Australian Rugby / RA

[Adam84]

Most professional athletes pay for a private coach in there offseason. Most blokes who are half serious at local level sports look to engage these sorts of people

lol, would love to see a source for this,

Unless you’re confusing the F45 group trainer as a ‘private coach’ it’s just simply not true. Who are these off-season coaches you talk of.

 

[Slim 293]

Happy to be corrected, but I'm fairly confident professional Super Rugby players have their off season training managed by their teams, or in some cases RA...

And maybe, those elite players who are earning the top dollars might be able to afford some specialised private training on their own time but I have doubts that would be common practice.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

lol, would love to see a source for this,

Unless you’re confusing the F45 group trainer as a ‘private coach’ it’s just simply not true. Who are these off-season coaches you talk of.

I will say a number of them do go to training facilities like Athletes Authority and alike. I tend to think they are places team S&C approve of and even work out of as contractors so it's more of taking direction from the same guy in a different uniform.

It's a very US thing if you look up the EXOS facilities and what they do for pros in the offseasons.

You also have people like Roger Fabri doing speed work. Not sure if a lot of the Rugby guys go.

 

[Rebel man]

lol, would love to see a source for this,

Unless you’re confusing the F45 group trainer as a ‘private coach’ it’s just simply not true. Who are these off-season coaches you talk of.

If you want to come to Melbourne and work out I’ll DM you some recommendations if you’d like.

But if you are in a city you don’t know I would look up either the ASCA or the NSCA and they will be able to help you find a certified coach.

 

[Adam84]

I don't know how the tahs are responding to these questions behind closed doors, but I don't think "those guys are all gone so it's not a problem anymore" is a good enough answer. If the problem was the head coach overulling the S&C staff then I'd be looking for an explanation of why they didn't (or couldn't) do more to push back (particularly if they're staying) and systems put in place to prevent that from happening again.

all hypotheticals, nothing to suggest injuries were a result of the coach overruling S&C staff

 

[Adam84]

If you want to come to Melbourne and work out I’ll DM you some recommendations if you’d like.

But if you are in a city you don’t know I would look up either the ASCA or the NSCA and they will be able to help you find a certified coach.

No need to DM, just post the source here to support the comment that "Most professional athletes pay for a private coach in there offseason" getting one on one training

 

[Wilson]

all hypotheticals, nothing to suggest injuries were a result of the coach overruling S&C staff

Sure, it's all hypothetical from the outside. The important part for me though (if I was a player considering heading to the tahs) would be them demonstrating that they had considered what went wrong and were taking action to make sure it didn't happen again, specifically with regard to systems and processes. Claiming it was all down to people who are no longer with the organisation wouldn't fill me with confidence that it had been properly addressed and wouldn't happen again.

 

[Adam84]

I will say a number of them do go to training facilities like Athletes Authority and alike. I tend to think they are places team S&C approve of and even work out of as contractors so it's more of taking direction from the same guy in a different uniform.

It's a very US thing if you look up the EXOS facilities and what they do for pros in the offseasons.

You also have people like Roger Fabri doing speed work. Not sure if a lot of the Rugby guys go.

Yeah, absolutely. Players use local gyms of varying quality; plenty of Reds use F45, and others use gyms like Athletes Authority, but that's a bit different to claiming that most professional players hire a private coach for the off-season.

I worked with the Eels and Rabbitohs previously. Some players just surfed every day in the off season, and others used to meet for their own cardio group sessions mixed with gym sessions. Certainly, weren't 30-odd private coaches engaging the players, though.

Anyway, it's a bit irrelevant as @Rebel man is trying to push the agenda justifying why Rebels players should simply play club rugby instead..

 

[Bullrush]

No it won’t. International clubs will still come and make them good offers. Not playing the year won’t hurt them, I mean it’s not like Quade Cooper had no offers and is earning more than he could in Aus

The only anywhere close to QC (Quade Cooper) is Tupou.

Not playing for a year would definitely hurt most of them. None of them have been standout players or contributed to a successful team. Tupou is the only one who has that kind of leverage.

 

[Rebel man]

No need to DM, just post the source here to support the comment that "Most professional athletes pay for a private coach in there offseason" getting one on one training

It is common knowledge.
Jordan DeGoey famously went to Cali in his off season to get fit then made the news for a bar fight on New Year’s Eve.

A whole group of Essendon players went on a self funded training camp in the US over their off season and now look likely to break a finals drought almost on par with our Bledisloe cup drought.

But keep telling yourself their only other option is F45

 

[Bullrush]

To some degree, though taking a full contract with only club commitments does make this a bit easier than it might otherwise be, particularly if there's a group of them doing it in the one city (and ideally at the one club). Overall though the goal probably wouldn't be a whole season of club rugby, it'd be keeping yourself available to take a contract elsewhere in short order. Once they agree to the variation and head to the tahs (or any other aus super side) they can't take an early exit anymore.

