Australian Rugby / RA

[Dan54]

State based academies were only started back up in 2014 after RA disbanded the national model after only 2 years. It was such a waste, previous state structures were disbanded and staff lost for something that lasted barely 24 months.

I actually thought Qld at least had an academy earlier than that Adam. I sure mate's son was in their academyover 10 years ago. Think it was when Link MacKenzie was coach. Memory might be playing up but his boy that was in it is well inot his 30s now. Maybe only Qld had one or something.

 

[PhilClinton]

I actually thought Qld at least had an academy earlier than that Adam. I sure mate's son was in their academyover 10 years ago. Think it was when Link MacKenzie was coach. Memory might be playing up but his boy that was in it is well inot his 30s now. Maybe only Qld had one or something.

There was a program called the National Talent Squad (NTS) and they trained out of Ballymore during the 2000s. From memory, school aged and colts grade players were selected in each state, but the program itself was funded by the ARU. I think for example Matt To'omua was part of that program and training at Ballymore but because it was a national program, the Reds didn't have him locked up, hence him going to the Brumbies.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

AIS had a program as well through the 2000s and probably earlier.

I’m a fan of what is currently happening. Mostly through the fact they are playing each other far more often. 16s, 18, 19s is getting a lot more into them than the long weekend carnivals. NSW and QLD also played 15s.

I know some people don’t like the younger ones because it seems too many miss out and the ones picked are protected. I’d make NSW and QLD pick at least 2 sides in the younger age groups. Also making games better with other States.

 

[PhilClinton]

Yep the actual time, strategy and investment spent now is miles ahead of what the NTS and AIS had going.

I recall one year the NTS was made up virtually of sons of all the retired QLD/Wallabies who were still sniffing around the QRU. Around 6 of the blokes in this 'elite squad' couldn't even make the 4ths at their school and I'm fairly sure most of them stopped playing rugby all together once they graduated and moved out of home. It was a bit of a shambles.

 

[Adam84]

Good on them if they are performing with a limited budget, I guess Adam is not interested in a success story.
The weaknesses are there to a lesser extent in the Brumbies but it is on full show at the Wallabies and we can't move up until we fix this issue. The Academies are a part of the problem.

That’s a funny interpretation of what has been said, I’ve been defending the work of the individuals working in the academies against your criticism.

Again; blaming chronically underfunded academies on the current plight of Australian Rugby is ignoring the real issues that exist, and also ignores the good work that these individuals are doing even with limited resources available and increasing competition from other codes.

 

[Adam84]

AIS had a program as well through the 2000s and probably earlier.

I’m a fan of what is currently happening. Mostly through the fact they are playing each other far more often. 16s, 18, 19s is getting a lot more into them than the long weekend carnivals. NSW and QLD also played 15s.

I know some people don’t like the younger ones because it seems too many miss out and the ones picked are protected. I’d make NSW and QLD pick at least 2 sides in the younger age groups. Also making games better with other States.

AIS is Olympic sport focussed now and fund 7’s with a decent sum.
There has been a number of realignments since the national academy was disbanded…. Remember Super Rugby U20s program, that was created, and then scrapped also, there are consistently shiftings objectives and goal posts from the national level.

Reds are pretty transparent about the structure now from U15 to Colts, not perfect as it has to map against schools programs, but a pathway at least.

 

[stillmissit]

That’s a funny interpretation of what has been said, I’ve been defending the work of the individuals working in the academies against your criticism.

Again; blaming chronically underfunded academies on the current plight of Australian Rugby is ignoring the real issues that exist, and also ignores the good work that these individuals are doing even with limited resources available and increasing competition from other codes.

So you and Ghost believe the Academies are doing a sterling job and their heroic work against RA's refusal to fund them well enough, had nothing to do with the piss poor Super Rugby and Wallabies' efforts.

Can you please explain this conundrum to me:
I understand RA's, the coaching and player supply issues very well, so explain what the academies have been doing over the last 10 years to improve and develop the players who have filled our Super Rugby leading to Wallabies positions. It strikes me the current solution is to export all our young talent for 4-5 years then bring them back better players! Is that correct?

