Australian Rugby / RA

[Juan Cote]

Near as I can tell, one of the last administrative acts of NFJ in rugby.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-legend-loan-controversy-20161103-gsgz0w.html

Poido also locked in the back bedroom for the next 5 years. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-legend-loan-controversy-20161103-gsgz0w.html

Yep. They're cherry ripe to lead the charge.

There is no way in my mind anyone from within rugby can 'fix' rugby. It will take a concerted effort from business and communication specialists to come up with a model that is at best sustainable and none of the current protagonists seem to have these skills.

Harrison calling for a 'root and branch review'....fuck me

 

[Quick Hands]

The absence of Eales' signature is instructive, and is consistent with my preliminary assessment that the initiatives and action items will primarily serve to line the pockets of some of them and further inflate the egos of the remainder. For a group of people awarded numerous opportunities to speak publicly on matters rugby, I don't recall ever hearing any of them say anything particularly sensible and i don't just mean regarding the administration of the game.

This reeks of the kind of populist bullshit that appeals to causal fans that (reasonably, i guess) assume that former captains would likely have some clue about running the game at the national level. The truth is that many of these weren't especially good captains, never mind qualified to run the sport.

Personally if i was the freshly installed chairman id be more inclined to take private meetings than respond to public ambushes like this, but perhaps the games current position demands a conciliatory approach.

Eales was on the board for a while so he could hardly become involved. He didn't cover himself in glory while he was there, so I well understand his absence. A magnificent player, but a very poor administrator.

 

[Quick Hands]

There is no way in my mind anyone from within rugby can 'fix' rugby. It will take a concerted effort from business and communication specialists to come up with a model that is at best sustainable and none of the current protagonists seem to have these skills.

Harrison calling for a 'root and branch review'..fuck me

Bringing in business specialists etc, was supposed to save us and has been a spectacular failure. We were told ad nauseum by various posters how this independent board made up of bankers, directors of cruise ship companies was the answer to all the administration problems we had. Let's get rid of self-interest they all chanted.

Well, the result has been the game is now on the edge of going into administration.

 

[Quick Hands]

How much has the Board of Rugby Australia listened in the past?

At the most recent AGM they gave themselves a 72% performance rating!

https://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby...t/news-story/5080f6c6007c9dfc8d3ca62cb8e99582

How did they land on 72% and it also looks like it is a metric for handing out bonuses.

Plenty of grass roots rugby volunteers out there has anyone ever done or been asked to do a survey? I have never been contacted in the past when involved as a volunteer at club level?

I think Rugby Australia are being rightly criticised for ignoring the grass roots as there is no involvement in their magic 72% performance metric.

They haven't listened and nor have their cheer squad on here it seems. Now they won't be listening to 11 former captains.

As we have seen, the RA board effectively selects it's own replacements when someone stands down. So they really have no need to listen from a political point of view.

I logged on here this morning optimistically thinking that the letter from the former captains would finally have led to a road to Damascus like conversion, and even with my general cynicism I genuinely thought that's would I would be reading. Instead we read personal insults pertaining to their motives etc.

If this letter can't get something done at the top, then nothing will save the professional game in Australia. All a WR (World Rugby) bailout will do will kick the can down the road. The business model is unsustainable, but they seem to remain committed to SANZAAR and its pan-continental tournaments. The money from WR (World Rugby) is very similar to the subsidies that the government gave to car companies to keep manufacturing in Australia - if the business model doesn't change then the whole thing remains financially unsustainable.

 

[Quick Hands]

Kenny, I have been a volunteers at clubs for quite a few years (and sometimes a bit higher), and in many positions whether coaching, managing ,administration etc, both here and in NZ. I will say RA (or NZRU) never asked me my opinion, neither really did I expect them to, if I ever believed strongly enough about something I took it to club committee (or JAB,or provincial rugby union etc) and expressed my concerns and if the club or whatever agreed it would be taken up to next level. I truly think this is correct way for information/views to be forwarded to RA etc.

Indeed Dan, but even though your views weren't directly sought they were provided indirectly through the different levels of the administrative structure.

I don't think that anyone really expects that every registered participant would be asked by RA to provide an opinion on every decision. But, clubs need to be respected and listened to by RA - not dismissed as an annoyance because they won't go along with the latest brilliant scheme produced by RA. Remember for example that RA told us that Super 18 would be the saviour of the game in Australia. They also told us that the NRC (then known as the 3rd tier) was essential and it would lead to improvement in our super teams and our test team.

 

[dru]

Bringing in business specialists etc, was supposed to save us and has been a spectacular failure. We were told ad nauseum by various posters how this independent board made up of bankers, directors of cruise ship companies was the answer to all the administration problems we had. Let's get rid of self-interest they all chanted.

Well, the result has been the game is now on the edge of going into administration.

This.

