Australian Rugby / RA

[Joe Blow]

We need to realise that the game is poisoned in Australia. Our players go to NZ or Europe or even SA and return much better, but they do not stay that way for long. Ditto with our coaches.
Ireland, Wales and England are all going into next years RWC as genuine contenders with foreign coaches. You could also throw Scotland into the mix.
We need to look at getting not only foreign coaches but also experienced foreign administrators to turn around the game here from both ends if we wish to have rugby remain a legit winter sport and our national side anywhere near the top tier.
Crap, even our administrators go offshore and are wildly successful. Look at Nucifora. He was more or less discarded by Oz rugby or at the very least was not highly regarded.
Our rugby infrastructure is badly broken here in Oz and needs to be completely restructured. The only area where we are successful is in the woman’s game which the old school admin types intentionally stand back from and ignore. How lucky are the woman!

 

[Rebelsfan]

'Dysfunctional': O'Neill urges radical overhaul of Wallabies coaching set-up:

in part

"
Frank Farina was sacked as Socceroos coach in 2005, three months out from the start of World Cup qualifiers after Australia failed to win a game at the Confederations Cup.
It was a bold call at the time but signing Guus Hiddink on a short-term deal, with enticing incentive clauses in his contract, proved a masterstroke as the Socceroos not only qualified for their first World Cup since 1974 but also got out of the group stages to make the round of 16.
At the time, O'Neill said: "We did not spent a lot of time debating. We saw that it was the right decision.""

 

[Quick Hands]

Anyway you know we running out of rugby discussion when anyone is finding it so hard to talk about that they would even hint that Alan Jones could or should be near the Wallabies in a coaching set up! Must be the off season!

It's a bit of a odd discussion because, leaving out any issues of popularity and ability, the man is 73 years old and has serious back problems. He himself would acknowledge that every if the spirit was willing, his body wouldn't be able to stand it.

 

[Quick Hands]

'Dysfunctional': O'Neill urges radical overhaul of Wallabies coaching set-up:

in part

"
Frank Farina was sacked as Socceroos coach in 2005, three months out from the start of World Cup qualifiers after Australia failed to win a game at the Confederations Cup.
It was a bold call at the time but signing Guus Hiddink on a short-term deal, with enticing incentive clauses in his contract, proved a masterstroke as the Socceroos not only qualified for their first World Cup since 1974 but also got out of the group stages to make the round of 16.
At the time, O'Neill said: "We did not spent a lot of time debating. We saw that it was the right decision.""

Talking as someone who's been a consistent Cheika supporter before he was even signed by the Waratahs, I'll make a couple of points:

1. He was appointed Wallaby coach before his time ( a point I made strongly at the time, so this is not some 20/20 hidsight revisionism). 2014 was the time to appoint Jake White or Eddie Jones or Scott Johnston etc. (not saying that it shouldn't be done now, but we've essentially wasted 4 years and burnt someone who post RWC 2019 would have been the logical successor)

2. It's now reached the point where his position is untenable. And the bizarre idea that the assistants should be sacked, while Cheika who has had complete control of appointments of assistants, support staff, team selections, training camps and every other aspect of the Wallaby set up, while Cheika stays on is so lacking in logic it defies belief.

I've long advocated keeping him until after RWC 2019, but I think it's reached the point where RA need to hit the eject button. Alas, as we've seen, they aren't even capable of holding a telephone conversation with a prospective replacement, so once again I make the point that it's the administration which sets the context and circumstances for the game to either prosper or decline. And they seem incapable of fulfilling the role in a way in which makes the game prosper.

 

[liquor box]

I dont know if a coach, any coach who has been out of the game along time can step back in and be successful.

I think that an old coach may rely on what they knew years ago, passing, catching and retaining possession is important to success in rugby. This never changes but for some reason we do not possess many of these basic skills and we kick away possession.

An old coach would not have any new allegiances that they need to keep so they may also select the correct player for the correct position based on who is best for the job, something that also appears to be missing.

I dont care who is coach, but just want a team that is selected correctly and that have at least basic skills.

 

[formerflanker]

Anyway you know we running out of rugby discussion when anyone is finding it so hard to talk about that they would even hint that Alan Jones could or should be near the Wallabies in a coaching set up! Must be the off season!

Jones does list some likely candidates who should be consulted:
If Australian rugby is to be saved from a quagmire of mediocrity, they are going to have to call on people who have had success in the game. I am certainly not advocating for myself. But there are many people who have had success in the game who are ignored.
Simon Poiedivin
Mark Ella
Rod Macqueen
Dick Marks

(from The Australian)

 

[Slim 293]

Slim, "universally despised" is wrong.
On radio, he has been number one for decades so many listeners don't despise him.
Rugby-wise, he was given a lot of credit for turning Manly into a premiership winning team. A Grand Slam and Bledisloe Cup winning coach, many respect his achievements.
He may be derided but not "universally despised".

His “listeners” make up a small demographic of the population.........