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

I think they can always do better and there are definitely things to be improved, mostly in expanding them IMO.

My point is that the current academy model is far better than anything that has been in place since the game has been professional.

It may be doom and gloom at the top of the spear or butter knife currently but our 20s would be a top 5 side in the world more years than not. We lack the link from academy/under age teams to professional sides.

 

[Slim 293]

So you and Ghost believe the Academies are doing a sterling job and their heroic work against RA's refusal to fund them well enough, had nothing to do with the piss poor Super Rugby and Wallabies' efforts.

Did you think this sentence through?

 

[LevitatingSocks]

At the risk of courting controversy, is there a consensus on whether Brisbane/Sydney GPS schools taking league prospects on scholarship to play rugby union for a few years is a net positive or net negative?

Pros: exposure, puts eyes and exposure on union, could potentially put the thought of switching back to rugby into the minds of a few, raises the talent level future super rugby players compete against

Cons: terrible look to have your sport treated like a development program, takes the spot of someone otherwise more inclined to play rugby

I was having this discussion with friends that went to Terrace and Nudgee today and we couldn't come to a definite consensus. Genuinely curious to have others here weigh in.

 

[noscrumnolife]

At the risk of courting controversy, is there a consensus on whether Brisbane/Sydney GPS schools taking league prospects on scholarship to play rugby union for a few years is a net positive or net negative?

Pros: exposure, puts eyes and exposure on union, could potentially put the thought of switching back to rugby into the minds of a few, raises the talent level future super rugby players compete against

Cons: terrible look to have your sport treated like a development program, takes the spot of someone otherwise more inclined to play rugby

I was having this discussion with friends that went to Terrace and Nudgee today and we couldn't come to a definite consensus. Genuinely curious to have others here weigh in.

I think in absence of a proper coordinated professional development program (ie productive academies) and an attractive pathway for juniors into Super (which they're obviously isn't at the moment, at least compared to NRL) it is not particularly positive for the sport of Rugby Union. However, if those things did exist, it could certainly be turned into a positive, as it would make it far easier to attract the best talent into Union. At the end of the day, the best and most talented players win you games, and maximising the chance of making those talents Union players is a positive. That doesn't happen at the moment however.

Your mileage on whether its a good thing for the schools themselves to be engaged in arms races of their own for the best talent in order to achieve the vanity project that is winning a 1st XV Championship (as opposed to just developing a good rugby program for your students) may vary. I'm personally not a fan, but its the world we live in, schools offering scholarships to high calibre sporting youths is hardly unique to Australian Rugby.

 

[PhilClinton]

The official arrangements between NRL/AFL teams and these traditional rugby schools is a fair bit of opportunistic succession planning from the schools and there is no way they’re going to stop. Rugby will die off as professional game long before these schools stop running.

 

[half]

they’re pissing into the wind when they walk into a meeting with a schoolboy athlete who has already sat down with the Broncos/ Dolphins/ Lions/ Cowboys. Whereas 15 years ago different story.

NRL salary cap 11.25 million in 24, increasing to 11.7 million by 2027.

AFL salary cap, 13.5 million,

Super Rugby Salary cap, 5.5 million,

NRL 17 teams hoping to increase to 18 teams, AFL 18 teams hoping to increase to 20 teams.

Both the NRL & AFL, can use rugby athletes.

From around U 14 on both NRL & AFL pay considerable money, by the time players are between 16 & 18, SB Bull & Jersey Flegg sides pay good money and also are required to sent players for tertiary education / training at uni or TAFE if they have left school. AFL have similar but more advanced.

Puts on helmet, the Super Rugby expansion with a PI team, how does a population of less than a million mostly poor people help us. our decision making IMO lets us down a lot.

 

[Adam84]

So you and Ghost believe the Academies are doing a sterling job and their heroic work against RA's refusal to fund them well enough, had nothing to do with the piss poor Super Rugby and Wallabies' efforts.

Can you please explain this conundrum to me:
I understand RA's, the coaching and player supply issues very well, so explain what the academies have been doing over the last 10 years to improve and develop the players who have filled our Super Rugby leading to Wallabies positions. It strikes me the current solution is to export all our young talent for 4-5 years then bring them back better players! Is that correct?

