Australian Rugby / RA

[wamberal]

The

Am I reading this right? There seems to be a section of posters who don't want ex players etc involved in running the game?

Without naming names, there are some posters with some very errrr unusual opinions. I would not waste too much time trying to debate the indisputable. AFAIK, just about every rugby club in Sydney would welcome new volunteers with open arms. And anybody who has a bit of energy and is able to contribute will have the chance to do so. There might be exceptions, again without naming names.



We are still in essence an amateur code. You have to love the game to get involved in it, and it has been a minority code in its few Australian heartlands ever since 1907. If you love the game and get involved, you will have the chance to contribute.

 

[Boof1050]

Nah thats not what we're saying at all Dan. The whole issue i feel is the old brigade are so stuck in their ways that realistically anyone with an idea that is against the status quo really doesn't get a chance or a shot at making some changes. And the problem is not so much at club level but the inbetweeners who a majority are certainly not going to upset the so called applecart for fear of losing their little grip of control.

 

[wamberal]

The old brigade. You mean those of us who have put a lot of effort into the game over a lot of years? Or do you just mean anybody of any age who understands the limitations under which we function. Rugby is not a local code, it is an international code, centrally governed, from Dublin. Our biggest money spinners are all in the international dimension, and this fact, by definition, demands sticking to the ways that are ordained from up high, not from us mortals. The scope for us to change the game is very limited. Is that what you mean by being "stuck in our ways"?


When we drill down into the realities we come up against the simple fact that our scope to change things is very limited, so any change will create winners and losers, and will be bound to enrage one or more of the stakeholders, at local, provincial or the international level. And any significant change will involve a significant degree of financial risk.


Ideas per se will achieve nothing. There are lots of those. We don't need more. We need practical options, fully costed and acceptable to all levels of the game.


That, my friend, is far easier to say than it is to achieve. And that is not because of the "old brigade being set in their ways". It is because it is the simple truth.

 

[Dan54]

Wamb, like you seem to of done I have spent years in rugby admin, from Junior level in NZ, to senior there (on provincial union etc, to senior over here in Australia, I was on committees, coached, managed teams the lot, I know I wasn't always right, all I and every person I worked with at every level just did our best. I still believe in general administrators at every level do.
I was at a pub in NZ when I was on provincial rugby union, listening to some of our rep players absolutely giving it to those old bastards running the union (they didn't know me as one) because we insisted we got rep jerseys returned after they decided they should be able to keep them, and that we were struggling to find money to keep the union afloat with costs that ranged from U14 rep teams through to them.. Had club players doing same expecting that they should be able to have any number of things that the club should always provide. Very seldom in all my years of administration and the crap I received form junior rugby on, were the crtics coming from a position of knowing how we had to work within rules/laws of both rugby and the country.
Oh and on the Union and clubs I was on almost all board members were like me ex players!

 

[Boof1050]

Glad to know that fellas but the game is FARKEN dying pure and simple! The shit we've been doing IN AUSTRALIA for umpteen years has got us here, where we are right NOW.

 

[Juan Cote]

In all these discussions the players get off lightly. We sack coach after coach at provincial and national level and nothing changes. I believe for the last decade, save for two false dawns in 2011 and 2014, that our players are uncoachable.

That’s not to detract from the abomination that is the game’s administration, but the players are never accountable for mediocrity and never seem to improve on anything from season to season.

That so many of them cannot execute basic skills consistently says all you need to know.

 

[Dan54]

Glad to know that fellas but the game is FARKEN dying pure and simple! The shit we've been doing IN AUSTRALIA for umpteen years has got us here, where we are right NOW.

Not suggesting the game hasn't got problems that need addressing, the only reason I was replying was to say let's address the problem, and not just say it's because it the same old ex players etc that are involved with running the game. They have a lot to offer, and many seem to be successful businessmen with a feeling for the game, so would probably be the ones we need having a lot of input.
I really saying let's look at ourselves as fans or supporters of the game and not just continually project doom and gloom when talking about the game,you or I can put new people off the game as much as mistakes administrators does.
Ok Ok I cop plenty of shit on here because I like to look at positive side of the game etc, but hey I think it a great game and will tell everyone here and when I having a beer etc so!

 

[Pfitzy]

In all these discussions the players get off lightly. We sack coach after coach at provincial and national level and nothing changes. I believe for the last decade, save for two false dawns in 2011 and 2014, that our players are uncoachable.

That’s not to detract from the abomination that is the game’s administration, but the players are never accountable for mediocrity and never seem to improve on anything from season to season.

That so many of them cannot execute basic skills consistently says all you need to know.

And why? Because the development pathway - particularly in Sydney - is narrow, in-bred, and completely decoupled from grassroots rugby.

