Australian Rugby / RA

[wamberal]

What do the New Zealanders do, I wonder? I think I can guess.

 

[Quick Hands]

Well then no one should complain when we don't win.

Ridiculous assertion.

I think even the players would choose a Junior Wallaby cap over a Super cap.

Not about the level of the competition.

It's the privilege and honour of playing for your country.

The bigger question is why players who have been playing in a super rugby franchise don't have the requisite skills to be successful in a restricted age competition.

Dare one suggest that they aren't learning the core skills as well as other countries.

Further evidence of the abject standard of elite coaching in Australia.

 

[Rugrat]

Whether true or not, Kafer was widely regarded by Brumbies' fans at the time as being the architect of their second half plays in a period where they often ran away with the game after half time.

No idea if Kafer can coach senior footballers, no track record but he isn’t hired to coach teams.
I can confirm that I recently watched him coach for an hour some under 14 lads at the c2 k academy on Sunday morning focusing on running straight, drawing opposition and passing drills. He did a great job. Not sure relevant to his ARU duties just saying coaching the fundamentals he was very good. At the time of watching I was thinking if only senior players could listen and adapt as well as 14 year olds eager to learn.

 

[Quick Hands]

What do the New Zealanders do, I wonder? I think I can guess.

The NZRU would have a structure in place to ensure that all their young players have access to the best possible coaching and are thus prepared for whatever tournament in which they play, whether that be super rugby or U20 RWC.

RA on the other hand have no such successful structure in place - one that works that is.

 

[Quick Hands]

No idea if Kafer can coach senior footballers, no track record but he isn’t hired to coach teams.
I can confirm that I recently watched him coach for an hour some under 14 lads at the c2 k academy on Sunday morning focusing on running straight, drawing opposition and passing drills. He did a great job. Not sure relevant to his ARU duties just saying coaching the fundamentals he was very good. At the time of watching I was thinking if only senior players could listen and adapt as well as 14 year olds eager to learn.

That was the area of the game in which he was very good as a player.

 

[Joe Blow]

He excelled at running straight and creating space for others. I have no idea if he is a decent coach in the modern climate but he has good knowledge and a very good understanding of attacking back play.

 

[I like to watch]

The bigger question is why players who have been playing in a super rugby franchise don't have the requisite skills to be successful in a restricted age competition.

Dare one suggest that they aren't learning the core skills as well as other countries.

Further evidence of the abject standard of elite coaching in Australia.

I actually think they are coaching the skills out of them, in the “professional” philosophy of reducing errors.

 

[RedsHappy]

The NZRU would have a structure in place to ensure that all their young players have access to the best possible coaching and are thus prepared for whatever tournament in which they play, whether that be super rugby or U20 RWC.

RA on the other hand have no such successful structure in place - one that works that is.

In 2009 my 10 year-old Brisbane-based son went on a rugby tour to NZ to play U11s private school teams there. After one match in Auckland - which our school lost - a tall man of obviously Islander descent but with a Kiwi accent came over to our boys and in a courteous and most helpful manner proceeded to give them some tips as to how they might improve their skills. His explanations and the way he engaged the boys was frankly superior to our school's coaches.

I spoke to him later to thank him and he told me that he was engaged by the NZRU as a rugby coaching aide to boys at that level/age, also turned out he was an ex All Black.

 

[Rebelsfan]

Macqueen certainly made a mess of his time at the Rebels. Some terrible selections and other decisions.


Otherwise, I agree, Reg, there is nothing to see here that is in any way a possibly way forward. (That said, I do recall that Dick Marks was given the job, many years ago, of producing a standard coaching and playing manual for Australian rugby. Maybe he could update that?)

maybe his coaching and playing manual is the reason why we haven't got any decent coaches and our players lack basic skill execution

 

[RedsHappy]

Having Clyne actually do something is worse.

Ask anyone from the banking sector.

Indeed.