Again no, I’ve said from my first post on this issue that chronically underfunding academies has a direct result on outputs.

Fund and resource programs appropriately over time with national alignment on structures and pathways, and the performances at Super Rugby and Test level would absolutely improve.

if you disagree with that statement, then so be it..but we’re going round in circles now

 

[wamberal99]

At the risk of courting controversy, is there a consensus on whether Brisbane/Sydney GPS schools taking league prospects on scholarship to play rugby union for a few years is a net positive or net negative?

Count me as a neutral. It's just a fact of life.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

At the risk of courting controversy, is there a consensus on whether Brisbane/Sydney GPS schools taking league prospects on scholarship to play rugby union for a few years is a net positive or net negative?

Pros: exposure, puts eyes and exposure on union, could potentially put the thought of switching back to rugby into the minds of a few, raises the talent level future super rugby players compete against

Cons: terrible look to have your sport treated like a development program, takes the spot of someone otherwise more inclined to play rugby

I was having this discussion with friends that went to Terrace and Nudgee today and we couldn't come to a definite consensus. Genuinely curious to have others here weigh in.

First thought is negative out of pure reaction but in reality it does make the quality higher in the competitions to have more talent in it.

Does a boy who is all about Rugby maybe miss a spot in his schools 1sts? Maybe, but if he couldn’t get the spot he couldn’t get the spot.

I can also see a potential benefit in Rugby being in these players minds. They all come up for contract by the time they are 21 again and why can’t Rugby be one of the options for them…

 

[Clubhouse coach]

NRL salary cap 11.25 million in 24, increasing to 11.7 million by 2027.

AFL salary cap, 13.5 million,

Super Rugby Salary cap, 5.5 million,

NRL 17 teams hoping to increase to 18 teams, AFL 18 teams hoping to increase to 20 teams.

Both the NRL & AFL, can use rugby athletes.

From around U 14 on both NRL & AFL pay considerable money, by the time players are between 16 & 18, SB Bull & Jersey Flegg sides pay good money and also are required to sent players for tertiary education / training at uni or TAFE if they have left school. AFL have similar but more advanced.

Puts on helmet, the Super Rugby expansion with a PI team, how does a population of less than a million mostly poor people help us. our decision making IMO lets us down a lot.

Interesting figures, although I am pretty sure that the Super Rugby cap was reduced during COVID and hasn’t gone back up to pre COVID amount. Sitting at just under four million currently. Last year the AFL distributed 272 million to its clubs, expansion clubs received 25 million each, Sydney Swans 16 million. NRL funding to the Melbourne Storm is around 14 million. Super Rugby fighting with both hands tied behind it’s back.

 

[Wallaby Man]

So you and Ghost believe the Academies are doing a sterling job and their heroic work against RA's refusal to fund them well enough, had nothing to do with the piss poor Super Rugby and Wallabies' efforts.

Can you please explain this conundrum to me:
I understand RA's, the coaching and player supply issues very well, so explain what the academies have been doing over the last 10 years to improve and develop the players who have filled our Super Rugby leading to Wallabies positions. It strikes me the current solution is to export all our young talent for 4-5 years then bring them back better players! Is that correct?

You do realise the academies haven’t been around for 10yrs. They were scrapped for a number of years and only returned a few years ago. I remember Laurie Fisher making comment only a few years ago that it was a terrible idea to stop funding for them and called for their return, which has happened in limited capacity in recent years.

 

[stillmissit]

Did you think this sentence through?

A bit more closely than your reply.

 

[stillmissit]

First thought is negative out of pure reaction but in reality it does make the quality higher in the competitions to have more talent in it.

Does a boy who is all about Rugby maybe miss a spot in his schools 1sts? Maybe, but if he couldn’t get the spot he couldn’t get the spot.

I can also see a potential benefit in Rugby being in these players minds. They all come up for contract by the time they are 21 again and why can’t Rugby be one of the options for them…

Ghost I wonder how long it might be before these schools have a league team?