Australian Rugby / RA

[drewprint]

None were named but I posted a link to a Daily Telegraph article upthread.

Is this the article where it’s Folaus own lawyer who claims this? If so, fucking lol.

 

[sidelineview]

I think it's "ye". My faith is based on things that can be measured. Plenty has been written on the substance of his church and the reality of the property portfolio. Accumulating properties in the name of religion is a tax rort, no more or less. Pious utterings on your part will change my opinion not one whit.

I have the upmost respect for your beliefs but you're making some mighty big accusations there pilgram and inferring that money is the key motivating force in this saga. I beg to differ.

I'm not trying to change your opinion; I'm just expressing mine.

i wasn't being pious; I'm not the pious type. I'm a big fat sinner. I hope I don't go to hell if it exists but I'm not confident.

 

[James Pettifer]

If RA just wanted to watch some footy they wouldn't have sacked Folau in the first place. They could have just said we don't agree with his beliefs but we respect his right to share them on his own social media, endured a couple of weeks of criticism from the Twitterverse, and weathered it out until Folau started scoring tries again.

Instead, they made a big deal of being a "values-based" organisation and decided to punt one of their most popular players for expressing his religious views, oblivious to the conflict of the values they champion with the culture of one of their biggest player demographics. The fact that a number of Pacific Wallabies were prepared to appear for Folau just shows how flat-footed - even insular - the RA board was on this issue. In short, they decided to become an active participant in the culture wars, and they got their nose bloodied as a consequence.

And, as anyone on here would tell you (because pretty much everyone has) actions have consequences.

And if they had done nothing and he continued to make controversial comments - as he has done - they would have had continual controversy over the rest of his contract and they would be in a much worse position.

 

[sidelineview]

If RA just wanted to watch some footy they wouldn't have sacked Folau in the first place. They could have just said we don't agree with his beliefs but we respect his right to share them on his own social media, endured a couple of weeks of criticism from the Twitterverse, and weathered it out until Folau started scoring tries again.

Instead, they made a big deal of being a "values-based" organisation and decided to punt one of their most popular players for expressing his religious views, oblivious to the conflict of the values they champion with the culture of one of their biggest player demographics. The fact that a number of Pacific Wallabies were prepared to appear for Folau just shows how flat-footed - even insular - the RA board was on this issue. In short, they decided to become an active participant in the culture wars, and they got their nose bloodied as a consequence.

And, as anyone on here would tell you (because pretty much everyone has) actions have consequences.

Right on brother. You nailed it.

 

[James Pettifer]

That's not entirely true.

He qualified that statement by saying he was later disappointed when he saw Castle being interviewed.
He thought he was being misrepresented by what she said.

So that part of the story is not black and white.

He needed legal counsel from the word go.

That's not entirely true.

He qualified that statement by saying he was later disappointed when he saw Castle being interviewed.
He thought he was being misrepresented by what she said.

So that part of the story is not black and white.

He needed legal counsel from the word go.

Direct quote from Folau’s article on players voice

After we’d all talked, I told Raelene if she felt the situation had become untenable – that I was hurting Rugby Australia, its sponsors and the Australian rugby community to such a degree that things couldn’t be worked through – I would walk away from my contract, immediately.



I feel I need to explain this part in more detail because at no stage over the past two weeks have I wanted that to happen.



There have been things written about me angling to get a release from my Rugby Australia deal to pursue an NRL contract. That simply isn’t true. There have been rugby offers from the UK, Europe and Japan that are way above anything I could earn in Australia.



This is not about money or bargaining power or contracts. It’s about what I believe in and never compromising that, because my faith is far more important to me than my career and always will be.



After the meeting I went home, turned on the TV and was really disappointed with some of the things that were said in the press conference.



I felt Raelene misrepresented my position and my comments, and did so to appease other people, which is an issue I need to discuss with her and others at Rugby Australia.



That aside, I hope Raelene and Andrew appreciate my position, even if it differs with theirs.


