Australian Rugby / RA

[Slim 293]

you need one less team and you need to beat the Kiwis more than they beat you.

it will be like magic

Did that work last time?

No… no, it did not.

 

[Slim 293]

Also have a large demographic that is poorer

That cry poorer?

 

[Wallaby Man]

Also have a large demographic that is poorer

The same working class people that watch rugby are the same ones that also religiously watch the NRL and have been attending games

 

[Rebel man]

The same working class people that watch rugby are the same ones that also religiously watch the NRL and have been attending games

Look in Melbourne the middle class watch footy, sure the working class do to. But a lot of rugby fans are here are either top end of town or working class. Rugby lacks traction in middle Melbourne

 

[Marce]

you need one less team and you need to beat the Kiwis more than they beat you.

it will be like magic

My proposal, mix Super Rugby and NPC and you get the new Super Rugby

10 Kiwis teams
5 Aussie teams
Drua and Moana

You get more games, you spread the quality Kiwi talent to more teams so even Force and Rebels will be competitive against them

The Aussie derbies have been quite entertaining in recent seasons, especially this year. The problem is that you are always smashed by the Kiwis

A larger and more entertaining competition is a win/win for NZ and OZ. With that format in 10/15 years you could match to the NRL

 

[qwerty51]

I really don’t know why you think NZ is 2x the amount of teams better than Aus.

 

[Marce]

I really don’t know why you think NZ is 2x the amount of teams better than Aus.

Maybe the last 20 years of Bledisloe, the last season an Aussie won the competition was almost 10 years ago and the recent seasons were all the Aussies were destroyed by the Kiwis

 

[Wallaby Man]

Look in Melbourne the middle class watch footy, sure the working class do to. But a lot of rugby fans are here are either top end of town or working class. Rugby lacks traction in middle Melbourne

If it was just Melbourne then there could be a suggestion that is true, but unfortunately the trend is across the country. Which would indicate it’s not a Socino-economic reason but an engagement one with the product at a national level.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Rugby in NZ seems to have a schizophrenic response to Super Rugby.

Fans do not want to water down any of their present teams and believe it is up to Australian rugby to raise its standards (which is reasonable). They think that any watering down will lead to a drop in the All Blacks standards. At the same time, they have largely lost interest in the cross-Tasman games and Aussie derbies because of the gap in playing standards.

The conundrum facing them is that they need close and reasonably high standard competition to maintain their position near or at the top of the tree internationally. They only get that from Australia.

Our issues are that we need more rugby at a professional or semi-professional level to provide opportunity to broaden and enlarge the pool of players available to be considered for higher honours. We will never get that while tied to Super Rugby Pacifica. We need to pull back from SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) as soon as is feasible and start our own expanded and geographically more diverse competition for the Aus Rugby crown on an annual basis. Our local derbies are the only games now holding much interest in Aussie fans, witness the crowd at the Reds/Brumbies final of SRAu a couple of years ago.

I know this is going over old ground, but the situation continues to deteriorate, and we seem to be unable to cut and run from the whims of NZR.

 

[Ignoto]

More games leading up to super? As in playing rugby in summer?

I'd rather we extend the season to mirror NRL and afl of starting in March and finishing in August. Break for three weeks in the middle for the autumn matches. Then September is quad nations before going to Europe for eoyt.

The fact that after May 19 there isn't another professional rugby game in Brisbane until the end of Feb next year is dumb.

 

[Derpus]

Rugby in NZ seems to have a schizophrenic response to Super Rugby.

Fans do not want to water down any of their present teams and believe it is up to Australian rugby to raise its standards (which is reasonable). They think that any watering down will lead to a drop in the All Blacks standards. At the same time, they have largely lost interest in the cross-Tasman games and Aussie derbies because of the gap in playing standards.

The conundrum facing them is that they need close and reasonably high standard competition to maintain their position near or at the top of the tree internationally. They only get that from Australia.

