Australian Rugby / RA

[The Ghost of Raelene]

What is the proposed structure?

 

[Homer]

What is the proposed structure?

Herbert said they are still working through it but hard to see how Vic and WA could be involved unless it is a rep side. Tuggeranong could support a great team in ACT as they have more money than RA but it would destroy the local comp.

 

[oztimmay]

If it ran in VIC it would likely look like the ACT model; Quins or Unicorns would field a side, with most of the talent driving to the clubs playing in the national 3rd tier. Would create a massive imbalance in paying tock, and the comp in general.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

This is going to be an absolute rabbit hole I don't know if I can handle after the last few days of tail chasing.

ACT comp deserves better than to be gutted. If I had to write it on a white board real quick my option would be
Top 4 SS
Top 4 QPR
Top 2 JID
Vic rep side
WA Rep side

10 teams. At least with 4 sides in NSW/QLD you don't purely end up with 1 like Uni buying everyone. Competition throughout the season to qualify.

2 Mins of thought went into that. Shoot it apart. Should probably go into the thread https://greenandgoldrugby.com/community/threads/having-no-nrc-is-better-how.19303/

Although I've always maintained to run Super Rugby A and use all the facilities, coaching and systems in place.

 

[Adam84]

Model I’ve heard pushed; admittedly from someone with vested interest, is exclusively a QLD v NSW championship tournament with top teams from both playing each other in one division, and bottom teams from other playing in a seperate division.

No rep teams or JVs, purely club tournament with NSW & QLD.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

And we wonder why the ACT are so jumpy.

I could get behind it as long as there is a plan for after a year or two to bring in ACT and others. I understand they want something now but don't just do it because fuck it why not.

 

[Homer]

The ACT has done a pretty good job of spreading the talent load across the clubs, which has lead to a tight comp and multiple winners in the last few years. When they had a team in the SS though a lot of players saw the Vikings as their best chance to get noticed. Same will happen here when boys realise you need to play for regular finalist teams like SU and Eastwood or Easts. Anyway they do it the womens team and colts should be involved as it is about keeping people involved and providing pathways.

If we are relying on broadcast dollars to fund it then it will struggle as well, we need to create new revenue streams.

 

[Members Section]

If it ran in VIC it would likely look like the ACT model; Quins or Unicorns would field a side, with most of the talent driving to the clubs playing in the national 3rd tier. Would create a massive imbalance in paying tock, and the comp in general.

It couldn't be unicorns because of their ground, you would think it would either would be quins or EH because of the facility.

But my money would be that it would be the rising playing a mixture of clubs grounds & the training field at gosch's. Would be cool though to showcase club rugby in vic & have the quins roll out

 

[molman]

Fair enough, but my point is more that not much can probably be inferred from Herbert’s use of ‘alignment’, as it’s been used from the get go

Fair. Maybe not. It will be interesting to see the language used going forward.

In all honesty, the word centralisation was starting to sound a little inappropriate for the scope of what seems to be proposed. High Performance alignment (which beggars the question of why this wasn't already aligned if that's the extent of what they're proposing). There was a push for more cooperation and coordination between the Super franchises back in the Cheika era, so I'm not sure what the reset aspect of all this is.

 

[oztimmay]

It couldn't be unicorns because of their ground, you would think it would either would be quins or EH because of the facility.

But my money would be that it would be the rising playing a mixture of clubs grounds & the training field at gosch's. Would be cool though to showcase club rugby in vic & have the quins roll out

I agree and prefer this approach. They could use the axeman name and stick with the blue & white hoops. The challenge is you don't build cohesion in a rep side as you do in a club side. It takes time to do that, so more games together is ideal. ACT, QLD, and NSW teams will have this advantage.

No perfect solution...

 

[LeCheese]

High Performance alignment (which beggars the question of why this wasn't already aligned if that's the extent of what they're proposing). There was a push for more cooperation and coordination between the Super franchises back in the Cheika era, so I'm not sure what the reset aspect of all this is.

My understanding is it was all gentleman's agreements and handshakes between RA and the Super teams to allow some direction on player positioning, management, etc. to flow from above - these weren't always honoured if the club felt it wasn't in their best interests.

One would assume that the proposed high-performance alignment would involve formal structures and processes which enable RA to provide oversight and direction. As you say, it beggars belief why it wasn't done some time ago, but that's RA and the Super franchises for you.

 

[KOB1987]

And we wonder why the ACT are so jumpy.

I could get behind it as long as there is a plan for after a year or two to bring in ACT and others. I understand they want something now but don't just do it because fuck it why not.

Or if it's precursor to a full domestic pro comp (i.e. no Super Rugby). That would make sense as NSW and Qld are really the only states that could have more than one side in a national club comp (assuming a focus on local talent). So if there are 4 sides each from NSW and Qld in the initial iteration, then when Super is wound up the players are dispersed accordingly between the 8 initial clubs, plus the highest ranked from NSW & Qld from the second division (=10), one each from ACT, WA and Vic (=13), and finally the next highest ranked from either NSW or Qld from the second division to round out the 14 teams. And expand the second division at the same time.

 

[KentwellCup>ShuteShield]

One way in order to capture the sense of sydney tribalism if the club centric way doesnt workout could be as follows:

South Harbour
North Harbour
Western Sydney
Southern Sydney???? not really that big of a rugby area.

 

[Slim 293]

It sounds like the Brumbies and the Force will keep doing tours of Japan and South Africa in order for our professional players to get some adequate match time...

 

[fatprop]

How can RA afford to run a 3rd tier national comp with just no money?

The logistical costs of flying around teams is just so tough

Even if you make each team FIFO the day of the game (so they aren't paying for accommodation), how does that function with WA?

 

[PhilClinton]

Even if you make each team FIFO the day of the game (so they aren't paying for accommodation), how does that function with WA?

Based on some of the alleged models being proposed, I don’t think it does include WA.

 

[Homer]

Based on some of the alleged models being proposed, I don’t think it does include WA.

They couldnt compete anyway. VIC and WA are not SS or Hospital Cup standard and while the ACT is improving there is a way to go yet. It serves no good to anyway to get done by 70 points each week.

 

[VassMan]

Model I’ve heard pushed; admittedly from someone with vested interest, is exclusively a QLD v NSW championship tournament with top teams from both playing each other in one division, and bottom teams from other playing in a seperate division.

No rep teams or JVs, purely club tournament with NSW & QLD.

How is that a third tier though. It's just the same level playing teams from across the border.

 

[wamberal99]

We keep going around in circles, of course. That is because, save for a big injection of capital, there is no ideal solution.

The NRL grew out of the Sydney competition, essentially. The AFL grew out of the VFL. I suppose a national competition could grow out of the Shute Shield. Pick the top 6 or 8 clubs and add 1 or 2 clubs each from BNE ACT and WA/VIC.

Base them all in Sydney.

 

[Alex Sharpe]

The ACT has done a pretty good job of spreading the talent load across the clubs, which has lead to a tight comp and multiple winners in the last few years. When they had a team in the SS though a lot of players saw the Vikings as their best chance to get noticed. Same will happen here when boys realise you need to play for regular finalist teams like SU and Eastwood or Easts. Anyway they do it the womens team and colts should be involved as it is about keeping people involved and providing pathways.

If we are relying on broadcast dollars to fund it then it will struggle as well, we need to create new revenue streams.

Very generous assessment of the Beasts there