The Ghost of Raelene
David Codey (61)
Be kinda funny if enough rock up to the same club and go over the points limit and get the club a breach or cant play. Don't know if that's a thing in QLD?
Australian Rugby / RA
- Thread starter Dave Beat
- Start date
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
The standard player contracts have a clause whereby players are employed by their Super Rugby team, unless they get told in writing by RA that RA have become their employer. This has obviously happened to all of the Rebels players. RA are their employer now. RA are entitled to give reasonable directions to players
Separate to that, under the CBA, RA agrees to honour all payment due to players where their Super Rugby team loses it's right to participate (ie what happened to the Rebels)
Also in the CBA, RA agrees that they won't force any player to any other team. It has to be by agreement.
Separate to that, under the CBA, RA agrees to honour all payment due to players where their Super Rugby team loses it's right to participate (ie what happened to the Rebels)
Also in the CBA, RA agrees that they won't force any player to any other team. It has to be by agreement.
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
They were trialing it last year I think (just tracking the points without enforcing caps) but I don't think it ever got anywhere beyond that.
Rebel man
John Thornett (49)
RUPA has been strong that it is in the EBA that they can’t force them to play where they don’t want to.
RA has much to lose they try and get out of the contracts because the players don’t want to become Tahs and then that will trigger a wider exiting
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
Uelese and Kemeny aren't still on the RA dime are they? And Rodda still continued to play Super Rugby right?
I don't have an issue with players going somewhere else and getting contract elsewhere. But if they choose not to play Super Rugby and instead play club rugby, that is a big difference.
I would be surprised if the RA took the 'never again' stance as well. It's just what I would do. And it's not backballing. Anyone else can hire them if they want....I just wouldn't want to re-employ someone who previously didn't want to do the job I hired them for but took the pay.
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
Rodda (alongside Lucas and Hockings) rejected the variation from the Reds (reduced pay during covid) and left to play in France before returning to the Force. Uelese and Kemeny got overseas contracts quickly and took their releases, but why is that different to your idea of penalizing those players still looking to do the same as opposed to continuing with a different super club? That's potentially all choosing club is, preferring to go overseas, it just might take them time to find that opportunity.
As far as blackballing goes, RA is a signatory to all Australian super rugby contracts and without their sign off you don't get one. By saying the wouldn't ever resign them like that it would effectively be blackballing them from the game in Australia. I'm no lawyer but it's probably a fairly grey area that would have to be tested in court. That might be fine if it was an internal stance RA had taken, but to directly express it to those players would leave them without a leg a to stand on.
Again though, playing club rugby is effectively the job they were hired to do now, it is entirely in keeping with their agreement with RA and is a well established principle after the axing of the Force.
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
Are Uelese and Kemeny still being paid by RA?
Playing club rugby may technically fulfill their contractual obligations but it's not the job RA needs them to do.
If no Super Rugby franchise wants them then fine - play club. But if the player is opting not to play Super Rugby then cool.... play club rugby but why should RA have to ever again contract someone who hasn't done a good job for them previously?
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
Playing club rugby is performing the job they were hired to do, as clearly stated in the terms of their contract and the CBA. If RA need them to do another job they have to negotiate that contract with them, but to call fulfilling those duties in full "not doing a good job" is wrong.
I'm not saying taking that choice to play club rugby would be a great choice for their future prospects in Australia, clearly it wouldn't. All I'm saying is there's no sense in (or chance of) blocking them from ever taking a contract in Australia again. It would be wrong legally and ethically and probably even more importantly it would be against RA's long term interests. RA will contract them again in the future if there is value they can bring to a team, just like there was with Izack Rodda (and could be if anyone managed to lure Hockings and Lucas back).
Bullrush
Geoff Shaw (53)
As ethically wrong as choosing to play club rugby instead of Super Rugby where needed and where expected. The amount of money they are being paid is probably linked to the expectation that they would be playing Super Rugby - not club level.