 

[Braveheart81]

The old brigade. You mean those of us who have put a lot of effort into the game over a lot of years? Or do you just mean anybody of any age who understands the limitations under which we function. Rugby is not a local code, it is an international code, centrally governed, from Dublin. Our biggest money spinners are all in the international dimension, and this fact, by definition, demands sticking to the ways that are ordained from up high, not from us mortals. The scope for us to change the game is very limited. Is that what you mean by being "stuck in our ways"?

When we drill down into the realities we come up against the simple fact that our scope to change things is very limited, so any change will create winners and losers, and will be bound to enrage one or more of the stakeholders, at local, provincial or the international level. And any significant change will involve a significant degree of financial risk.

Ideas per se will achieve nothing. There are lots of those. We don't need more. We need practical options, fully costed and acceptable to all levels of the game.

That, my friend, is far easier to say than it is to achieve. And that is not because of the "old brigade being set in their ways". It is because it is the simple truth.

Of course change is difficult and no one has a clear idea of how to fix the issues in Australian rugby because they are many and complex.

Your posts are something of an example of the difficulties rugby in Australia has moving forward. You are protective of your patch (Eastwood, club rugby etc.) and get defensive whenever someone suggests the need for change.

At the heart of everything is that Australian rugby needs the various pieces working together. I don't think anyone could reasonably say that there has been strong alignment and collaboration between the various levels and sectors of rugby in Australia for a long time if not forever.

Change is required. What was successful in the past is less so now. The systems that provided the pathways for Australian rugby to be both successful on the field and financially strong are no longer doing the job because the world has changed and our competition has either adapted better or haven't faced the same obstacles.

What we can't have is segments of our game deciding that their little section is working and they are unwilling to change because they don't see themselves as the problem. Meanwhile, that same section can't survive with what they're doing without additional funding.

No one questions the work and effort put in and the love that the "old brigade" has for Australian rugby. The past counts for little though if we can't stay strong into the future. We need everyone working together and moving in the same direction. What we absolutely can't have is the white-anting that has been prevalent over the last decade in particular where segments of the Shute Shield in particular have basically been running their own cold war against NSW rugby and Rugby Australia.

 

[RedsHappy]

Wamb, like you seem to of done I have spent years in rugby admin, from Junior level in NZ, to senior there (on provincial union etc, to senior over here in Australia, I was on committees, coached, managed teams the lot, I know I wasn't always right, all I and every person I worked with at every level just did our best. I still believe in general administrators at every level do.
I was at a pub in NZ when I was on provincial rugby union, listening to some of our rep players absolutely giving it to those old bastards running the union (they didn't know me as one) because we insisted we got rep jerseys returned after they decided they should be able to keep them, and that we were struggling to find money to keep the union afloat with costs that ranged from U14 rep teams through to them.. Had club players doing same expecting that they should be able to have any number of things that the club should always provide. Very seldom in all my years of administration and the crap I received form junior rugby on, were the crtics coming from a position of knowing how we had to work within rules/laws of both rugby and the country.
Oh and on the Union and clubs I was on almost all board members were like me ex players!

Just for the record: I have never said that 'ex players' per se should not play a role, or only play a very limited role, in helping, running, furthering, supporting the code in this country and at whatever level. Such a stance would be ridiculous but it seems to have suddenly evolved into a type of straw-man here.

What I do believe is that, in the established elite networks of the code in Australia, it has been too easy for a relatively small group of like-minded persons (of similar social backgrounds), including some well networked ex-players, to perpetuate an insular, in-bred, unimaginative, and, yes, 'elitist' mode of governing the code. These elite networks have tended to mistake their own rugby passions and self-reinforcing views regarding the code for the type of leadership essential to sustaining a football code in the Australian sports marketplace.

The consequence of that mode, inter alia, has meant that the governing elites within our RUs (a) have typically been detached from the motivations and rugby-loving preferences of the 'everyday' rugby fan and, worse, (b) have not possessed the skills, backgrounds and openness of thinking essential to defining strategic paths by which rugby can be maintained and enhanced in code market share terms and in fan viability terms.

Just look at the state of the code today, QLD and NSW struggling to win games with undistinguished teams playing with ordinary-to-poor skills levels, imported coaches all over the place as we have not grown enough of our own, the Rebels in a state of high fragility team and business wise, awful crowd and media-watching numbers, the Wallabies, what, 6th or 7th in the world rankings following a truly mediocre RWC...........and so on.

Do we really think that the historical modalities and micro-cultures of the ARU/RU and the State RUs have nothing to do with this appalling state of affairs? That there are no common themes of gross historical governance inadequacy running through this tawdry 2020 sporting reality? That it's all just random unfortunateness and some kind of inescapable black hand of fate?

