Australian Rugby / RA

[Quick Hands]

I'd like to see the clubbies even trying to run anything at a prof level. Would be a disaster. Not to say the people running state do much different except with leather backed chairs.

The professional level already is a disaster.

 

[Adam84]

The professional level already is a disaster.

I think that comment is an overstatement, yes the competition and structure in which which the teams participate in is a disaster, however the teams themselves; the staff and the employees which work for those teams and provide the administration aren't a disaster. Yes there is area for improvement within all Oz teams, that doesn't mean they are the equivalent of a club rugby team with no professional experience though.

 

[wamberal]

I'd like to see the clubbies even trying to run anything at a prof level. Would be a disaster. Not to say the people running state do much different except with leather backed chairs.

There are some pretty competent people involved in club rugby. How much first-hand knowledge do you have, and of which clubs?

 

[hoggy]

I think that comment is an overstatement, yes the competition and structure in which which the teams participate in is a disaster, however the teams themselves; the staff and the employees which work for those teams and provide the administration aren't a disaster. Yes there is area for improvement within all Oz teams, that doesn't mean they are the equivalent of a club rugby team with no professional experience though.

It is the structure that does not work, its like driving a rally car in a road race. The quality of staff are there no doubt, but they can't achieve something the structure will never accommodate and this is what leads to self interest.

But its the definition of a club, whenever we talk of a domestic structure then immediately people think of some amateur suburban rugby club.

We essentially have 5 domestic clubs already, if we move to say 8 then you try to accommodate 3 other clubs joining that group.

Say Randwick (just as an example) decide they want to join, they have the financial backers and support growth projections making it viable, then they can be added.

The biggest hurdle is putting in place the competition structures and governance that allow for the competition to hopefully survive and grow (and there are good governance examples all over the world to look at).

 

[Quick Hands]

I think that comment is an overstatement, yes the competition and structure in which which the teams participate in is a disaster, however the teams themselves; the staff and the employees which work for those teams and provide the administration aren't a disaster.

How have these professional teams, staff and employees performed over the past 5 years? How many games for example have they won against NZ opponents during that time?

 

[Adam84]

How have these professional teams, staff and employees performed over the past 5 years? How many games for example have they won against NZ opponents during that time?

Whilst thats a measure of sporting success, I don't believe beating New Zealand teams should be the measure of whether a organisation or staff are doing the best job they can, with the resources they have available.

 

[Quick Hands]

Whilst thats a measure of sporting success, I don't believe beating New Zealand teams should be the measure of whether a organisation or staff are doing the best job they can, with the resources they have available.

What criteria are you using?

 

[wamberal]

What criteria are you using?

If one criterion is a winning record against New Zealand (or New Zealand teams, in general) no country or team on earth is successful.

 

[eastman]

Whilst thats a measure of sporting success, I don't believe beating New Zealand teams should be the measure of whether a organisation or staff are doing the best job they can, with the resources they have available.

There are at least 7 NFL teams would be described as perennial underachievers (recently have not come close to playoffs) who still turn a profit - are they failures?

 

[Quick Hands]

If one criterion is a winning record against New Zealand (or New Zealand teams, in general) no country or team on earth is successful.

The question remains, what criteria is he using to measure success?

Let's put NZ aside for the purpose of the discussion.

Producing quality players for the Wallabies at a level to compete on the world stage?

 

[Slim 293]

Producing quality players for the Wallabies at a level to compete on the world stage?

Short answer......... yes, although some organisations have performed better than others.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Reaching the QF at last year's RWC after the previous 4 years of very poor coaching (assistants as well as the head coach) and skills development across the players wasn't such a bad result. The Wallabies of today look to be a whole lot more skilful and promising than those of last year taken as a team.

Taken as a whole with the form and results at U20s and Schoolboys last year and the form of the Brumbies and potential of the Reds this year, we are quite evidently producing world class players despite the absolute shambles at the top of RA.

 

[KOB1987]

Reaching the QF at last year's RWC after the previous 4 years of very poor coaching (assistants as well as the head coach) and skills development across the players wasn't such a bad result. The Wallabies of today look to be a whole lot more skilful and promising than those of last year taken as a team.

Taken as a whole with the form and results at U20s and Schoolboys last year and the form of the Brumbies and potential of the Reds this year, we are quite evidently producing world class players despite the absolute shambles at the top of RA.

Who are the Wallabies of today?

 

[Adam84]

The question remains, what criteria is he using to measure success?

Let's put NZ aside for the purpose of the discussion.

Producing quality players for the Wallabies at a level to compete on the world stage?

Measure of success will surely vary department to department, my point is to that claim the clubs are a disaster is an overstatement when you have some clubs like the reds signing record sponsorship deals for this year, and the Brumbies constantly churning out talent of international standard.

 

[wamberal]

Who are the Wallabies of today?

None, except in the historical sense. We will know if and when Rennie picks his first 23.

 

[dru]

^ then on the other hand you've got NZR Chairman Brent Impey talking up the Trans Tasman relationship at every opportunity (tbf he also talks up the NZ-SA relationship just as much) so maybe RA isn't seen as a basket case by those actually running the joint. Hard to say but I guess we'll find out in the fullness of time. FWIW if Super Rugby can't be salvaged my next option would be Trans Tasman & bringing at least Fiji & in due course a Polynesian entity, perhaps a Samoa/ Tonga JV based in Auckland or Western Sydney.

You dont need RA for a TT, just the Franchises.

Of course it would completely kill pro rugby as an Australian product, but what the hell. Kick the can down the road.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Who are the Wallabies of today?

Well, not Beale, Simmons, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), TPN, Hanigan, Pooper, Phipps, Foley or Folau. Probably a few more.

 

[KOB1987]

Well, not Beale, Simmons, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), TPN, Hanigan, Pooper, Phipps, Foley or Folau. Probably a few more.

It’s good that you put the P in the front of Pooper otherwise people might think you had a thing against Waratahs players.

 

[Brumby Runner]

KOB, it is definitely a changing of the guard.

 

[sunnyboys]

Journo in the Oz has managed to wring out two articles in the same day addressing the financial doom of RA. Can’t get past the paywall to read them