Australian Rugby / RA

[Dan54]

Yes, it makes sense for NZR and the harsh reality is the Wallabies hasn't been competetive enough for 20 years+ for our complaints to carry any weight.

I believe (based on a podcast with Dan Herbert earlier this year) that this tour did require SANZAAR sign-off and involved some compensation to Aus & Argentina.

Looking at the positives, perhaps further opens the door to an ANZAC test in April as well.

Yep Herbert did say he thought the Wallabies needed to be in a position that they were attractive for theses ideas. I have no opinion on that, just I do like the idea of Boks touring here and ABs to SA very much. But I was under the idea there had been arrangements made to help a bit of compensation.

 

[Braveheart81]

The argument is always that Australia only has enough talent for 3-4 Super Rugby teams and therefore we need to cut teams to strengthen the competition. But you could also just have 3-4 teams worth of Australian players spread throughout the comp. Or even 3-4 Australian dominant teams and 1-2 (based in Oz) that have a lot more international players (including some All Blacks eligible kiwis). My main point is that teams should be located in the major commercial markets with efforts to even out the playing talent across the competition. Teams shouldn't go 10+ years without ever being a chance of winning something. There's a few different ways RA and NZR could do that.

The problem is we only have enough money to pay for a certain level of talent.

I absolutely think we could increase the quality of our squads by increasing the number of New Zealanders. They would definitely fill out the back end of squads with better players for the same sort of price.

I think there is zero desire in NZRU having less control over their players so it is never going to happen for anyone with half a chance of playing for the All Blacks. So the reality of it would just be lower end squad Super Rugby players in New Zealand becoming matchday 23 players here and players outside of Super Rugby squads making the back end of a squad here.

I absolutely agree that if there was a desire to make the competition more even then it could be done but that would have to come from New Zealand and I can't see there being any likelihood that it would happen.

 

[Sully]

The lack of talent argument has always been bullshit. What we have always lacked is quality coaching. We have plenty of talent.

 

[Omar Comin']

I think there is zero desire in NZRU having less control over their players so it is never going to happen for anyone with half a chance of playing for the All Blacks. So the reality of it would just be lower end squad Super Rugby players in New Zealand becoming matchday 23 players here and players outside of Super Rugby squads making the back end of a squad here.

I absolutely agree that if there was a desire to make the competition more even then it could be done but that would have to come from New Zealand and I can't see there being any likelihood that it would happen.

NZ Rugby could still have certain levels of control over any All Blacks, or potential All Blacks playing for Australian clubs, and vice versa (especially in terms of load management, availability for camps etc). But you're right that any changes would need significant buy in from NZ. They surely see the threats from French and Japanese rugby, not to mention the NRL which is perhaps the biggest one. Trying to grow Super Rugby Pacific into something more competitive with the NRL and Top 14 etc is in their interests. I think both unions need to be more unified outside of test rugby. The new joint venture and competition CEO etc are hopefully only the first steps in this direction.

 

[Adam84]

The lack of talent argument has always been bullshit. What we have always lacked is quality coaching. We have plenty of talent.

Lack of coaching and a lack of depth in player development..

talented players still need 2-3 years of professional environment development before been thrown in the deep end starting Super Rugby. Lack of depth means too many are missing this pivotal piece.

 

[half]

Does anyone have any information pertaining to the break up of Super Rugby crowds. Things like gender spilt, age of those attending etc.

 

[Dan54]

The problem is we only have enough money to pay for a certain level of talent.

I absolutely think we could increase the quality of our squads by increasing the number of New Zealanders. They would definitely fill out the back end of squads with better players for the same sort of price.

I think there is zero desire in NZRU having less control over their players so it is never going to happen for anyone with half a chance of playing for the All Blacks. So the reality of it would just be lower end squad Super Rugby players in New Zealand becoming matchday 23 players here and players outside of Super Rugby squads making the back end of a squad here.

I absolutely agree that if there was a desire to make the competition more even then it could be done but that would have to come from New Zealand and I can't see there being any likelihood that it would happen.