I suspect the source of much of this was the Arbib Report. But that overlays the situation in NSW where there has been a growing schism between NSWRU and SRU. For the life of me, I don't understand how this has been an ARU issue but then I haven't followed the ins and outs of NSWRU.

Surely current circumstances mean that the govt would be understanding or at least tolerant of rugby ditching the Arbib governance model. I'd like to see people with "skin in the game" sitting in those leadership positions.

The reservation I have with the SRU cohort (Papworth and Dwyer being obvious) is that I don't think they have yet shown an ability or interest to look beyond their own backyard. Don't get me wrong, that backyard is important, it's just not the whole thing.

The slow down-trend of Australian professional rugby has gone splat. I have an image of a cartoon with a "dead cat bounce" and RA implementing CPR.

A return to Super just seems incredulous.

 

[Quick Hands]

But just tearing something down because we used to be captains and that was when rugby in Australia was great (notably the guy who captained Australia when we were top of the world wasn't among them) with nothing but anger at the current regime to hang your hat on is exactly the sort of mentality that creates coups in third world countries, with one brutal, corrupt, incompetent regime being replaced by another exactly the same.

There's a very good reason Eales wasn't on the list. He was a close ally of Pulver and Clyne when he was on the ARU board. He's part of the corporate world now and it hardly likely to go against people he may have to do business with one day.

"There's nothing we can do to stop that but I know that there is nothing the ARU or the ARU board has got to hide," Eales said. "People can go through that [document]. We've published everything. Go through that timeline and there's detail.
"I would seriously question whether there is a need for that [inquiry]. It's not me making that decision [whether it should happen].

"That timeline that the ARU have got on their website … paints it really clearly what actually happened through that process and articulates that very well."
Pulver, Clyne and Eales will attend the Wallabies match at nib Stadium against the Springboks and already fans are doing their best investigative work to find out where the ARU's head honchos will be sitting.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-ahead-of-forgotten-test-20170908-gydnka.html

 

[Quick Hands]

This.

I suspect the source of much of this was the Arbib Report. But that overlays the situation in NSW where there has been a growing schism between NSWRU and SRU. For the life of me, I don't understand how this has been an ARU issue but then I haven't followed the ins and outs of NSWRU.

Surely current circumstances mean that the govt would be understanding or at least tolerant of rugby ditching the Arbib governance model. I'd like to see people with "skin in the game" sitting in those leadership positions.

The reservation I have with the SRU cohort (Papworth and Dwyer being obvious) is that I don't think they have yet shown an ability or interest to look beyond their own backyard. Don't get me wrong, that backyard is important, it's just not the whole thing.

The slow down-trend of Australian professional rugby has gone splat. I have an image of a cartoon withg a "dead cat bounce" and RA implementing CPR.

A return to Super just seems incredulous.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

Near as I can tell, one of the last administrative acts of NFJ in rugby.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-legend-loan-controversy-20161103-gsgz0w.html

Not really fair. Jim Williams could have gone to gaol for fraud and they ended up forking our their own cash to repay his debt.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

As we have seen, the RA board effectively selects it's own replacements when someone stands down. So they really have no need to listen from a political point of view.

FYI that is what pretty much all boards do. They have a nominations committee which are generally directors who aren't standing for re-election.

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

There's a very good reason Eales wasn't on the list. He was a close ally of Pulver and Clyne when he was on the ARU board.

I find this really interesting too. Nine of the eleven played with Eales but he wasn't called out. There is also two former Wallaby captains on the board (Waugh and McLean) with another two former players (Herbert and Gavin). Not to mention recent executive members such as Jeff Miller and Tony Shaw (also former Wallaby captains).

 

[Slim 293]

If this letter can't get something done at the top, then nothing will save the professional game in Australia.

Really?

 

[Juan Cote]

Not really fair. Jim Williams could have gone to gaol for fraud and they ended up forking our their own cash to repay his debt.

The debt that was originally paid for using Govt money and NFJ approved the payment without knowledge of the Board: something NFJ admits.

Not fair - I totally agree

 

[I like to watch]

They haven't listened and nor have their cheer squad on here it seems. Now they won't be listening to 11 former captains.

As we have seen, the RA board effectively selects it's own replacements when someone stands down. So they really have no need to listen from a political point of view.

I logged on here this morning optimistically thinking that the letter from the former captains would finally have led to a road to Damascus like conversion, and even with my general cynicism I genuinely thought that's would I would be reading. Instead we read personal insults pertaining to their motives etc.

If this letter can't get something done at the top, then nothing will save the professional game in Australia. All a WR (World Rugby) bailout will do will kick the can down the road. The business model is unsustainable, but they seem to remain committed to SANZAAR and its pan-continental tournaments. The money from WR (World Rugby) is very similar to the subsidies that the government gave to car companies to keep manufacturing in Australia - if the business model doesn't change then the whole thing remains financially unsustainable.

