Australian Rugby / RA

[KOB1987]

Also Michael , just to keep you in the loop, years ago the Brumbies stole the southern zones (Riverina, South Coast, etc) from NSW Country, so their players don’t participate in Country week and aren’t eligible for selection in the NSW Country rep team. It leaves their players in no mans land as effectively they don’t get to play rep footy, although the occasional one gets picked in the Emerging Brumbies or whatever they are called. In no world will NSWRU or NSWCRU allow the other zones to be affiliated with the Brumbies.

 

[Joe King]

Where is he money coming from?

This is the crux of the problem. If we expanded to more domestic teams we dilute the talent pool further. We already don't get nearly enough viewers for what would be the blockbuster games in a new comp.

We're going to need plenty of outside money (private owners willing to lose money) to have any sort of salary cap that will allow sufficient quality.

I also don't really see how we can field more than 5 Australian teams. I just don't think there is nearly enough quality players to go beyond that.

I think it is clear now that Super Rugby is never coming back. In terms of what comes next, I think we'll be largely dependent on NZ coming to the conclusion that they don't have enough teams or money to go it alone either.

BH, do you see it as a problem if we have 5 teams playing regularly against NZ's five? I'm just wondering if one of the drawbacks of a TT comp is that it might restrict us to 3-4 teams max to be sufficiently competitive because of our lack of depth.

The real solution to this would be for NZR to pick test players from non-NZ teams, but it's always been in their best interests not to. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[Kenny Powers]

It is pretty clear that no domestic professional competition will work unless certain clubs are allowed to appear as themselves.

So, let them.

Once they pay the franchise fee to participate, we'll see whether they've got the business acumen to sustain a club as a commercial operation.

Because fuck knows they don't seem to have it right now.

Agree with this history tells us mergers don't succeed you buy the franchise if you prosper all good, you fail the franchise goes back to the ARU for resale (or more likely someone who puts a proposal to fund a team) and teams will change their geographical location. A Darwinian survival of the fittest for the professional game.

It will bring private investors into the game just have to manage and massage their egos.

As owning a sporting team / franchise is God's way of telling you that you have too much money.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

RA? They did. But anyone who believes a non-bid or bid by Optus or TEN is contingent on Raelene Castle being around, is deluded.

Events overtook everyone months ago.

More the upheaval doesn't exactly promote stability and continuity.

 

[RugbyFuture]

just reading on the last few pages on domestic comps etc, as much as I'd love one, and having been around the stars, rays and rams peeps when that was going on, there is no way with the mentality of the people in rugby in Australia that we can create something with unity, cohesion or for the good of the game. People are in it for themselves from an admin level through and won't allow outsiders in. They're old school, that's good sometimes, not in this regard, and whenever you hear one group saying they're doing something to try and overcome, its really that it's the clubbies v the RA guys, or usyd v randwick guys, and none of them are any different to each other.

 

[Joe King]

just reading on the last few pages on domestic comps etc, as much as I'd love one, and having been around the stars, rays and rams peeps when that was going on, there is no way with the mentality of the people in rugby in Australia that we can create something with unity, cohesion or for the good of the game. People are in it for themselves from an admin level through and won't allow outsiders in. They're old school, that's good sometimes, not in this regard, and whenever you hear one group saying they're doing something to try and overcome, its really that it's the clubbies v the RA guys, or usyd v randwick guys, and none of them are any different to each other.

Good to see you post again. What do you think is the best way forward?

 

[Forcefield]

I know there are some holes in this kind of plan but I see room for two separate competitions. Competition 1: Domestic 6-8 teams (WA, ACT, VIC, x QLD, y NSW). Played from June through October. Competition 2: Asia-Pacific competition that mirrors Europe. Those same 6-8 Aussie teams divided into two groups. x number of Mitre 10 Cup teams divided likewise. Other teams from whoever else is interested- Japan, Tonga, Samoa, Fiji, Singapore, Hong Kong, Malaysia, China, maybe Hawaii- divided (not sure how yet). You end up with two divisions of 12 teams (or less- it doesn't really matter just change the pool sizes or numbers). Those teams play out home and away in three pools of 4 with the top 4 (one from each pool plus the next best) going through to semi-finals. Played from Feb/March through to May.

What does this have:
A) Time zone friendly.
B) Domestic competition for Aus and potentially puts more riding on the Mitre 10 Cup. Maybe you even look at partnering up ITM Cup Championship Division teams with emerging teams (e.g. Bay of Plenty with China Lions in the GRR).
C) Includes the "minnows".
D) Keeps things fresh as each year could mean different divisions and different pools.