Additionally I assume we have collectively noticed the ravenous appetite our typically hapless RA and State RU boards have for ex-bankers (investment and/or retail) in the senior board roles? JO'N, Hawker, Clyne, Davis, Frawley.

Anyone following the Hayne Royal Commission into the banking sector would have observed the shocking poverty of ethical, competent, honest senior leadership capability in this sector, almost in inverse proportion to the very large salaries and bonuses received. In contrast we saw much arrogance, complacency, greed and detachment from customers and their organisations as a whole.

These are the very type of men many rugby boards here considered highly desirable to lead and front their organisations. 'Consummate networkers and men of great experience in business.'

See any correlation and patterns?

 

[Aurelius]

Indeed.

Additionally I assume we have collectively noticed the ravenous appetite our typically hapless RA and State RU boards have for ex-bankers (investment and/or retail) in the senior board roles? JO'N, Hawker, Clyne, Davis, Frawley.

Anyone following the Hayne Royal Commission into the banking sector would have observed the shocking poverty of ethical, competent, honest senior leadership capability in this sector, almost in inverse proportion to the very large salaries and bonuses received. In contrast we saw much arrogance, complacency, greed and detachment from customers and their organisations as a whole.

These are the very type of men many rugby boards here considered highly desirable to lead and front their organisations. 'Consummate networkers and men of great experience in business.'

See any correlation and patterns?

Banking seemed to work perfectly well when they just held deposits, loaned money for a profit, and knocked off to the gold course early. You could almost call it an idiot-proof business model.

Then of course the idiots decided they had to reinvent the wheel to justify their huge salaries, caused all sorts of trouble for their customers and used their "consummate networking skills" to parachute into more cushy jobs where they can start the process all over again.

Suffice it to say, it's no surprise that Alan Jones is striking a chord when he writes about rugby. Whatever his faults, he's not Cameron Clyne.

 

[wamberal]

Can we assume that all you bank haters have ensured that your superannuation accounts do not hold bank shares?

 

[Aurelius]

Can we assume that all you bank haters have ensured that your superannuation accounts do not hold bank shares?

You may. SMSFs rule.

And for the record, I don't hate banks. I do, however, hate cronyism which too many bankers benefit from, including from RA.

 

[Sully]

Rugby forum guys. Keep it on subject.

 

[RedsHappy]

Can we assume that all you bank haters have ensured that your superannuation accounts do not hold bank shares?

An unjustified diversionary from the core point being raised in direct relation to Aust rugby matters (sorry Sully).

The issue is not 'bank haters'; the issue is that our RUs have derived significant components of their board leadership base from a cadre or type of senior bank business leaders that in the main have recently been exposed (under multiple rigorous oath-based discoveries) as a cadre or type as seriously deficient in their core leadership roles.

(Noting as an aside: Aust 'big 4' bank shares have fallen badly over the last 6-12 months partly as a result of the above discoveries having been made, directly or indirectly.)

 

[brokendown]

The NZRU would have a structure in place to ensure that all their young players have access to the best possible coaching and are thus prepared for whatever tournament in which they play, whether that be super rugby or U20 RWC.

RA on the other hand have no such successful structure in place - one that works that is.

The NZRU have always had good structures in place,even dating back to the late 1960's,when the then President of the NZRU was also my under 19's coach-a hands on rugby man.
he wasnt a lawyer or a banker either;just a humble newsagent

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

The bigger question is why players who have been playing in a super rugby franchise don't have the requisite skills to be successful in a restricted age competition.

Dare one suggest that they aren't learning the core skills as well as other countries.

Further evidence of the abject standard of elite coaching in Australia.

An argument could be made that the nature of the system in which they are developed could play a significant role in that. Most of our 'elite' talent emerges from a relatively small number of schools in a handful of sporting associations. While having these nurseries often offering such programs is great due to their nature being school sport and having to fit within set time periods the total number of games in which to apply and develop their skill sets are quite limited.