The other side of that is you might be a skeptical as a front rower heading to the tahs right now, certainly I'd be asking a lot of questions about what went wrong this year and what they're doing to ensure it doesn't happen again. Not sure I'd chance my career on "it was bad luck" as the response.

If I was RA, the only way I would allow this was if there was no Super Rugby franchise who wanted that player and that's why they are playing club. If the player is playing club rugby by their own decision, I wouldn't let them out of their contract to go anywhere else.

Unless there was an agreement to have the wages that were paid during the period the player refused to work reimbursed.

Again - if the players don't want to go to where the work is, offer a redundancy and let them go.

 

[Braveheart81]

It is common knowledge.
Jordan DeGoey famously went to Cali in his off season to get fit then made the news for a bar fight on New Year’s Eve.

A whole group of Essendon players went on a self funded training camp in the US over their off season and now look likely to break a finals drought almost on par with our Bledisloe cup drought.

But keep telling yourself their only other option is F45

Outside of Tupou, there's a fair discrepancy between what De Goey and other upper tier AFL players earn and what most of the players in question here would earn.

 

[Braveheart81]

If I was RA, the only way I would allow this was if there was no Super Rugby franchise who wanted that player and that's why they are playing club. If the player is playing club rugby by their own decision, I wouldn't let them out of their contract to go anywhere else.

Unless there was an agreement to have the wages that were paid during the period the player refused to work reimbursed.

Again - if the players don't want to go to where the work is, offer a redundancy and let them go.

If the players don't want to play at a location that RA wants them to play then surely the next best option is to be able to release these players and not pay them at all.

It would also make it very difficult for RA to offer any of these players a top up contract after their current contract expires if they haven't been playing for a year. A decision to play club rugby would be pretty likely to be the last Australian contract for these guys before heading overseas.

 

[Rebel man]

Outside of Tupou, there's a fair discrepancy between what De Goey and other upper tier AFL players earn and what most of the players in question here would earn.

There is also a fair discrepancy between getting a local coach and finding an international coach so you can maintain your training while on holiday

 

[Rebel man]

If the players don't want to play at a location that RA wants them to play then surely the next best option is to be able to release these players and not pay them at all.

It would also make it very difficult for RA to offer any of these players a top up contract after their current contract expires if they haven't been playing for a year. A decision to play club rugby would be pretty likely to be the last Australian contract for these guys before heading overseas.

Why should they get released? They are entitled to get paid. But the other part is right if they opt out for the year they will likely never play super rugby again

 

[Bullrush]

The notion that Taniela Tupou, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Rob Leota, Isaac Kailea, David Feluiai and Pone Fa’amausili are going to tie their futures to Darby Lancaster, Matt Gibbon, Lachie Anderson, Ethan Dobbins and Lukas Ripley so they can give RA and the middle finger and go to the US on a self-funded training camp is hilarious.

If the players don't want to play at a location that RA wants them to play then surely the next best option is to be able to release these players and not pay them at all.

I thought they are obliged to pay them? Isn't that the problem? RA is still on the hook to fulfill their contract regardless of where they are playing?

If that's not the case then yeah - I agree with you.

 

[Braveheart81]

I thought they are obliged to pay them? Isn't that the problem? RA is still on the hook to fulfill their contract regardless of where they are playing?

If that's not the case then yeah - I agree with you.

Yes, absolutely RA is obliged to pay them unless all parties agree to terminate the contract.

You previously said "If the player is playing club rugby by their own decision, I wouldn't let them out of their contract to go anywhere else."

In that situation, why wouldn't RA agree to release them so they could stop paying their contract? It isn't like they're getting any value out of them.

 

[Slim 293]

It is common knowledge.
Jordan DeGoey famously went to Cali in his off season to get fit then made the news for a bar fight on New Year’s Eve.

Paid for by Monster Energy...

A whole group of Essendon players went on a self funded training camp in the US over their off season and now look likely to break a finals drought almost on par with our Bledisloe cup drought.

And a one off, off-season trip before returning to their premier competition.

 

[Bullrush]

The notion that Taniela Tupou, Lukhan Salakaia-Loto, Rob Leota, Isaac Kailea, David Feluiai and Pone Fa’amausili are going to tie their futures to Darby Lancaster, Matt Gibbon, Lachie Anderson, Ethan Dobbins and Lukas Ripley so they can give RA and the middle finger and go to the US on a self-funded training camp is hilarious.

Kailea, Feluiai and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) are in the Wallaby frame right now and Pone and Leota probably are not far from it.

If they want to represent Australia - with all the advantages that brings - they don't have a huge amount of options.

 

[Rebel man]

Yes, absolutely RA is obliged to pay them unless all parties agree to terminate the contract.

You previously said "If the player is playing club rugby by their own decision, I wouldn't let them out of their contract to go anywhere else."

In that situation, why wouldn't RA agree to release them so they could stop paying their contract? It isn't like they're getting any value out of them.

Ah yep I agree with you now on this. If they are refusing to play for the Tahs they are eyeing off moves overseas so it is best for all parties to rip the band aid off and get it done