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Australian Rugby / RA

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
That needs to be reffed properly though, the super refs have been very very lax in rewarding scrum dominance this year so far.
I think they've been much better with the current interpretation - they need to see the whole front row progressing, not just one side winning out where it might be reversed on the opposite side. Also telling teams the ball is available and to play on when they try and really milk penalties has helped.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Wilson, what's the sanction for a partially dominant scrum (those that only move forward on one side)? If it's a penalty to the weaker scrum, then isn't that unwarranted reward to that weaker scrum? Or is it simply a reset scrum with the feed remaining with the side who fed the original scrum?
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Wilson, what's the sanction for a partially dominant scrum (those that only move forward on one side)? If it's a penalty to the weaker scrum, then isn't that unwarranted reward to that weaker scrum? Or is it simply a reset scrum with the feed remaining with the side who fed the original scrum?
A lot of the refs have simply been making the team with the ball at the back play on.
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
A lot of the refs have simply been making the team with the ball at the back play on.
Yeah, mostly play on unless the ball is trapped, then sometimes resets. There is still plenty of room for the refs interpretation there and some have gone penalties to that leading side and occasionally against it when the dominant prop tries to press his advantage too far.

Just to be clear because my original post was a bit ambiguous "the whole front row progressing" is more "none of the front row retreating". In practice that might just be a loosehead holding their end up while a tight head dominates, but that loosehead needs to not cede ground.
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
The overall penalty/use it situation I'm somewhat comfortable with, it's more there have been a number of games where individual front rowers should have been put in the bin for their own safety, and I think test season will come back to beat super rugby players on the bum if this is what to expect.
 

KevinO

Geoff Shaw (53)
You only get to do that once though, all the free-kick infringements at scrum time turn into a penalty on the 2nd occurrence.
Yes, at the moment you only get to do that once, but the rule change is suggesting that free kick can not be another scrum. So you would do it to get out of that situation and make the team tap and go.
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
Yes, at the moment you only get to do that once, but the rule change is suggesting that free kick can not be another scrum. So you would do it to get out of that situation and make the team tap and go.
My point was you only get it once per game. Free kick infringements at a scrum escalate to penalties the next time you do them anywhere in a game, not just in a series of scrum resets.
 

SouthernX

John Thornett (49)
The A-League is facing extinction, from what I can glean.

I doubt that… they’ve got a new expansion team incoming. 2nd New Zealand outfit.

I think you might be mistakening it with the APL? i think this is the second division of ALeague and some of the clubs that are currently struggling.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
I doubt that… they’ve got a new expansion team incoming. 2nd New Zealand outfit.

I think you might be mistakening it with the APL? i think this is the second division of ALeague and some of the clubs that are currently struggling.

Newcastle seem to be on fairly tenuous ground with rumours of them being relocated and they've come out and said they can't guarantee Canberra's place in the comp. There distribution to clubs has been decreasing season on season. The league won't collapse but Super Rugby isn't the only competition that might lose a team in the next several weeks.
 

Strewthcobber

Simon Poidevin (60)
Sounds like, with Newcastle (UK) cutting 20 players this week, Super Rugby may not even be the only rugby comp losing a team in the next couple of weeks.

The sports world looks a lot different with 4.5% interest than it does with 0% interest rates
 

oztimmay

Tony Shaw (54)
Staff member
Also saw there is a Saudi money deal in the works for Newscastle, so might not be all that bad for them.
 

Highlander35

Steve Williams (59)
TBH Radwan is the only Falcons player that it truly genuinely matters that you retain. The rest of the squad is very journeyman/youth.
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
Also saw there is a Saudi money deal in the works for Newscastle, so might not be all that bad for them.
They're desperate for it, but I think it's a long way from being in the works:
Newcastle’s director of rugby, Steve Diamond, says the club are definitely keen to attract fresh investment from Middle Eastern backers but suggests there is no imminent prospect of a deal materialising.
...
Diamond, who has taken charge with Newcastle still winless after 12 matches, is preparing for a squad shakeup but is not anticipating an instant cash windfall after the club’s chairman, Semore Kurdi, travelled to Saudi Arabia for talks. “I don’t think there’s potential investment at the minute,” said Diamond. “Semore and Matt Thompson went out and met all the rugby union dignitaries in Saudi Arabia. I don’t think for a minute they’re expecting us to put a game on before the Tyson Fury fight in May but they want to investigate how we can help them and reciprocate if there is any potential investment.

It's certainly not off the table but they've got a long way to go before anything is signed.
 

Wallaby Man

Nev Cottrell (35)
Tbh I think the bigger issue is French and Japanese clubs spending money they do have
The Japanese clubs don’t earn much money, they are just propped up by rich companies. Many of these teams have fallen apart in recent years because the business decides it won’t keep making a loss in the rugby department because it brings little in.

The French clubs as well are only propped up by rich benefactors, the old Toulon owner famously got out of Toulon because he said you can no longer be worth millions to run the club you have to be worth billions. The French league makes considerably less revenue than NRL teams do.

The French league has jumped to billionaires, unfortunately the English league is stuck with millionaires. Hence trailing behind. Plus losses mean nothing if it greases the wheels of other businesses with wining and dining clients, having your name out in public etc.

