Australian Rugby / RA

[Lorenzo]

They don't seem that thrilled in the victory speech. He seems like he's reading from a teleprompter, though given some of the words exceeded 2 syllables I accept that he likely was.

 

[Show-n-go]

They don't seem that thrilled in the victory speech. He seems like he's reading from a teleprompter, though given some of the words exceeded 2 syllables I accept that he likely was.

Probably don’t need the personal insults in there

If you disagree with him fine but why lower yourself to his perceived level

 

[barbarian]

This stuff always comes down to money in the end

I thought the difference here was it was about so much more than money. For once this was a dispute about principle, about religious freedom, about virtue-signalling corporate behemoths. It was the showdown of 2019, with the future of religious freedom at stake.

But now was about money all along, or just getting an apology.

It comes from the fact that both sides are now too entrenched in their views, and will just spin this any way they want to.
.

 

[formerflanker]

Man I can't keep up with the shifting goalposts here. Now apparently all he wanted all along was an apology. The court case and the $14m was just window dressing then it seems. OK.

Not shifting the goalposts. A quick Google search shows Israel asking for an apology in late June of this year, before the Fair Work hearing. it's been an issue since then and Clyne/Castle ignored it.
Also, I'm not saying he didn't want financial restitution for being sacked. I am saying the apology is a vital aspect of Israel's perception of a win. I assume many others think so too.

 

[Lorenzo]

I never advised him to become a public speaker. He could have easily cruised through his career making 15m gross and spending his time and money ACTUALLY helping those in need through donations, or championing a cause. Like why have we never heard him campaign for the homeless, or the victims of child sexual abuse, or the structurally unemployed, or the mentally ill? Yknow, the type of people Jesus supposedly said Christians should be helping?

He's advertised himself as someone with poor impulse control and limited intellectual ability and I don't feel guilty pointing any of that out.

 

[Lorenzo]

Not shifting the goalposts. A quick Google search shows Israel asking for an apology in late June of this year, before the Fair Work hearing. it's been an issue since then and Clyne/Castle ignored it.
Also, I'm not saying he didn't want financial restitution for being sacked. I am saying the apology is a vital aspect of Israel's perception of a win. I assume many others think so too.

Israel also said at one point that he would walk away from his contract if RC felt that the situation became untenable.

So yknow, he's got form for being completely full of shit.

 

[sidelineview]

All his supporters have won is the knowledge that if you are multi millionaire with a public profile that allows you to solicit 2m in donations, you can commence litigation with a confidential outcome.

How does this help a person of typical means if they cant afford to sue when they feel they've been discriminated against?

I dare say that anyone that donated because they thought this would end in a favourable legal precedent would feel someone taken for a ride right now.

This is exactly what the ACL and political figures like Latham want.
That is, a legislated Bill that will protect the Joe Average person in the street from being sacked for expressing their religious beliefs.
They are hoping this Folau case will lead the way to that ultimate goal.

 

[barbarian]

This is exactly what the ACL and political figures like Latham want.
That is, a legislated Bill that will protect the Joe Average person in the street from being sacked for expressing their religious beliefs.
They are hoping this Folau case will lead the way to that ultimate goal.

Well they want that, but they also REALLY wanted this case to go all the way to the High Court, and for Folau to win.

Legal precedent is established, RA is suitable embarrassed and Israel is the champion of a new era in religious freedom.
.

 

[Lorenzo]

Why didn't Folau pursue the case through the courts to get a legal precedent, which would have overwhelmingly have pumped the political capital for legislating? This was supposed to be the test case. The idea that maybe someday in the future we will have a religious freedom act doesn't explain why he didn't persevere if that's what was important.

 

[sidelineview]

Money must buy some really, really high moral ground, I guess. Or maybe Folau Super Rugby just wanted to expand the property portfolio, ahem, sorry, I mean Church he runs.

O yea of little faith and so full of cynicism ...

 

[Show-n-go]

He's advertised himself as someone with poor impulse control and limited intellectual ability and I don't feel guilty pointing any of that out.