I'm taking this from my personal experience. Once the young blokes in the upper grades of their schools Rugby programs reach that level they tend to only play for their school. Some play outside but even then their participation can be impeded due to school commitments. Which again from my experience was more their school not wanting to risk injury from playing club footy.

Now, take my development experience. I played club Rugby often my grade and then the one above for half a game. Reps and development squad and in Year 11 and 12 my school filled in for Sydney High's 2nds in the GPS comp. I also played touch in the off season. My brother and I did our best to calculate how many games we played a year from ages 13-20. Across Rugby for club/reps and school and League for school. We averaged between 30-40 games a year. I'm not saying they should play quite this many games but the best places to learn and develop the necessary skills is in the heat of competition. I will say that it was noticeable come Colts that my ability to execute was more refined that most of the strictly schoolboy players. Same for most of the guys I had come up with through club.

 

[Quick Hands]

maybe his coaching and playing manual is the reason why we haven't got any decent coaches and our players lack basic skill execution

Dick Marks produced his coaching manual in the late 60s or early 70s. It was the one that was in use when I obtained me Level 1 (which was then part of the Rothman's National Sport Coaching programme, but I digress). It served Australian rugby well in its time and its emphasis on catch, pass and ball running are still what is required IMO. People were also actually taught to kick back in those days as well. The syallabus in the Marks coaching manual was, in short, excellent on the basic skills of the game and it's a shame that many of those things don't form enough of a part of modern coaching courses.

A couple of years back I was talking to a mate of mine whose son was in the 7s programme. He related to me how they were talking one night at dinner and son said words to the effect, "Dad you'd be surpised at how little time we spend with the ball at training"

 

[southsider]

An argument could be made that the nature of the system in which they are developed could play a significant role in that. Most of our 'elite' talent emerges from a relatively small number of schools in a handful of sporting associations. While having these nurseries often offering such programs is great due to their nature being school sport and having to fit within set time periods the total number of games in which to apply and develop their skill sets are quite limited.

I'm taking this from my personal experience. Once the young blokes in the upper grades of their schools Rugby programs reach that level they tend to only play for their school. Some play outside but even then their participation can be impeded due to school commitments. Which again from my experience was more their school not wanting to risk injury from playing club footy.

Now, take my development experience. I played club Rugby often my grade and then the one above for half a game. Reps and development squad and in Year 11 and 12 my school filled in for Sydney High's 2nds in the GPS comp. I also played touch in the off season. My brother and I did our best to calculate how many games we played a year from ages 13-20. Across Rugby for club/reps and school and League for school. We averaged between 30-40 games a year. I'm not saying they should play quite this many games but the best places to learn and develop the necessary skills is in the heat of competition. I will say that it was noticeable come Colts that my ability to execute was more refined that most of the strictly schoolboy players. Same for most of the guys I had come up with through club.

I’d agree with what you’re saying although from my experience, nearly all the footy kids bar the boarders play club and rep footy up to and including u16’s, and many tack on league as well. I think the school “barring” kids from playing is greatly overstated, I remember even our scholarship kids playing league and union rep all the way through till opens.

So taking that into account there’s only really two years where there is limited game time, albeit those two years are during a important development phase for young boys

 

[Quick Hands]

I’d agree with what you’re saying although from my experience, nearly all the footy kids bar the boarders play club and rep footy up to and including u16’s, and many tack on league as well. I think the school “barring” kids from playing is greatly overstated, I remember even our scholarship kids playing league and union rep all the way through till opens.

So taking that into account there’s only really two years where there is limited game time, albeit those two years are in during a important development phase for young boys

There's not enough unstructured scrimmage-type play with the ball IMO (either touch or tackle). It makes boys think on their feet and react to a mulitude of different situations (at speed), rather than endless repetition of mind-numbing drills which coach such thinking skills out of young players.