As I said, playing club rugby may fulfill legal obligations but it's not what RA needs. And yeah - if you refuse to do a job that is needed, I would never hire you again. You had an opportunity to do the job previously and you declined but still took my money.
Izack Rodda, Hocking and Lucas are far from irreplaceable - particularly if they have an attitude to play club over Super Rugby. I would argue that bringing them back is against RA's long term interest. Invest in players who want to play top level rugby, not these guys.
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
Look we're at cross purposes here, it looks like we fundamentally disagree on what the individual players' commitment is to RA (and RA's commitment to them) based on the contracts these players have and the CBA that governs them. I don't think we're going to get any further with this.
You'd think Lukhan Salakaia-Loto would be the easiest to persuade to come to the Waratahs.
Joe Schmidt makes it clear that he's central to his plans with the Wallabies but that relies on him playing Super Rugby and staying in Australia. Tahs obviously need a lock and while he wants to go to the Reds, they don't.
If he plays out 2025 with the Tahs and Wallabies he's then in the best spot to get a strong contract heading to the 2027 RWC.
Joe Schmidt makes it clear that he's central to his plans with the Wallabies but that relies on him playing Super Rugby and staying in Australia. Tahs obviously need a lock and while he wants to go to the Reds, they don't.
If he plays out 2025 with the Tahs and Wallabies he's then in the best spot to get a strong contract heading to the 2027 RWC.
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
I'm pretty sure he has significant considerations outside the game (his family/partner being a big one). Beyond that he has might have enough clout to chance it a bit and I don't think RA generally or Schmidt specifically would be too keen to walk too far down the path of saying we need to see you at this specific club to get selected. Aside from that, as much as it would be an overload of locks at the Reds if he ends up there it's unlikely to be Slakaia-Loto missing out on selection. It's much more likely he squeezes one of Blyth, Canham and Smith out of the 23 and Cormac Daly out of the squad.
If RA really want to convince him to head to the tahs it will likely take an upgraded contract with a Wallaby top up (I'm 90% sure he doesn't currently have one).
Ignoto
Peter Sullivan (51)
We can send two native timbers down; Cormac and Vest if LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) wants to return home.
Strewthcobber
Simon Poidevin (60)
LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) currently is "domiciled" in Victoria for his Super Rugby+RA contract. I wonder if RA wanted to play hardball, could they insist the players had to play club rugby in Victoria?
If the player wanted to play club in Queensland, that would mean a change in player registration and the player would be the one requesting a change.
If the player wanted to play club in Queensland, that would mean a change in player registration and the player would be the one requesting a change.
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
Would it though? He's already playe for GPS up in QLD this year and the way the Rebels have played in Brisbane club rugby throughout the super season it's entirely likely he was registered there from the start.
KOB1987
John Eales (66)
I was about to chime in with something similar. One aspect that might be getting ignored amongst us armchair player managers is that negotiations may be subject to negotiations with other players (and their clubs) who may have ended up at a franchise that they may not have otherwise chosen. Cormac Daly a case in point.
You'd think that there would definitely be some carrots to dangle given they have to sign players for the Waratahs regardless and it would be an abject disaster if the Waratahs squad got substantially worse in 2025 than it was this year.
Wilson
Phil Kearns (64)
Oh absolutely, but if you're Lukhan the carrot you're looking for is from RA specifically (not sure the tahs could upgrade his Rebels contract in a $ sense, it's reportedly $600k). If I was in his position I'd be trying to lock in a 2 or ideally 3 year deal to take me through to the World Cup with a good RA component to it.
Absolutely. It's definitely RA money that is needed. It's obviously incredibly early in the Schmidt era and we have no idea what the plans are for Skelton when available but at this stage it would seem there's a strong indication that Salakaia-Loto is the first lock picked.
Swain and Rodda leaving and Frost falling down the pecking order certainly helps that a lot.