And there lies one of big problems BH. Money , and even in if NZR said ok ABs can play for Aus teams, who are the flush super teams in Aus that can afford them? Good players cost more money, which is the problem isn't it? I can imaine if a super team in Aus was going to somehow get an AB to go there, they are going to drop off at least one or 2 good quality Aus players to afford them.

 

[SouthernX]

.

And there lies one of big problems BH. Money , and even in if NZR said ok ABs can play for Aus teams, who are the flush super teams in Aus that can afford them? Good players cost more money, which is the problem isn't it? I can imaine if a super team in Aus was going to somehow get an AB to go there, they are going to drop off at least one or 2 good quality Aus players to afford them.

Same issue kiwi franchises face .. grass is greener elsewhere (French & Japanese club raids)

Think the Aussie clubs have benefit over kiwi clubs for ABs is lifestyle. Trans Tasman immigration is one way & there’d be some kiwis dying to come enjoy this superior lifestyle

 

[kiap]

And there lies one of big problems BH. Money , and even in if NZR said ok ABs can play for Aus teams, who are the flush super teams in Aus that can afford them?

He's already opined that NZR won't okay ABs for Aus teams, so the question is moot.

If you look at the situation of NZR (or, indeed, many other national unions, including RA) then you'll already know that it works the other way round.

Does NZR's "ok" allow ABs to go to Japan? Nah. The money in Japan pulls players there ... then NZR has to work around that. You've put the cart before the horse.

The challenge for NZR and RA (either separately or together) is to change their own structures for their pro games to survive -- or ... decide if they want to stay in that game.

 

[Braveheart81]

Think the Aussie clubs have benefit over kiwi clubs for ABs is lifestyle. Trans Tasman immigration is one way & there’d be some kiwis dying to come enjoy this superior lifestyle

It's mostly based around employment opportunities isn't it?

It's easier to get a better paid job in Australia than New Zealand with similar skillsets. Cost of living in Australia is also much higher.

For a rugby player, you'd potentially need to be paid more to live in Australia than NZ because all your costs are going to be substantially higher.

 

[SouthernX]

It's mostly based around employment opportunities isn't it?

It's easier to get a better paid job in Australia than New Zealand with similar skillsets. Cost of living in Australia is also much higher.

For a rugby player, you'd potentially need to be paid more to live in Australia than NZ because all your costs are going to be substantially higher.

Is the cost of living that much different Oz to NZ?

when I’ve holidayed there always found it to be more expensive (granted I could be in tourist traps & I’ve never had to pay rent or utilities)

 

[RebelYell]

Try going to a superrmarket or a petrol station in NZ before you consider suggesting that the cost of living is much higher in AU...

 

[Braveheart81]

when I’ve holidayed there always found it to be more expensive (granted I could be in tourist traps & I’ve never had to pay rent or utilities)

Try going to a superrmarket or a petrol station in NZ before you consider suggesting that the cost of living is much higher in AU...

Yeah, but with the very large amount of money I'd have left over after selling my house in Sydney and buying a comparable one in a major city in NZ I wouldn't be too upset.

 

[Dctarget]

hypothetical: if we had open slather Wallaby selection like the Springboks for the past 5 years, would we have lost fewer players to other test teams who qualified through residency (e.g. Meafou, Riley)?

Would we have capped them before their secondary nations did? I imagine the heritage ones like Tuipulotu and Hansen would've still been lost.

 

[Strewthcobber]

hypothetical: if we had open slather Wallaby selection like the Springboks for the past 5 years, would we have lost fewer players to other test teams who qualified through residency (e.g. Meafou, Riley)?

Would we have capped them before their secondary nations did? I imagine the heritage ones like Tuipulotu and Hansen would've still been lost.

With many exceptions, at a high enough level, players are going to represent the nation that earns them the most money.

That may be Australia if they get an RA top-up, or their French club wants players available during six nations, or it might be the nation they move to (eg Hansen).

