Australian Rugby / RA

[The Honey Badger]

JOC (James O'Connor) ?

 

[cyclopath]

Kerevi, AAA and Sio are all world class and would find a spot in any other test team IMO

Not sure all tier 1 nations would agree. Might be a tad parochial there. They're all great players though, no doubt.

 

[Lorenzo]

Shoulda just sacked Cheika after the England tour.

Fucking lol, given you very carefully explained throughout 2018 that a) we couldn't afford it, and b) it wouldn't make any difference anyway since everything else was completely fucked

 

[KOB1987]

But if the players' hearts aren't in it, KOB, there might have been a 'who cares?' attitude with the coach right at the centre of the malcontent.

I’m sure there was a bit of that. I wasn’t defending Cheika and I wasn’t directly criticising the players, my point was that the underlying reason for the poor skills of the players was probably/likely more related to their poor development when they were coming the ‘pathway’, and that no matter who coached we would not have won the RWC. We probably would have beaten Wales though, but you could argue all that was required for that was a different ref.

 

[KOB1987]

Kuridrani is nearly there too.

He didn’t even make Australia?

 

[KOB1987]

Kerevi, AAA and Sio are all world class and would find a spot in any other test team IMO

There are players you could make a case for, but none are of the caliber of our former world class players. As Cyclo said they’re all great players but world class is a different argument. After I wrote the comment last night I realised that the other player of ours who may have made a World XV after the RWC was Koroibete. But we certainly didn’t have the requisite 5 genuine world class players.

 

[KOB1987]

Cheika returns serve:

 

[Quick Hands]

I’m sure there was a bit of that. I wasn’t defending Cheika and I wasn’t directly criticising the players, my point was that the underlying reason for the poor skills of the players was probably/likely more related to their poor development when they were coming the ‘pathway’, and that no matter who coached we would not have won the RWC. We probably would have beaten Wales though, but you could argue all that was required for that was a different ref.

Poor development pathways are a major issue and it's not only players, it's the coaches who aren't being developed.

Of the 5 professional coaches in the Australian system we currently have 4 who learnt their trade overseas; Penney (NZ), Rennie (NZ), Thorn (NZ) and Dave Wessels (SA). That's 80% to 20%.

If we add the Force's Tim Sampson it's 2 out of 6 who've come through Australia or 33% to 66%.

We're simply not producing either players or coaches of sufficient quality in sufficient quantity to be at the very top of international rugby.

Even when we look at some of our better players in recent times we have players who can't pass both ways, can't defend in the line in their playing position and can't kick when they are playing in positions where this has always been considered a core skill. All of these guys have been in the Aust pro development system since their teens.

 

[RugbyReg]

I think the old rule of thumb is that to win a World Cup you have to have 5 world class players in the team. The only truly world class player we had got sacked prior to the event, Hooper arguably could have made a World XV. That’s it. Beale and Pocock could have at other times in their career but certainly not in 2019.

Point being that our best players were sub par, and the depth below our best players was non existent as well. Speak to any test player and they will all tell you it’s not the physicality, but the speed of the game that finds most people out. Notwithstanding that I agree with ILTW above that the game plan should be able to be executed, it also needs to be one that is capable of catching out international sides. I don’t disagree that Cheika overcomplicated the game plan, but the players need to shoulder some of the responsibility as well.

Dwyer came up with that one. I think it's a bit of a furphy. I think its more, if you win the World Cup then you'll generally have 5 players considered World Class.

 

[Derpus]

Cheika returns serve:

View attachment 11537

I wish they would all fuck off. Jesus. You failed miserably. Get the fuck over it and leave us alone.

 

[Derpus]

Fucking lol, given you very carefully explained throughout 2018 that a) we couldn't afford it, and b) it wouldn't make any difference anyway since everything else was completely fucked

It was tongue in cheek

 

[KOB1987]

Dwyer came up with that one. I think it's a bit of a furphy. I think its more, if you win the World Cup then you'll generally have 5 players considered World Class.

That's probably it, although it's the same thing, just with the benefit of hindsight.

 

[Slim 293]

Nawwwwwwww, sorry Wayne..........

