced 1. Reds 2. Force 3. Brumbies and just said no way for the Tahs and aren't going to be forced there.

 

[stoff]

Look, it’s not great what happened. But they are getting paid regardless, and have to relocate regardless, so I personally can’t understand the mindset of refusing to play super rugby and actually trying and be a net positive for Australian rugby and instead playing club rugby and not trying to earn your money the right way

You seem to be stuck in a nostalgic world where the realities of professional sport don’t apply. These players have contracts to play in Melbourne until they choose to go elsewhere. RA could have continued a Melbourne franchise and these guys would be playing there. RA also strung the decision out for a whole season - just long enough to not let them have a farewell game at AAMI. I’m sure that uncertainty was great for their mental health, They have been treated like shit and you want them to just eat that and move wherever RA need them. This is also now a market where there are 20% fewer jobs available.

 

[Strewthcobber]

I do understand where you’re coming from and without knowing all the behind the scenes machinations it’s hard to have too forceful a view.

However according to the reports it’s not like these guys have said they don’t want to play Super outright - the report indicates a player/players have said they’d rather play club than go to the Tahs. For all we know they could have preferenced 1. Reds 2. Force 3. Brumbies and just said no way for the Tahs and aren't going to be forced there.

Doesn't the report say they have a first preference where they play, and they would rather play club rugby than play anywhere else, not just in NSW?

 

[dru]

Look, it’s not great what happened. But they are getting paid regardless, and have to relocate regardless, so I personally can’t understand the mindset of refusing to play super rugby and actually trying and be a net positive for Australian rugby and instead playing club rugby and not trying to earn your money the right way

We mostly think a 20 yo rugby player is too young for Super, and at 30 it's over. 10 years, that's it. Your whole career. Then in the middle of that the world conspires to fuck everything up. Nothing to do with your own doing but that 10 year clock is ticking down. Ok mate, off to the most expensive place in Australia, to work for an employer that is provably the most incompetent employer in your industry, and your income is guaranteed for the length of your existing contract.

Are you liking any of that?

Now test your options. Noting that you are trying to revive what is left of your 10 years. There are potential employers with the same guarantee that are not the most incompetent, doesn't that already make the shit sandwhich better? Still shit though. And they said no (because your industry thought it was better for them for you go to the incompetent). What about overseas and putting yourself on international competition for your skills? For what is left of your 10 years. OK too late to hit that quickly. You were afterall told to trust "we're doing what we can to look after you". The fact that is true helps not one whit.

Here's an option - temporarily, for the length of your guarantee anyway, lock in with a B grade employer taking it easy, while you test those international waters. Or possibly even an employer that is not the most incompetent. Or that incompetent employer perks up and starts showing promises of being less useless?

On a personal note, my career has taken me international in order to find decent opportunities. It has also, twice, forced me to move to Sydney from Brisbane. Both times cost me 10 years to get back on track. I'm not making it up. 10 years overseas sorted the problem so now I have been able to retire. Nothing like the comfort behind me that friends who managed to stay in Brisbane all along have behind them, but I'll make do.

My career has been roughly 45 years. I've had the chance to re-build twice. I'd be utterly fucked were I a rugby player.

These blokes did not cause this. They should be counselled right now to focus utterly on themselves and on their future. If we are unable in Australia to offer that to them, then they need to find other opportunities. If we are paying them anyway, and we want a better return for our cash, as we should, we need to start getting more creative in what is being offered.

 

[Wilson]

Doesn't the report say they have a first preference where they play, and they would rather play club rugby than play anywhere else, not just in NSW?

Sort of, the strongest it gets is to say that for some players it's their first choice super side or club:

Some feel so strongly about rejecting NSW’s approaches, they have vowed to RA through their agents that they will play club rugby if they are stopped from joining their nominated club.

And that is still very specifically coded as a rejection of NSW above and beyond anything else.

But probably more importantly "some" and "through agents" is doing a bit of heavy lifting there.

 

[Rob42]

But probably more importantly "some" and "through agents" is doing a bit of heavy lifting there.

I think we'll find that News Corp is doing a fair bit of the heavy lifting here. Listen to the Inside Line podcast and you'll get quite a different view of the whole situation.