Read more at https://www.athletesvoice.com.au/israel-folau-im-a-sinner-too/#QuZITLrIGIebe501.99

 

[Lorenzo]

If RA just wanted to watch some footy they wouldn't have sacked Folau in the first place. They could have just said we don't agree with his beliefs but we respect his right to share them on his own social media, endured a couple of weeks of criticism from the Twitterverse, and weathered it out until Folau started scoring tries again.

Instead, they made a big deal of being a "values-based" organisation and decided to punt one of their most popular players for expressing his religious views, oblivious to the conflict of the values they champion with the culture of one of their biggest player demographics. The fact that a number of Pacific Wallabies were prepared to appear for Folau just shows how flat-footed - even insular - the RA board was on this issue. In short, they decided to become an active participant in the culture wars, and they got their nose bloodied as a consequence.

And, as anyone on here would tell you (because pretty much everyone has) actions have consequences.

Yeah we woulda been so much better off he'd been part of the tent when he said SSM caused the fucking bushfires! How good would that have been!

As for the islanders, they are all welcome to fuck off too, as is anyone that wants to be a bigot. Have we actually lost any PI players of note as a result of folau getting boned? I bet we haven't.

This was a great opportunity to introduce the no-dickhead policy that we've desperately needed for a while, and we're better off for them taking it.

 

[cyclopath]

I have the upmost respect for your beliefs but you're making some mighty big accusations there pilgram and inferring that money is the key motivating force in this saga. I beg to differ.

I'm not trying to change your opinion; I'm just expressing mine.

i wasn't being pious; I'm not the pious type. I'm a big fat sinner. I hope I don't go to hell if it exists but I'm not confident.

Money not the key motivating factor?? Are you serious? He made one monetary claim, then upped it by 40% later. Despite people like you throwing lots of money at him via the ACL. Dressing it up as a crusade for freedom of speech is smoke and mirrors as far as I am concerned when you just keep asking for more money to ease your pain. Very hard to see any other logical explanation from the point of view of someone who doesn't share his brand of Kool-Aid.

 

[Lorenzo]

Money not the key motivating factor?? Are you serious? He made one monetary claim, then upped it by 40% later. Despite people like you throwing lots of money at him via the ACL. Dressing it up as a crusade for freedom of speech is smoke and mirrors as far as I am concerned when you just keep asking for more money to ease your pain. Very hard to see any other logical explanation from the point of view of someone who doesn't share his brand of Kool-Aid.

But there's draft legislation and everything

 

[sidelineview]

Yeah we woulda been so much better off he'd been part of the tent when he said SSM caused the fucking bushfires! How good would that have been!

As for the islanders, they are all welcome to fuck off too, as is anyone that wants to be a bigot. Have we actually lost any PI players of note as a result of folau getting boned? I bet we haven't.

This was a great opportunity to introduce the no-dickhead policy that we've desperately needed for a while, and we're better off for them taking it.

You're trying hard to convict of anything that will stick.

It's amazing that out of all the Christian sermons that were given that week only Folau's was recorded and exposed on social media.
I'd like to view it to see if was taken in context.

Do you realise the Old Testament is full of stories of God's fury. Example Sodom and Gomorrah. You know that one.

It's not so unusual for Christian preachers to deliver a sermon along those lines to highlight man's and society's sins.
I've never heard a fire and brimstone sermon of that nature but I've heard references to it, just as a reminder to a congregation to try to stay on the straight and narrow. Similar to the Bible verse Folau referred to in his infamous social media post.

Pick that one to pieces.

 

[Lorenzo]

You're trying hard to convict of anything that will stick.

It's amazing that out of all the Christian sermons that were given that week only Folau's was recorded and exposed on social media.
I'd like to view it to see if was taken in context.

Do you realise the Old Testament is full of stories of God's fury. Example Sodom and Gomorrah. You know that one.

It's not so unusual for Christian preachers to deliver a sermon along those lines to highlight man's and society's sins.
I've never heard a fire and brimstone sermon of that nature but I've heard references to it, just as a reminder to a congregation to try to stay on the straight and narrow. Similar to the Bible verse Folau referred to in his infamous social media post.

Pick that one to pieces.

I don't give a rat's ass about the bible, it's very clearly total horseshit. its like thinking harry potter is real.