Such as Beryl from the shire, who believes the kids are out of control and has only ever seen brown people on the evening news, but lives in total fear of them, and is convinced global warming is a hoax perpetrated by the global elite.........

 

[gel]

His “listeners” make up a small demographic of the population...

Such as Beryl from the shire, who believes the kids are out of control and has only ever seen brown people on the evening news, but lives in total fear of them, and is convinced global warming is a hoax perpetrated by the global elite...

That's a small number of his listeners, because that's a small number of people. Most of the people who tune in are the morons tuning in to get outraged and to take offense on behalf of other people who don't give a shit.

For the logical and sound of mind, Alan Jones'radio show is an irrelevance.

If you disagree with me you can organise a march on federation square to raise awareness of how wrong I am, and I'll pay just as much attention to that march as I do to Alan Jones.

 

[wamberal]

He is almost universally despised. Not quite, but almost.

 

[RugbyReg]

Jones does list some likely candidates who should be consulted:
If Australian rugby is to be saved from a quagmire of mediocrity, they are going to have to call on people who have had success in the game. I am certainly not advocating for myself. But there are many people who have had success in the game who are ignored.
Simon Poiedivin
Mark Ella
Rod Macqueen
Dick Marks

(from The Australian)

I don’t believe Poido has ever coached. I can’t remember the last time Mark Ella coached. Dick Marks is as smart as they come but would not cope as a head coach these days.

And you speak to some of the Wallabies who played under McQueen and they will say he was the worst coach they played under.

 

[wamberal]

Macqueen certainly made a mess of his time at the Rebels. Some terrible selections and other decisions.


Otherwise, I agree, Reg, there is nothing to see here that is in any way a possibly way forward. (That said, I do recall that Dick Marks was given the job, many years ago, of producing a standard coaching and playing manual for Australian rugby. Maybe he could update that?)

 

[formerflanker]

I don’t believe Poido has ever coached. I can’t remember the last time Mark Ella coached. Dick Marks is as smart as they come but would not cope as a head coach these days.

And you speak to some of the Wallabies who played under McQueen and they will say he was the worst coach they played under.

Sorry, didn't make myself clear.
Jones is advocating for those people to be consulted about coaching appointments and other initiatives to improve Australian rugby. He wasn't suggesting that they actually coach the Wallabies.

 

[Slim 293]

I’ve read some of Mark Ella’s articles, and he’s got his own fill of hot air.........

 

[formerflanker]

And you speak to some of the Wallabies who played under McQueen and they will say he was the worst coach they played under.

1999 RWC final, Cardiff.
Australia 35 France 12
Coach - R. McQueen

 

[kiap]

"Frank Farina was sacked as Socceroos coach in 2005, three months out from the start of World Cup qualifiers after Australia failed to win a game at the Confederations Cup.
It was a bold call at the time but signing Guus Hiddink on a short-term deal, with enticing incentive clauses in his contract, proved a masterstroke as the Socceroos not only qualified for their first World Cup since 1974 but also got out of the group stages to make the round of 16.
At the time, O'Neill said: "We did not spent a lot of time debating. We saw that it was the right decision."

JON led a lot of the short-termism that ended up damaging the game. I don't want to see him back in rugby.

He's on the money here, though. The cost of keeping Cheika will be higher than punting him.

Having mentioned O'Neill, rugby and money together I now need to go wash my hands.

I don’t believe Poido has ever coached. I can’t remember the last time Mark Ella coached. Dick Marks is as smart as they come but would not cope as a head coach these days.

Not to say that Jones parroting that list of names added much … bugger all, really … but he was comparing them to Whittaker, Clyne, Castle and Kafer.

Kafer has some experience of success at the top levels of rugby to bring, dunno about the others.

And you speak to some of the Wallabies who played under McQueen and they will say he was the worst coach they played under.

Who was the best?

 

[Derpus]

This is all pretty amusing.

Our best idea to save Australian rugby is to get some retiree in charge.

 

[Quick Hands]

The most amusing thing today is the appearance of the ghost of Christmas past, aka JON talking of dysfunction. The same JON who instituted the top down model which is responsible for the current state of the game, including the dysfunction.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

This is all pretty terrifying.

Our best idea to save Australian rugby is to get some retiree in charge.

Fixed it for you. The fact that some are actually suggesting the likes of Jones just show's the lack of vision that haunts the game in this country.

 

[kiap]

I’ve read some of Mark Ella’s articles, and he’s got his own fill of hot air...

A lot of the time, yeah. The occasional good piece against all those pulped trees.

When just talking or even being interviewed about rugby, though, he does seem to come across better, IMO.

It's a funny thing.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Macqueen certainly made a mess of his time at the Rebels. Some terrible selections and other decisions.


Otherwise, I agree, Reg, there is nothing to see here that is in any way a possibly way forward. (That said, I do recall that Dick Marks was given the job, many years ago, of producing a standard coaching and playing manual for Australian rugby. Maybe he could update that?)

If you believe the rumours, Marks was sacked and replaced by Alec Evans on the orders of Leo Williams (JON pulled the trigger) because he wouldn't update the manual as directed around a decade ago