I feel like the style of rugby played in a tournament like this would gather a fair bit of interest in Europe and as with Super Rugby the TV rights could be sold over there.

Thoughts?

 

[The Honey Badger]

Tim was a bouncer at the Newport Arms. His speciality was getting himself into a fight with anybody who was brave enough, stupid enough, or drunk enough (preferably all three). Tim was not a boxer, but he did not need to be, he was big and tough and strong. He took a few, but when he landed one it was goodnight Irene. I saw him one night fighting a young chap who obviously fancied himself as a boxer. The young fella danced around, landing good little punches, Tim just sort of stood there, swayed a bit, finally saw his chance. He only needed to land one punch.


Another thing about Tim, he played second row (lock) but was also a really good goal-kicker. His pre-match warm-up routine consisted of half a dozen schooners, apparently.


BTW, Tim's brother Max also played for Gordon, he was a front-rower, and seemed like a fairly normal sort of person.


And as a final flourish to this tale of thuggery, Tim was a Shore Old Boy!!!!!

Any relation to Jacob Bristow? Was playing for Parramatta and made NSW U20 squad 2 years ago. Hooker ,??

Not sure if he is still playing or where he is now

 

[The Honey Badger]

Obviously I was referring to the issues of the laws as per my post, not all of rugby's issues in Australia to do with market share etc..
I find the proposition we need to change the laws of our game here to accomodate people who follow other sports anyway and like different laws / games somewhat obtuse.
If you think you're going to convert AFL fans to Rugby, think again. You'll have, at best, small numbers crossing over at the best of times. In my time living in Melbourne, they basically could not have given a rat's arse about rugby by and large. Changing the laws won't change that.

But perhaps some rule changes may sway some League people.

Lets say RA said all U18 rugby is to be played under the rules played at the the recent U20 world cup.

Principally no contact above the nipple line. And the tackler must bend at the waste.

These rules are aimed to make the sport safer and reduce injuries.

We are beginning to differentiate our game (vs League) and make it more appealing to mothers and parents and schools who are concerned about player welfare. We get more people playing the game, and growth leads to stronger grass roots clubs, more interest in the game etc

 

[cyclopath]

But perhaps some rule changes may sway some League people.

Lets say RA said all U18 rugby is to be played under the rules played at the the recent U20 world cup.

Principally no contact above the nipple line. And the tackler must bend at the waste.

These rules are aimed to make the sport safer and reduce injuries.

We are beginning to differentiate our game (vs League) and make it more appealing to mothers and parents and schools who are concerned about player welfare. We get more people playing the game, and growth leads to stronger grass roots clubs, more interest in the game etc

Laws, not rules.
We're not talking about U-18s, and U-20s but changes at senior level. And, once again, my point was about our position, at that level, in a global game. Please go back and read the other posts I wrote before commenting as you are missing most of the point I was making.
And yeah, League fans will flock to Rugby if we make it "softer". They're still pissed off they can't take peoples' heads off with shoulders and swinging arms. Which is how they, and may existing rugby fans describe the law changes at junior levels (and vaguely proposed at senior).

 

[half]

If I had a hammer
I would hammer in the morning
Hammer in the evening
Hammer all over this land.

I have been hammering for as long as my protest on Super Rugby about two glaring aspects of rugby control and these are

1] No separation of powers
2] Be far more inclusive take your time and include as many people as you can in the conversation.

Recently some of you may have noticed a letter written by a majority but nowhere all former Wallaby captains. This letter resulted in some debate.

I have been hammering the inclusive aspect of rugby stakeholders and have posted twice recently on how I would elect board members.

Hammering away I came across a number of articles today were FFA have made a ""first 11"" of former Socceroos & Matilda's & Coaches to advise FFA on technical coaching and player development issues.

Some key points from the articles. Would it hurt for the RA board to do something similar. Sorta engage not fight.

https://www.ffa.com.au/news/experienced-starting-xi-help-drive-australian-football-forward

Eleven of the most experienced and learned minds in Australian football will come together, under the auspices of FFA’s Football Development Committee (FDC), to create a new Panel to discuss and debate the growth and development of Australian football.

I have made it clear that we will be a football-first organisation that seeks to harness the collective knowledge and experience that our most successful contributors

We have had to act quickly to stabilise the organisation during this difficult period

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Paul McLean has met with Channel 10's Paul Anderson, and Wiggs has met with NFJ, Kearns & Harrison.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-quickly-to-smooth-relationship-with-ten-boss

 

[Rugbynutter39]

It is pretty clear that no domestic professional competition will work unless certain clubs are allowed to appear as themselves.

So, let them.

Once they pay the franchise fee to participate, we'll see whether they've got the business acumen to sustain a club as a commercial operation.