I do note, that several high profile Christians, including the PM himself, have condemned his remarks. So I don't think I believe your "um it was kinda like a bible story I guess" bullshit explanation.

It's not me that's tripping over himself to arrive an illogical conclusion in this thread.

 

[sidelineview]

Money not the key motivating factor?? Are you serious? He made one monetary claim, then upped it by 40% later. Despite people like you throwing lots of money at him via the ACL. Dressing it up as a crusade for freedom of speech is smoke and mirrors as far as I am concerned when you just keep asking for more money to ease your pain. Very hard to see any other logical explanation from the point of view of someone who doesn't share his brand of Kool-Aid.

You're entitled to your opinion but in my opinion the up-the-ante $14 mill was lawyers at play.

You know what they're like. Once the legal eagles take over, they determine the tactics.

I'm glad Joe Averages like me donated modest sums of money which collectively added up to a lot to pay for his legals.
Along with many other people, I'm happy to have been a part of a very satisfying achievement.

 

[Aurelius]

Yeah we woulda been so much better off he'd been part of the tent when he said SSM caused the fucking bushfires! How good would that have been!

Right. The bushfire comments.

Look, like I'm sure pretty much everyone else who heard that, I thought it was appalling. But it was also entirely unsurprising. Folau evidently thought he was being punished - persecuted, even - for his beliefs. You know what people do in that situation? A lot of the time they double down, become more extreme, more outspoken. Which is exactly what Folau did. It was ugly but entirely foreseeable, and at least partially a result of RA turning him into a martyr. There's no way to prove this one way or the other, but I suspect that if he hadn't been driven pretty much out of the public square by his employers, that he wouldn't have said what he did.

Before he was sacked did he have a history of blaming so-called sins for natural disasters? I'm not aware of it. As far as I know, he tended to save his fire-and-brimstone stuff for the hellbound.

Incidentally, had he been sacked for his bushfire comments and not some silly Biblical meme I think he would have had far fewer defenders and RA's decision would have been far less controversial. After all, bushfires are demonstrably real with real, flesh-and-blood victims. Hell? That's strictly a matter of faith.

As for the islanders, they are all welcome to fuck off too, as is anyone that wants to be a bigot. Have we actually lost any PI players of note as a result of folau getting boned? I bet we haven't.

Fine. Who gets to define who's a bigot and who isn't? The board? The CEO? The coach? You? Me?

What subjects should players be allowed to speak about on their own time? What opinions should they be allowed to express on those subjects?

Heck, I haven't even seen any evidence that Israel Folau himself is personally homophobic. Misguided, sure. But as I've pointed out on the "Folau saga" thread, the meme he posted was meant as a warning - to a whole bunch of people, not just homosexuals - not as a threat or an expression of hatred. You really can't call someone a bigot for something they say unless you take into account the intent behind it.

 

[Aurelius]

You're entitled to your opinion but in my opinion the up-the-ante $14 mill was lawyers at play.

Thank you.

 

[Juan Cote]

If Izzy got $8M, just imagine what sort of payout JC would have gotten if he had have retained Izzy's legal team.

 

[Derpus]

I dont get why you lot are arguing about this. Its religion. Its inherently irrational. Neither of you can reason the other into agreeing.

 

[Lorenzo]

Management gets to decide, like in any other job. Arriving at conclusions about staff conduct is literally part of management's job. Just like McGrath management had to decide that the sales persons's remarks constituted sexual harassment. It's a judgement call. Management is literally there to run the business. If the employee thinks the punishment was unwarranted, they have avenues for remedies, as we have literally just seen.

As for blaming RA for folaus bushfire remarks, good one mate.

 

[Lorenzo]

You're entitled to your opinion but in my opinion the up-the-ante $14 mill was lawyers at play.

You know what they're like. Once the legal eagles take over, they determine the tactics.

I'm glad Joe Averages like me donated modest sums of money which collectively added up to a lot to pay for his legals.
Along with many other people, I'm happy to have been a part of a very satisfying achievement.

"Any part of this that I can't explain is just lawyers and legislation and stuff"

 

[sidelineview]

I don't give a rat's ass about the bible, it's very clearly total horseshit.