Absent RA top-up contracts in the mix, and an open selection process, a lot more of our players will at least be open to the conversation to move OS for money and potentially represent other countries, and many/most of our players would be almost immediately eligible for another country through birth/parents/grandparents.

I think we would probably lose more players than we gained

 

[Dctarget]

With many exceptions, at a high enough level, players are going to represent the nation that earns them the most money.

That may be Australia if they get an RA top-up, or their French club wants players available during six nations, or it might be the nation they move to (eg Hansen).

Absent RA top-up contracts in the mix, and an open selection process, a lot more of our players will at least be open to the conversation to move OS for money and potentially represent other countries, and many/most of our players would be almost immediately eligible for another country through birth/parents/grandparents.

I think we would probably lose more players than we gained

Tuipulotu and Hansen's big pay packets would've been contingent on their availability for the Scotland and Ireland respectively.

Meafou's and Riley's original pay wouldn't have been. I wouldn't underestimate the boys' desires to get paid heaps, live OS but still pull on the Gold. I'd be confident saying that Meafou would much rather be a Wallaby than a Bleu. Toulouse would still happily pay him buckets even if he's unavailable for France a la the Arnolds.

 

[Strewthcobber]

. I'd be confident saying that Meafou would much rather be a Wallaby than a Bleu. Toulouse would still happily pay him buckets even if he's unavailable for France a la the Arnolds.

Toulouse probably pays him more if he chooses Samoa though, and only plays for them in WCs.

Him playing for France would be his clubs least favourite option as he wouldn't be available during 6 nations.

 

[Wilson]

hypothetical: if we had open slather Wallaby selection like the Springboks for the past 5 years, would we have lost fewer players to other test teams who qualified through residency (e.g. Meafou, Riley)?

Would we have capped them before their secondary nations did? I imagine the heritage ones like Tuipulotu and Hansen would've still been lost.

It's doubtful for most rookies I think. I don't think Riley was ever in the frame for the Wallabies. Meafou maybe, but the French were keen on him and they gave him his first proper shot at the pros. Generally speaking those guys who've done residency have been pretty committed to their new nation and I can't see them jumping on an 11th hour call up for the wallabies that might have just looked like an eligibility lock in.

If there's anyone we might've kept in that situation it's guys like Dempsey and Coleman - players who had fallen out of wallabies frame but might have been kept in it if we were free to pick them wherever they were. We might have also lost more to though, with guys heading os sooner and not being as front of mind for wallaby selection, or other p[layers who were blocked because we keep picking the guys that have gone overseas and deciding to explore their options outside of the wallabies.

 

[Mick The Munch]

Pah, at least he didn't call them the Jillaroos?

So, oh great GAGR community - who agrees that our "experience of following the Wallabies, Wallaroos, and our Super Rugby clubs remains best-in-class" ?

Speaking on the partnership, Rugby Australia’s Chief Commercial Officer, James Durbin, said: “This deal marks the latest example of our commitment to our fans – ensuring that their experience of following the Wallabies, Wallaroos, and our Super Rugby clubs remains best-in-class, and that our fans can show support for their team no matter where they are in the world.

“Particularly as the Wallaroos prepare for the 2025 Women’s Rugby World Cup, and Australia is on the precipice of welcoming the British & Irish Lions in 2025, and Rugby World Cup in 2027, we look forward to showcasing the best of Rugby in Australia".

Rugby Australia Partners with Fanatics to Launch New Global eCommerce Destination for Fans

www.rugby.com.au

 

[Bullrush]

Think the Aussie clubs have benefit over kiwi clubs for ABs is lifestyle. Trans Tasman immigration is one way & there’d be some kiwis dying to come enjoy this superior lifestyle

Think again.

Kiwis come here primarily for the employment opportunities and income boost. Ultimately, those things do make up part of the 'superior lifestyle' but there a heap of things that make for a better lifestyle back home. Deeper, richer cultural connections, better food, the relationship with our indigenous people and the rugby are all better back home IMHO.

In saying that - Australia is a great country and I love living here too. But the money is a big part of that and money can't fully satisfy the gaps that those other things leave.