I have now come full circle and no longer believe we can remotely compete, so now I cheer on the leagues in Europe to go massive and be at a stage like football where transfer fees are openly paid for players in contract. If rugby was at that level, we would never be talking about losing a club as the Rebels would be able to sell a bunch of players to the highest bidder and remain. But we aren’t at the stage. We need 2/3 comps at a minimum earning considerably more than they do now to generate this type of money.
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
You got a point, but alas I came to the conclusion about 2 or 3 years ago to many people have their heads in the trough and earn a good living out of the existing system.

Radical change would see most out of a job. Maybe they can hang on to retirement or build a nice nest egg and get a good position on their CV.

What is so so so so so incredibly frustrating is the answer is all around us in Australia, and world over similar models work, its works in Europe, it works in the Americas, it works in Asia, it works across Africa.

You and I have often posted on the need for a NDC.

The key to what the new F1 [former AFL] guy said for me was, what worked in the pass will not work in the future and you need to continuedly update, change and adopt. Rugby in Australia has always fallen back to what worked in the past,.

Anyway, I posted I some time ago, we had passed the point where we can stop the fall. IMO as I originally posted roughly 10 months ago is we need Super Rugby today, as its the only revenue source we have that can fund the development of a NDC. But I think the powers have no intention of doing this, they simply hope it turns around.

The often not talked about in discussion pertaining to rugby, as most centres around national and Super Rugby teams performance is hhhhmmmm gggrrrr big call by me but the near elimination of Rugby heartland areas. My oldest son lives in Eastlakes and when we go visit its obvious the galloping greens nor Tha's have nowhere near the influence they once had and that the Swans and Easts, and Souths do. Equally in Epping / Eastwood / Ryde / Beecroft, yes a population demographic change but as a rugby heartland tis no more.

Over reliance on GPS schools, which themselves are under pressure to maintain Rugby at its current status for junior development, adds further to the stress. The fading of Rugby heartland areas further decreases GPS schools ability to find high quality players, and maintain Rugby at its current status.

Whereas once Rugby players were the pick of the crop in the Epping/ Eastwood area, they struggle today at junior level for players and often get the players rejected by other codes.

Hog, many many many many moons ago, I was working in NZ for an Australia / US corporation, we where losing money. Over comes this old hard head from Australia to help, he took me the lunch the first day he arrived, and set out his plan. His first and only lesson was you need to ask the right question, and identify the cause before you can fix things, because if you ask the wrong question you will won't get to the real problem. For years almost everybody on this site blamed not being on FTA as the big problem. Whereas the big problem was the competition structure, and the make up of those in charge of the competition structure.

We have spent years stressing, over the lack of coverage, when compared to all other codes besides League and AFL we got heaps of coverage and media. The issue was always the structure and if we changed the structure and those running lets say a NDC, then those people running the NDC would have got us on FTA anyway.

Anyway another day in the mad house.

For some on the forum [who for years argued against a NDC] .... Football, Football, Football, Football, Football, should make you happy now.
FTA was maybe a past problem but I personally don’t believe it. Fans weren’t lost cause you had to pay for it, fans were lost cause the grass roots were neglected under the strategy that a winning wallabies is what we need and there is an element of truth there. Fans will get behind the wallabies if they are winning but that doesn’t necessarily translate to the rebels and tahs and if clubs aren’t funded then it’s not easy for a kid to go play and build a life long connection. You’re left w fleeting connections tied to wallabies success which can never be permanent.
Look at media now. Overwhelmingly going to 100% not free to air via streaming platforms.
Should have Stan, Amazon, Kayo etc all bidding and they will bid increasingly based off streaming.
I would love super to be on Kayo so I can have one sports app. Stan less attractive now!
I think rugby is in real real trouble. Can’t compete financially cause we’ve wasted so much money. I’m told JS is basically all benefactor money however.
Talking to a friend who is hard on afl - he said he reckons if the rebels actually won they would get 20k plus a game and be successful but they continue to be just shit. I agree to be honest. Fans have gotten tired of 10 years of failure and don’t turn out now. You’ve got got like 10 other teams to choose from in Melbourne who might be winners.
How does rugby compete w league now on wages? With France and Japan? Perese leaving shows you that the lions tour isn’t the draw some think it is. $$$ is big enough up north that it’s the draw.
You tell me I can make $400k in aus or $800k elsewhere doing the same thing - most are choosing elsewhere for at least a few years.
 

Sir Arthur Higgins

Dick Tooth (41)
Japan league is a political decision away from not existing. Clubs basically required to fund community based things and loophole is rugby clubs that they fund.
tv rights aren’t much. Attendance is low. If the government regulates the community component more, good bye to that league.
France seems to be the likely tier 1 market. Seems inevitable to me that uk league includes England strongest, welsh, Scotland, Ireland and an Italian team.
 

WorkingClassRugger

Michael Lynagh (62)
Japan league is a political decision away from not existing. Clubs basically required to fund community based things and loophole is rugby clubs that they fund.
tv rights aren’t much. Attendance is low. If the government regulates the community component more, good bye to that league.
France seems to be the likely tier 1 market. Seems inevitable to me that uk league includes England strongest, welsh, Scotland, Ireland and an Italian team.

JRLO averaging a little under 10k this season. Up 56% on last season so far.
 
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