I do note, that several high profile Christians, including the PM himself, have condemned his remarks. So I don't think I believe your "um it was kinda like a bible story I guess" bullshit explanation.

It's not me that's tripping over himself to arrive an illogical conclusion in this thread.

The PM labelled Folau's comments re bush fires as being insensitive and that's understandable.

The ACL's view?
The Australian Christian Lobby responded to Folau's comments on Monday afternoon.
“Sermons don’t lend themselves to quick soundbites, and the media’s attempts to paraphrase a sermon has caused some unnecessary angst,” ACL Managing Director Martyn Iles said.
“For one thing, Israel did not claim to know that the current bushfires are God’s direct judgement for same-sex marriage.”
“Nobody knows God’s mind, nor do they understand ultimately why bad things happen,” he added.
The ACL said it is calling on Australians "to pray for our nation and to help those who are doing it tough, including victims, firefighters and their communities".

The PM had previously praised Folau for his strength of character:

The federal treasurer, Scott Morrison, has backed Wallabies star Israel Folau’s “strong character” in standing up for his religious belief that gay people will go to hell unless they repent their sins.
Rugby Australia has opted not to sanction Folau after he made the comment on social media, despite sponsors raising concerns over his anti-homosexual views.
Morrison, a practising Christian, moved amendments to protect religious freedom that were voted down during last year’s parliamentary debate on same-sex marriage legislation. He said not everyone had to agree about religion but described Folau as a “good man”.

“It clearly means a lot to Izzy and good for him for standing up for his faith,” Morrison told News Corp’s Miranda Devine Live on Wednesday. “He wouldn’t have wanted to intend to have offended or hurt anyone because that’s very much against the faith that he feels so passionately about.
“But I think he’s shown a lot of strength of character in just standing up for what he believes in and I think that’s what this country is all about.”

 

[cyclopath]

You're entitled to your opinion but in my opinion the up-the-ante $14 mill was lawyers at play.

You know what they're like. Once the legal eagles take over, they determine the tactics.

I'm glad Joe Averages like me donated modest sums of money which collectively added up to a lot to pay for his legals.
Along with many other people, I'm happy to have been a part of a very satisfying achievement.

Ah, the lawyers fault. Got it. Poor Izzy taken for a ride, when he only wanted a $10 million apology and was forced to ask for a $14 million one. Or is it $16 million with the ACL money? So hard to keep track of all this financial balm to soothe his infringed freedom.

 

[Lorenzo]

The PM labelled Folau's comments re bush fires as being insensitive and that's understandable.

The ACL's view?
The Australian Christian Lobby responded to Folau's comments on Monday afternoon.
“Sermons don’t lend themselves to quick soundbites, and the media’s attempts to paraphrase a sermon has caused some unnecessary angst,” ACL Managing Director Martyn Iles said.
“For one thing, Israel did not claim to know that the current bushfires are God’s direct judgement for same-sex marriage.”
“Nobody knows God’s mind, nor do they understand ultimately why bad things happen,” he added.
The ACL said it is calling on Australians "to pray for our nation and to help those who are doing it tough, including victims, firefighters and their communities".

The PM had previously praised Folau for his strength of character:

The federal treasurer, Scott Morrison, has backed Wallabies star Israel Folau’s “strong character” in standing up for his religious belief that gay people will go to hell unless they repent their sins.
Rugby Australia has opted not to sanction Folau after he made the comment on social media, despite sponsors raising concerns over his anti-homosexual views.
Morrison, a practising Christian, moved amendments to protect religious freedom that were voted down during last year’s parliamentary debate on same-sex marriage legislation. He said not everyone had to agree about religion but described Folau as a “good man”.

“It clearly means a lot to Izzy and good for him for standing up for his faith,” Morrison told News Corp’s Miranda Devine Live on Wednesday. “He wouldn’t have wanted to intend to have offended or hurt anyone because that’s very much against the faith that he feels so passionately about.
“But I think he’s shown a lot of strength of character in just standing up for what he believes in and I think that’s what this country is all about.”

Why would I give a shit about what the ACL says? Perhaps we should contact George Pell? Or do you have another convicted sex offender that could give us an appropriately christian take on things?