Our issues are that we need more rugby at a professional or semi-professional level to provide opportunity to broaden and enlarge the pool of players available to be considered for higher honours. We will never get that while tied to Super Rugby Pacifica. We need to pull back from SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) as soon as is feasible and start our own expanded and geographically more diverse competition for the Aus Rugby crown on an annual basis. Our local derbies are the only games now holding much interest in Aussie fans, witness the crowd at the Reds/Brumbies final of SRAu a couple of years ago.

I know this is going over old ground, but the situation continues to deteriorate, and we seem to be unable to cut and run from the whims of NZR.

Correct on every point BR.

 

[qwerty51]

NZRU have zero interest in the commercialisation of Super Rugby because they get significantly more from the All Blacks than we get from the Wallabies

 

[RebelYell]

I think the addition of two existing Kiwi teams would be enough. Perhaps Tasman Mako and Hawkes Bay. Would jsut dilute the Kiwi talent slightly and we could get up to 16 games per season

 

[RebelYell]

Alternatively, the obvious point is to sell the Super Rugby competition to a private investor, who would sign participant agreements with both Rugby AU & NZ Rugby. Somebody with a singular goal of maximising revenue from Super Rugby, as opposed to dedicating 5-10% of their resource to it whilst focusing primarily on Test footy and Elite Pathways, could actually do something great with it. And would be able to open Trans-Tasman borders.

 

[Marce]

Rugby in NZ seems to have a schizophrenic response to Super Rugby.

Fans do not want to water down any of their present teams and believe it is up to Australian rugby to raise its standards (which is reasonable). They think that any watering down will lead to a drop in the All Blacks standards. At the same time, they have largely lost interest in the cross-Tasman games and Aussie derbies because of the gap in playing standards.

The conundrum facing them is that they need close and reasonably high standard competition to maintain their position near or at the top of the tree internationally. They only get that from Australia.

Our issues are that we need more rugby at a professional or semi-professional level to provide opportunity to broaden and enlarge the pool of players available to be considered for higher honours. We will never get that while tied to Super Rugby Pacifica. We need to pull back from SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) as soon as is feasible and start our own expanded and geographically more diverse competition for the Aus Rugby crown on an annual basis. Our local derbies are the only games now holding much interest in Aussie fans, witness the crowd at the Reds/Brumbies final of SRAu a couple of years ago.

I know this is going over old ground, but the situation continues to deteriorate, and we seem to be unable to cut and run from the whims of NZR.

Quite accurate, they don't need Australia Rugby in the short term. But if they watch the full film, not just the photo, Australia is potencially he's best partner. The largest econony in Oceania with rugby tradition

If they want to match French, Japanese, Irish and English markets, they need a strong Australia. Their economy is small and their already reached their ceiling. That's all what they can get, if they want more incomes in a long term, they need a strategic alliance with Rugby Australia.

A competitive Bledisloe Cup like it was in 90s /2000s well marketed could reach the SOO audience. A large Super Rugby with more teams and more Aussie victories could generate more incomes

 

[Marce]

I think the addition of two existing Kiwi teams would be enough. Perhaps Tasman Mako and Hawkes Bay. Would jsut dilute the Kiwi talent slightly and we could get up to 16 games per season

The correlation is not 5 vs 5. Maybe 8/5

 

[Dan54]

Rugby in NZ seems to have a schizophrenic response to Super Rugby.

Fans do not want to water down any of their present teams and believe it is up to Australian rugby to raise its standards (which is reasonable). They think that any watering down will lead to a drop in the All Blacks standards. At the same time, they have largely lost interest in the cross-Tasman games and Aussie derbies because of the gap in playing standards.

The conundrum facing them is that they need close and reasonably high standard competition to maintain their position near or at the top of the tree internationally. They only get that from Australia.