Because fuck knows they don't seem to have it right now.

Despite being nrc fan I have accepted to get better support this may be the option we are forced to go down

 

[Rugbynutter39]

BH, do you see it as a problem if we have 5 teams playing regularly against NZ's five? I'm just wondering if one of the drawbacks of a TT comp is that it might restrict us to 3-4 teams max to be sufficiently competitive because of our lack of depth.

The real solution to this would be for NZR to pick test players from non-NZ teams, but it's always been in their best interests not to. What are your thoughts on this?

You effectively nail it - only way trans Tasman competition could really work is nz selecting test player from nz players playing for oz super rugby sides. If nz did not agree to this I feel better to go it alone and align with twiggy and his Asia pacific plans

 

[KOB1987]

Paul McLean has met with Channel 10's Paul Anderson, and Wiggs has met with NFJ, Kearns & Harrison.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby...-quickly-to-smooth-relationship-with-ten-boss

That article has Wiggs as the leading candidate for the CEO gig, whereas the article in the Aus this morning has him as the front runner for chairman to oversee the appointment of the CEO. If true it no doubt enhances the case for McLean to depart early, at least prior to the search commencing.

 

[fatprop]

You effectively nail it - only way trans Tasman competition could really work is nz selecting test player from nz players playing for oz super rugby sides. If nz did not agree to this I feel better to go it alone and align with twiggy and his Asia pacific plans

I still think the Aus teams join the ITM cup (rename it to whatever some clowns will pay for), let there be promotion and relegation (the Force start in Div 2) home and away, over a full season ie starts in March and finishes in September.

Let Aus & Kiwis play for whoever they want

I would ignore all expansion for a while and have every Friday and Saturday night at least the 5.30 (from NZ) & 7.30 (from Aus when ever possible) games

Lets have a comp with consistent, reliable, sell-able content

 

[wamberal]

Any relation to Jacob Bristow? Was playing for Parramatta and made NSW U20 squad 2 years ago. Hooker ,??

Not sure if he is still playing or where he is now

No idea. It is an unusual name, though. Tim ended up in a pretty bad way, had a stroke. He was a well-known stand-over thug. His brother Max was pretty straight, though.



Sorry, just cannot help.

 

[Froggy]

I met Tim a few times, he used to drink at the Royal Oak in Double Bay (front bar) and regale us school kids in tales about Vietnam.
He also used to push BLF agitators off tall buildings for a fee!
Very dangerous man.

 

[wamberal]

I met Tim a few times, he used to drink at the Royal Oak in Double Bay (front bar) and regale us school kids in tales about Vietnam.
He also used to push BLF agitators off tall buildings for a fee!
Very dangerous man.

Tim was born in 1930. I tried to find some evidence that he served in Vietnam, but no luck (just a quick look of course). Our involvement started in 1962, just a few "advisers", large scale involvement started in 1965, at which time Tim was 35. So I would guess he was just regurgitating stories that he had from the boys on R & R in the Cross. He would have spent a lot of time around there.



Yes, he was very dangerous. He also worked to gather evidence for court cases back in the days when divorce needed some sort of proof of adultery or the like, Tim made a pretty good living breaking down bedroom doors, motel room doors, etc and taking "incriminating" photos. Up to 8 times a night (so he said - as with everything he said, to be taken with a large grain of salt).



The last time I saw him in the CBD he looked pretty terrible, his face was deformed badly by his stroke.

 

[Braveheart81]

BH, do you see it as a problem if we have 5 teams playing regularly against NZ's five? I'm just wondering if one of the drawbacks of a TT comp is that it might restrict us to 3-4 teams max to be sufficiently competitive because of our lack of depth.

The real solution to this would be for NZR to pick test players from non-NZ teams, but it's always been in their best interests not to. What are your thoughts on this?

It's hard to know but I do feel like we have a better chance at a financially successful and thus sustainable competition with NZ than without. I firmly believe the international drawcard is important. Rugby is a global game and having a competition of sufficient quality is important to driving international interest.

A competition that was Australian only with less of our top talent because the funds available are lower and the remaining talent spread more thinly would seem very likely to resemble the NRC in quality, maybe a little better. I don't think that some of the teams involved being the Reds/Waratahs/Brumbies/Rebels is going to increase the interest enough to really change the dynamic. We're already working from a base where there isn't enough interest in those teams.

We're competing with other rugby competitions for our domestic viewers as well as with other sports. I don't think being the best local rugby competition is enough to bring out the fans in enough numbers to make it sustainable. It has to be high enough quality, even if that means that we are generally amongst the weaker teams in the competition (because NZ is stronger).

It's going to be a massive challenge regardless.