Australian Rugby / RA

[hoggy]

I have some faith that the current admin/high performance etc have been horrified at the depth of the failure and there is nowhere to hide. The only solution is to build new bits that are fit for purpose and not throw out stuff that's currently working. Not easy but not impossible either.

I agree they need to build new bits that are fit for purpose. That is a domestic competition with enough Teams/Content to cover Australia to at least start to compete with the NRL/AFL and probably the A league into the future.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Seriously, the sleeping giant of America, Argentina wtf, that will get them flocking back to Waratah games.

Those administrators may be horrified about the current set up, but they have all been around watching with a birds eye view as the whole thing slowly turned to shit, the question is why did they not do anything then and have they really done anything now????

 

[stillmissit]

I agree they need to build new bits that are fit for purpose. That is a domestic competition with enough Teams/Content to cover Australia to at least start to compete with the NRL/AFL and probably the A league into the future.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Seriously, the sleeping giant of America, Argentina wtf, that will get them flocking back to Waratah games.

Those administrators may be horrified about the current set up, but they have all been around watching with a birds eye view as the whole thing slowly turned to shit, the question is why did they not do anything then and have they really done anything now????

An interesting article Hoggy, with some facts and a fair bit of guestimation. Phil Waugh and Daniel Herbert, along with Horne and Nucifora make a good base to build on. I understand your argument re Waugh but he was a committee member and had only a vote.
McLennan said this about him:
"So he is very performance driven. And we've seen that in his business career and the board and I took a lot of comfort from the fact that he's been there during the hard yards over the last two and a half years. And so when I look at my interactions with Phil, we've had the healthy debates and disagreements on a range of issues.

"But we've always ended up in a better place and I think the board recognises that too. And they've taken a lot of comfort from his insights around the game and how we can drive it harder."

 

[dru]

I agree they need to build new bits that are fit for purpose. That is a domestic competition with enough Teams/Content to cover Australia to at least start to compete with the NRL/AFL and probably the A league into the future.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Seriously, the sleeping giant of America, Argentina wtf, that will get them flocking back to Waratah games.

Those administrators may be horrified about the current set up, but they have all been around watching with a birds eye view as the whole thing slowly turned to shit, the question is why did they not do anything then and have they really done anything now????

God help me. That Kiwi article describing a future for Super Rugby is completely not what is needed here. The concept was unsustainable with Argentina, South Africa and Japan. Now they look to all of that (without the top tier of South Africa) plus Hawaii and the USA.

We really need to depart this madness. No that's not right. We need to develop a Domestic Professional Comp that is primary. I'm cool with some form of rep rugby between that and International. But the process of getting there needs to be suitable.

Question proposed in the article: How many teams can Australia sustain? Ultimately, it will be a decision for Rugby Australia.
Answer for the format proposed: None.

 

[Derpus]

God help me. That Kiwi article describing a future for Super Rugby is completely not what is needed here. The concept was unsustainable with Argentina, South Africa and Japan. Now they look to all of that (without the top tier of South Africa) plus Hawaii and the USA.

We really need to depart this madness. No that's not right. We need to develop a Domestic Professional Comp that is primary. I'm cool with some form of rep rugby between that and International. But the process of getting there needs to be suitable.

Question proposed in the article: How many teams can Australia sustain? Ultimately, it will be a decision for Rugby Australia.
Answer for the format proposed: None.

Its because NZ can't sustain the comp alone. This has always been the paradigm - NZ is the bigger brother in this sport and they demand a multi-national comp. Aus on the other hand is very insular from a sporting perspective and realistically needs a domestic comp.

A doomed union.

 

[Wilson]

Rest of the article aside, I do like this as an option for a first pass at a cross over competition:

How Japan fits in​

The chances of the Sunwolves’ second coming are slim to non-existent. The big corporations that fund the teams in the Japan Rugby League One competition don’t want to be part of Super Rugby.
What they want is a cross-border competition at the end of the respective seasons to promote their brands (Panasonic, Toshiba etc), and the Chiefs and Blues are testing the waters with exhibition fixtures against the top Japanese sides next February.
It’s unlikely that a full cross-border competition will be set up in the short term, but Stuff understands that one idea is doing the rounds: an eventual switch to a top six finals series in Super Rugby, with the next six on the ladder playing the top six in Japan in the same three-week window as the Super Rugby finals.
Would the Japanese go for it?

In time I think the ideal would still be a more complete pre or post season competition including the top teams, but as a way to get more knockout, pressure rugby for all the sides, while preserving/improving the credibility of the Super Rugby finals it looks like a good option. It'd then be a great opportunity to see where the Japanese sides measured up against super sides as a stepping stone to that full crossover comp.

That style of crossover competition (somewhat like the European Rugby Champions Cup) is probably the best avenue for any expansion in the Americas and South Africa in the future too. Potentially super rugby can then devolve into a collection of more directly domestic competitions with a really significant international crossover competition paired with it.

 

[Dan54]

I have some faith that the current admin/high performance etc have been horrified at the depth of the failure and there is nowhere to hide. The only solution is to build new bits that are fit for purpose and not throw out stuff that's currently working. Not easy but not impossible either.

True mate, as I say even from here in NZ I feel the trend is in right direction, and seems to be genreal feeling of a few rugby mates.

 

[Dan54]

Its because NZ can't sustain the comp alone. This has always been the paradigm - NZ is the bigger brother in this sport and they demand a multi-national comp. Aus on the other hand is very insular from a sporting perspective and realistically needs a domestic comp.

A doomed union.

How do they demand an international comp? I also think Aus could do with a domestic comp below super, but apparently the vast majority of people who actually are in the realistic position of having to run the game in Aus seem to be of the opinion that they also need an international comp. Unless the states/clubs etc have all been keeping it secret. And Aus can't substain the comp alone either, or it's not an international comp.