Our issues are that we need more rugby at a professional or semi-professional level to provide opportunity to broaden and enlarge the pool of players available to be considered for higher honours. We will never get that while tied to Super Rugby Pacifica. We need to pull back from SRP (Super Rugby Pacific) (Super Rugby Pacific) as soon as is feasible and start our own expanded and geographically more diverse competition for the Aus Rugby crown on an annual basis. Our local derbies are the only games now holding much interest in Aussie fans, witness the crowd at the Reds/Brumbies final of SRAu a couple of years ago.

I know this is going over old ground, but the situation continues to deteriorate, and we seem to be unable to cut and run from the whims of NZR.

As a NZ fan, of course I don't want to water down present teams, do you as a Brumbies man want Brumbies to distribute their players around to strengthen the other Aussie teams, because they are a class above? I a Canes man and have watched young players come through their system, and I want to see Cane's get payout for developing them, not send them tp Highlanders or Aussie teams who are struggling. And honestly do you think the way to go is to weaken teams and that rugby will then get more appealing with a lesser standard? Chiefs in NZ a couple of years ago lost 11 games in a row, and how did they get out of the hole, bought through and worked hard with young players to develop enough quality that they sent a 10 to Japan for a season to learn his trade .

And to say witness the crowd at Reds/Brumbies final is not really proving how it will be, I can't quite understand why 1 game where a good very good crowd makes a great comp. Then if what happens and Wallabies struggle becuase the players are getting no international play during super and the crowds drop off there, will you then suggest that there be no tests? Whether we like it or not RA needs/wants there players getting international exposure too. The other alternative of course is if the Aus teams are struggling with depth, buy some in from around world, haven't Force etc started doing this as well as Brumbies (haven't you got some kiwi midfielders?) I know many fans in NZ would also be more than happy to see Aus teams go to, but none of us are the ones who try and run these comps. Still think one of the answers is for NZR abd RA (who rumour has it are the block) release the comp to an independant board.

 

[Dan54]

The correlation is not 5 vs 5. Maybe 8/5

Well it's already 6-5 really because MP (Moana Pasifika) are almost all kiwi NPC players anyway.

Alternatively, the obvious point is to sell the Super Rugby competition to a private investor, who would sign participant agreements with both Rugby AU & NZ Rugby. Somebody with a singular goal of maximising revenue from Super Rugby, as opposed to dedicating 5-10% of their resource to it whilst focusing primarily on Test footy and Elite Pathways, could actually do something great with it. And would be able to open Trans-Tasman borders.

I not sure how palatable this idea will actually be. If there was a private investor and he looked at comp and said well I think it should be a comp where teams have to be of a standard to compete, with financials etc to back it up, how many of us would be happy if teams were then dropped from comp?

I do like that people are looking at ideas , and admit I playing devil's advocate, but there so many ideas that we all can't see the problems with.
I think whether we like it or not we are tied to each other for the forseeable future, and we all know if it made sense and RA could make more of going alone they would ditto for NZR. We all see in one years where the comps were split where RA had one huge crowd, NZ actuall had bloody good crowds too (and all season), but think most realised a lot of that was on back of getting sport back after covid.
In NZ we also had an incredible North/South game that year, that had whole country absolutely wrapt , and seemed the answer, habve a NZ comp, followed by North/South game, but I think most wise heads realise that probably not substainable in long run.

 

[Rebel man]

Code sports pushing the cut a team barrow again.

While senior numbers have dropped in Vic post covid. Junior numbers are rebounding strongly, there are now 5 public school academies, the private school comp and a strong junior club comp.

We are seeing more and more locals make it through to the super side and have success.

This is where a good portion of the money we get needs to go into the grass roots. Not just in Vic but Australia wide I just have little knowledge of the other states.

But you strength and grow the grassroots you engage more people in the sport and in the pathways and you increase the depth of talent at super level. Cutting the Force or Rebels or the push for the Rebels and Brumbies to merge were all horrible ideas.

 

[Dctarget]

Code sports pushing the cut a team barrow again.

Code is owned by Newscorp, might explain some of their angles