Unfortunately it’s not even complaining about your wife to your MIL.

I was never a fan of the Castle appointment.
but, if these guys think she is so poor that it requires her immediate dismissal, surely they would have a dozen examples of her incompetence that they could have listed in their letter.


the problem is the Board is responsible to the Board,and no one else.


if these guys want a revolution, I’ve got a pitchfork at the ready.
but before I could possibly support these guys, they need to at least identify what is wrong,and how they will address it.

its all a bit animal farm to me.
they say they are different, but I’m having trouble identifying how.

 

[barbarian]

John Eales clearly didn't sign because he was a part of the Board when many key decisions were made. He was in the tent.

Unlike these Captains, who have been well and truly on the outside of the tent for some tim- wait sorry, except for George Gregan, who was on the ARU Board in 2012 and 2013. And Rod McCall, who was on the ARU Board from 07-09 AND the QRU President after that.

But apart from those two, the others have all been ignor- wait, sorry I missed Nathan Sharpe who was on the QRU Board from 2016-2019 (only got to 4 of 9 meetings in 2019), and Stirling Mortlock who was on the Rebels Board from 2013-2016.

Other than those four, these guys are all outsiders who- ahh I forgot Nick Farr-Jones, who was Chairman of the NSWRU from 2010-2015. And the guys who have been paid good cash to provide commentary on the game to a massive TV audience - Phil Kearns, Michael Lynagh, Simon Poidevin, Gregan, Sharpe, Mortlock.

These past Captains have been IGNORED for too long, people. If this letter can't get something done at the top, then NOTHING will save the professional game in Australia.

 

[RugbyReg]

Near as I can tell, one of the last administrative acts of NFJ in rugby.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-legend-loan-controversy-20161103-gsgz0w.html

Poido also locked in the back bedroom for the next 5 years. https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-legend-loan-controversy-20161103-gsgz0w.html

Yep. They're cherry ripe to lead the charge.

There is no way in my mind anyone from within rugby can 'fix' rugby. It will take a concerted effort from business and communication specialists to come up with a model that is at best sustainable and none of the current protagonists seem to have these skills.

Harrison calling for a 'root and branch review'..fuck me

McCall - https://www.hopgoodganim.com.au/pag...ntation-and-procedures-in-the-sports-industry

Also McCall's printing business had a monopoly on the QRU's printing work for the duration of his time as Chairman...

 

[wamberal]

"A number of highly experienced rugby and business leaders are standing by to mentor and to lead".


Well, nothing is stopping them. Plenty of district clubs need some "mentoring and leadership". Or is that not glamorous enough for them?

 

[Jimmy_Crouch]

The debt that was originally paid for using Govt money and NFJ approved the payment without knowledge of the Board: something NFJ admits.
Not fair - I totally agree

NFJ was the chairman of the board and the other guy was the executive director. They had authority to spend that amount of money, the issue is the funds used to help Williams came from an unspent from government funded program. It was a meant to be a short term employee loan for someone who was in enormous financial distress. They made two small mistakes first of all using the funds which were from the government funded program and secondly believing Williams.

 

[Juan Cote]

NFJ was the chairman of the board and the other guy was the executive director. They had authority to spend that amount of money, the issue is the funds used to help Williams came from an unspent from government funded program. It was a meant to be a short term employee loan for someone who was in enormous financial distress. They made two small mistakes first of all using the funds which were from the government funded program and secondly believing Williams.

Quote NFJ below and a further quote from the story.
https://www.smh.com.au/sport/rugby-...-legend-loan-controversy-20161103-gsgz0w.html


"I didn't have the cash at the time, Bruce didn't have the cash at the time, Bruce said to me 'Nick there is this amount sitting in the LEL program, which is surplus, we could use that'," Farr-Jones said.
"Bruce was confident he could ... organise the loan to be refinanced and the debt to be repaid. Plus, Jim gave him assurances. Effectively I was comfortable with that and I was comfortable on the basis that I would guarantee the loan. There is no written guarantee but it was always my word. I was chairman for four years, I've put thousands of hours into it for no compensation.
"Technically, you probably should have sought consent of the board but I made that decision [not to] given the circumstances."

The trio kept the $56,000 transaction secret for more than six months until the NSWRU finance department discovered the anomaly and raised the matter with Worboys

So the loan was for six months, was totally unsecured and was not paid back within that timeframe.

It was never disclosed to anyone and took the finance dept of the NSWRU to uncover it.


Words to the effect that NFJ had put in countless hours without compensation as a part justification screams of a level of entitlement that is dangerous for executives.

 

[Juan Cote]

McCall - https://www.hopgoodganim.com.au/pag...ntation-and-procedures-in-the-sports-industry

Also McCall's printing business had a monopoly on the QRU's printing work for the duration of his time as Chairman.

Some halos slipping.......