Australian rugby officials have moved to calm fears of another Super Rugby cull, saying a speculated merger of the Brumbies and Rebels "is not being discussed".

The future shape and size of Australia's professional footprint has again come up for debate as Rugby Australia turns its attention to next season and the potential for a trans-Tasman Super Rugby competition.

Speculation has emerged that New Zealand Rugby is trying to dictate terms on Australia's involvement, leading to rumours RA will be asked to cut a team or merge the Brumbies and Rebels to accommodate the self-funded Western Force.

A Rugby Australia official issued the following statement on Wednesday night: "The prospect of a merger or cutting a Super Rugby team is not being discussed by Rugby Australia".

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...not-on-the-cards-says-ra-20200618-p553qv.html

 

[barbarian]

Hasn't the news taken a far more positive tone in the last month or so?!?

We're discussing future comps, World Cups, actual rugby, and other general positive plans for the future.

No longer do we have journos digging through the books from years past, airing the views of disgruntled stakeholders, and making scary prognostications about the future of the game.

The Newscorp/RUPA/old guard campaign to get Raelene is an easy explanation for why this has occurred, but surely it's not that simple.

 

[Slim 293]

Jessica Halloran hasn't published an article for almost three weeks..........

 

[John S]

Interesting interview by Nick McArdle on Rob Clarke. Definitely worth the listen.

https://play.acast.com/s/the-playmakers-playbook/robclarke

 

[dru]

Hasn't the news taken a far more positive tone in the last month or so?!?

We're discussing future comps, World Cups, actual rugby, and other general positive plans for the future.

No longer do we have journos digging through the books from years past, airing the views of disgruntled stakeholders, and making scary prognostications about the future of the game.

The Newscorp/RUPA/old guard campaign to get Raelene is an easy explanation for why this has occurred, but surely it's not that simple.

I’m turning Baba. My negativity was on a steep down trend, but it is starting to turn to less steep. ;-)

On a positive note, the Kiwis inviting Aus franchises, possibly including WA, to discussions is interesting. Perhaps they are starting to recognise that Australia has requirements - and that they might consider those requirements with open mind. Big step to get there. And more big steps required. But definitely positive.

 

[drewprint]

Jessica Halloran hasn't published an article for almost three weeks....

Jumped in to write the exact same thing. Certain people on here were claiming she’s impartial and even handed. Interesting isn’t it that the incessant hit pieces have absolutely dried up for weeks now. In fact, zero rugby content whatsoever. Not even any of the positive stuff of late, ie it’s return, shape of the revised comp etc. Not very even handed at all if you ask me.

 

[RedsHappy]

Nawwwwwwww, sorry Wayne....

https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...not-on-the-cards-says-ra-20200618-p553qv.html

In quoting GeoRob, you perhaps omitted one rather important qualifying paragraph:

But the fact remains the shape of Australia's professional game next year will be decided by what monetary value a broadcaster sees in the 2021 competition, given broadcast revenue is traditionally RA's single biggest revenue source.

And knowing of your vehement distaste for all things Murdochian, I look forward to you posting your typically blunt and no doubt principled communication with the CEO of the Brumbies advising him in the strongest possible terms to refuse any and all funds that might indirectly or otherwise arise from sources such as (dare I mention it) Foxtel. Please keep us closely posted on this moving chain of events.

 

[RedsHappy]

I’m turning Baba. My negativity was on a steep down trend, but it is starting to turn to less steep. ;-)

On a positive note, the Kiwis inviting Aus franchises, possibly including WA, to discussions is interesting. Perhaps they are starting to recognise that Australia has requirements - and that they might consider those requirements with open mind. Big step to get there. And more big steps required. But definitely positive.

dru, they have always known Australia 'has requirements'. NZRU knows that it and RA are strategically and commercially co-dependent and that is the key driver here. A new TT pro rugby comp with Aust intimately involved is massively in NZRU's interests.

I know and respect the many adherents here to a pure 2021+ all-Aust pro rugby comp, but it is, and always has been, highly unlikely to happen as there are zero realistic viability models for the number of teams so required (and, too, the average playing calibre required for each team to ensure a reasonably balanced comp structure).