 

[RedsHappy]

In all these discussions the players get off lightly. We sack coach after coach at provincial and national level and nothing changes. I believe for the last decade, save for two false dawns in 2011 and 2014, that our players are uncoachable.

That’s not to detract from the abomination that is the game’s administration, but the players are never accountable for mediocrity and never seem to improve on anything from season to season.

That so many of them cannot execute basic skills consistently says all you need to know.

Cote btw delighted to see an old GAGR editorial stalwart back here, even if only in rare glimpses. Many posters today would not know of your pedigree.

Of course you make an excellent set of points above. However, we can blame players, coaches, whomever, but who or what is ultimately responsible for this state of affairs? Large groups of pro players will never self-correct their own failings.

There has to be systemic intervention from the top of the code and strategic investment in skills development at all levels of the code. This is just one of the many dimensions of code success that the NZRU has got right for a very long time.

 

[barbarian]

Paul McLean appointed as Chair. He'd need to be voted in at the AGM to become the permanent Chair, I believe.

I don't know much of his (off the field) pedigree, but I do know he has been on the Board since 2013.

It's not exactly a vote for change.

 

[Wilson]

Paul McLean appointed as Chair. He'd need to be voted in at the AGM to become the permanent Chair, I believe.

I don't know much of his (off the field) pedigree, but I do know he has been on the Board since 2013.

It's not exactly a vote for change.

Very much an interim position as I understand it, done because the board realized just how bad the optics were of Clyne continuing in the role for the broadcast negotiations only to finish up immediately afterwards. Looks like McLean was picked because he is "... the most senior Director remaining on the Board beyond the AGM".

I don't think he's legitimately being looked at as the permanent chair after the AGM.

https://www.rugby.com.au/news/2020/02/23/rugby-australia-mclean-clyne-chairman

 

[barbarian]

Yes, that's correct.

The timing is odd though. You'd think it has something to do with the TV negotiations.

 

[Wilson]

Oh absolutely it's probably to do with the TV negotiations and the added scrutiny the open tender is bringing. That said it's the smart thing to have Clyne step aside and probably just a case of everyone being more careful in the wake of the ASIC case against Harold Mitchell. Doubt you can read much into beyond that.

 

[formerflanker]

Not sure where to put this but here's encouraging news:

Ex-Wallaby Richard Tombs who was left in a wheelchair after a freak soccer accident was the centre of attention as he took careful steps across the beach at the weekend with the help of two mates.​

Amazed fans and well-wishers at a charity event at Shelly Beach congratulated him on his progress, delighted to see him on two feet.​

(Telegraph)​

 

[Ignoto]

Reading through Kepu's and Samu's affidavit's there's some truly ironic tid bits;

Samu;

Mostly I found it concerning because these were young men who appeared to me to be in the process of finding their faith. I know from personal experience that being young and Christian can be a struggle. There are times when you might not be sure where you stand with your faith and fear what comes after this life. Finding your faith can be a real struggle, especially in the modern world. Seeing someone in a similar position to them be sacked for expressing his faith was apparently making that struggle more difficult.

Kepu;

Before Israel started, two or three of us Christian players would pray before games, hiding in a corner. lacked the confidence to show my faith, thinking that other players might view us as "weirdos" for being religious.

During the 2019 Rugby World Cup, it was obvious to me that our Opposing teams were kicking to us more often than they had previously, often via a high ball. I would think to myself "we need Israel out here".

 

[Braveheart81]

Kepu;Before Israel started, two or three of us Christian players would pray before games, hiding in a corner. lacked the confidence to show my faith, thinking that other players might view us as "weirdos" for being religious.

Seems like a weight of numbers thing mostly. Given the overwhelming majority of the Christian players praying before/after games are of PI descent, there's a pretty substantial change in the makeup of the Wallabies from prior to 2013 to now.

 

[JeepsTragic]

Reading through Kepu's and Samu's affidavit's there's some truly ironic tid bits;



Samu;





Kepu;

The whole process shouts even louder that Castle has got to go. Hopefully Paul McLean will do one positive thing for the game in his interim role as Chairman, and sack Castle. How much more damage is she going to do to Australian rugby? How long has she been in charge and can anybody name one positive thing she has done for the game?

The first step to making Australian Rugby Great Again is to sack her.

 

[Braveheart81]

The whole process shouts even louder that Castle has got to go. Hopefully Paul McLean will do one positive thing for the game in his interim role as Chairman, and sack Castle. How much more damage is she going to do to Australian rugby? How long has she been in charge and can anybody name one positive thing she has done for the game?

The first step to making Australian Rugby Great Again is to sack her.

LOL.