 

[Derpus]

How do they demand an international comp? I also think Aus could do with a domestic comp below super, but apparently the vast majority of people who actually are in the realistic position of having to run the game in Aus seem to be of the opinion that they also need an international comp. Unless the states/clubs etc have all been keeping it secret. And Aus can't substain the comp alone either, or it's not an international comp.

The vast majority of the people in charge of rugby in Australia have proven to be wholly incompetent. Not sure how much weight we should be giving their opinions.

I say we need a domestic comp purely from a selfish perspective. Its what I as a fan would want (and seems to be what most fans want) and what most Australian sporting fans seem to enjoy.

But what the fuck would fans know about what they want?

 

[Pfitzy]

Fans know what they want. Just that it is usually about 250 different things across the base.

The challenges of high performance rugby are a different matter. There are a few ways to skin a cat, and not everyone here has exposure to how it is done.

Get good people in the room and use the Bruce Lee method.

 

[hoggy]

but apparently the vast majority of people who actually are in the realistic position of having to run the game in Aus seem to be of the opinion that they also need an international comp.

Those same people running the game that have us about $120 million in debt and a code struggling to remain even relevant in Australia, at the same time they have all been paid quite well for there services. As Derpus says not sure how much weight those opinions should be given.

 

[Derpus]

Fans know what they want. Just that it is usually about 250 different things across the base.

The challenges of high performance rugby are a different matter. There are a few ways to skin a cat, and not everyone here has exposure to how it is done.

Get good people in the room and use the Bruce Lee method.

View attachment 18055

I have no clue how you build a competitive test side. But I suspect the sport being watched and enjoyed probably factors in somewhere.

Can't say I'm particularly excited to see the Crusaders prolonged coronation ceremony again.

 

[ForceFan]

Please, let's NOT return to the time of regular travel across the Pacific or Indian Oceans to play rugby. It's an expensive, pointless pursuit.
We need to get more games - outside of Test matches to keep our players busy and rugby in front of fans - at all levels.

The time is probably right to move Super Rugby to a more time-zone GRR-type structure, not a return to the madness of a global competition.

Argentina needs to align with the Americas (USA, Canada and other Sth Am countries) to grow the game.
Sth Africa with Europe - which has already happened.

The professional game needs to split Australia and New Zealand teams on 2 time zone based (East & West) conferences which include Japan, the Pacific and progressive growth of the game in Asia with an end-of-season play-off amongst the top 4 (2 from each conference in a showcase of the best).

The season needs to be lengthened with an Australian competition (a new NRC with more teams and bridging across the professional and semi-professionals) in much the same way as the existing Pacific competition and NZ has the NPC.

None of this can occur without the approval of World Rugby and the member unions including RAu as well as new funding models (which are likely to be different for all countries as one size is not going to fit all).

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

I agree they need to build new bits that are fit for purpose. That is a domestic competition with enough Teams/Content to cover Australia to at least start to compete with the NRL/AFL and probably the A league into the future.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Seriously, the sleeping giant of America, Argentina wtf, that will get them flocking back to Waratah games.

Those administrators may be horrified about the current set up, but they have all been around watching with a birds eye view as the whole thing slowly turned to shit, the question is why did they not do anything then and have they really done anything now????

Yeah. I read it when it was published and couldn't be bothered reposting it here it was so totalling devoid of originality or imagine. I genuinely hope hope it's just a journalist talking out of his arse because if there's any truth to any of this thinking no amount of faith as Dan54 would like to call for will save it.

 

[Derpus]

Yeah. I read it when it was published and couldn't be bothered reposting it here it was so totalling devoid of originality or imagine. I genuinely hope hope it's just a journalist talking out of his arse because if there's any truth to any of this thinking no amount of faith as Dan54 would like to call for will save it.

Its kind of crazy to me people still think it can be saved.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

Its kind of crazy to me people still think it can be saved.

What's crazier is if that article is to be believed the way they think it will be saved is by doing more of the same rubbish as in the past.

 

[Highlander35]

What's crazier is if that article is to be believed the way they think it will be saved is by doing more of the same rubbish as in the past.

 

[Dan54]

904

Those same people running the game that have us about $120 million in debt and a code struggling to remain even relevant in Australia, at the same time they have all been paid quite well for there services. As Derpus says not sure how much weight those opinions should be given.

Yep and as pointed out in earlier post, part of the answer is in yours and Derpus' hands. Go and get involved! The game is only run as well as the particapants on all levels allow it to be.
And that is posted with all due respect to your opinions, but posting them on here and not doing something about them in real life is just pointless to the extreme. As PFitzy says, fans don't really know what they want. Even the few posters on here don't seem to all be on same page.

 

[wamberal99]

All rugby fans want the same thing. We all want our team to win, at club, provincial, and national level.

On reflection, maybe that's part of the problem.

 

[stillmissit]

904

Yep and as pointed out in earlier post, part of the answer is in yours and Derpus' hands. Go and get involved! The game is only run as well as the particapants on all levels allow it to be.
And that is posted with all due respect to your opinions, but posting them on here and not doing something about them in real life is just pointless to the extreme. As PFitzy says, fans don't really know what they want. Even the few posters on here don't seem to all be on same page.

We are too human Dan and although we love to agree, we also carry many different opinions which counteract the desire to agree.
That's where leadership comes in.

 

[Pfitzy]

Can't say I'm particularly excited to see the Crusaders prolonged coronation ceremony again.

Nobody is.

The option for our Super sides to play each other 2-3 times per year is less appealing to me.

Something new in terms of a domestic club comp is a nice idea but requires a lot more work and is no guarantee of improvement.