You do you boo

Saying you think someone has limited intellectual capacity is fine, making a crack about him not being able to string a sentence together is just a cheap shot

 

[sidelineview]

RA & Castle absolutely made the right choice settling. Get this nonsense over and done with and move on. Whilst important for many, it’s not RA’s fight to set precedence for employee rights. Saying sorry cost RA sweet fuck all and affects nothing. Whereas Folau was the nut who was supposedly fighting for freedom and he’s completely caved. I’m sure his backers are really glad they gave money to illustrate what? Nothing. IF will desperately leaking a much higher figure than he received to save face, but he lost, he’s still fired & his image is tarnished forever.

I'm happy. I dont think he caved. He received his apology and compensation. Good luck to him and his wife

He has powerful political backing which aims to see legislation passed through parliament regarding religious discrimination.

 

[qwerty51]

So elephant in the room. What if this is repeated? What do RA do?

If another player posts something similar to what Folau did under the religious excuse and they’re sacked they’re going to claim unfair dismissal too.

 

[sidelineview]

So why didn't he go to court then? If it was about the principle, then why pull out of the fight when a cash offer was put on the table?

It just seems like a bit of a cop out. It's like the Wallabies losing the Bledisloe, being beaten by South Africa but claiming the Puma trophy in the last game of the Rugby Championship.

Sure it's a trophy you can put in the cabinet, but is it really a victory?

Conversely, why didn't RA stick to their guns and put him to the sword if they were so confident? They wanted him to cave in before it got to this point but it didnt work.

It must have been personally taxing for all concerned so they'd be feeling relieved.

You may not realise how important this decision was to a lot of people who arent represented on this G & G thread.

 

[Benaud]

So elephant in the room. What if this is repeated? What do RA do?

If another player posts something similar to what Folau did under the religious excuse and they’re sacked they’re going to claim unfair dismissal too.

It's going to happen. Just a matter of time. We get to live it all out again then!

 

[Lorenzo]

Um. He sued them. RA has never expressed an interest in drawn out legal proceedings. It was the folau camp and his supporters that wanted this to go all the way to the high court so they could secure protections for others.

Along with being easily led and not that bright, the guy lacks integrity. Can't kick, either.

 

[sidelineview]

vindication
/vɪndɪˈkeɪʃ(ə)n/
Learn to pronounce
noun

1. the action of clearing someone of blame or suspicion.
   "I intend to work to ensure my full vindication"
   • proof that someone or something is right, reasonable, or justified.
     "the results were interpreted as vindication of the company's policy"

Nope, still can't see how he was vindicated

A statement from RA, RNSW and Folau said the post reflected Folau’s “genuinely held religious beliefs” and that he “did not intend to harm or offend any person when he uploaded the post”.

 

[wamberal]

So elephant in the room. What if this is repeated? What do RA do?

If another player posts something similar to what Folau did under the religious excuse and they’re sacked they’re going to claim unfair dismissal too.

There is only one Folau. Firstly, he had a huge image in Australian rugby and was worth a lot to the game. Secondly, he was recognised as a world class player, albeit deeply flawed in some important respects. Thirdly, he is a member of what amounts to a sect, and his father is the leader of the sect.

RA trusted him to keep his word, and he didn't. I doubt they are relying on any other players keeping their word. Absent any specific legislation that might or might not get into law, nothing of this magnitude can happen again.

 

[barbarian]

Conversely, why didn't RA stick to their guns and put him to the sword if they were so confident? They wanted him to cave in before it got to this point but it didnt work.
.

But they had nothing to gain. They were still going to incur costs, with the legal fees stretching to millions if the case dragged out, not to mention the publicity overshadowing the game itself.

On the other hand, IF and his team really had everything to gain.

A settlement in this case suits RA far more than it does IF and his backers. It's not the ideal scenario obviously, but from the shit sandwich of a situation it's far from the worst case scenario.
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[fatprop]

I thought the difference here was it was about so much more than money. For once this was a dispute about principle, about religious freedom, about virtue-signalling corporate behemoths. It was the showdown of 2019, with the future of religious freedom at stake.

But now was about money all along, or just getting an apology.

It comes from the fact that both sides are now too entrenched in their views, and will just spin this any way they want to.
.

They will often start off as some moral right, but then the Solicitors, Barristers & Judges get involved it ends up about money