Australian Rugby / RA

[Wilson]

Not too surprisingly there's a new article in the Canberra Times about the Brumbies opposing centralization:

'We're fighting for Canberra': Brumbies break silence on centralisation plan

The Brumbies are actively fighting Rugby Australia's plan.

www.canberratimes.com.au

As much as we need to move forward on a centralised approach it's not hard to see why a side wouldn't want to hand over the keys to RA as it currently stands. It'll be interesting to see if the other teams come out more vocally for or against now.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Goog made a good point in the post match about too many boards and how little gets down to the dirt.

Rugby needs a boss. Follow it or fuck off.

Love him or hate him Pony Boy makes calls and Rugba League follow.

 

[Viking]

So that I get this right...

Under your model, we:
- Create 2 new franchises from the ground.
- Forgo all NZ funding.
- Spread our already thin playing stocks across 7 teams.
- Spread our already thin coaching stocks across 7 teams.
- Pay our top players less money.
- Reduce the quality of our opposition.
- Compete for NRL/AFL viewership without the lure of AB players.

Why not have:
- 3 super teams that play in Super Rugby Pacifika (5 NZ, Drua, Moana)
- Concentrate our talent. Invest in acadamies that actually develop the talent we have.
- Continue to expose our top players to high-quality rugby.
- Monies saved from not running the Force and Rebels be invested into a national club comp.

"concentrate our talent" why do you think this will help? They will still lose.

Look at the Rebels when the Force got the flick and they basically had the pick of all the force players (and coaches). Well the Rebels were still shit.

The reality is the Crusaders beat the current wallabies team, with ease.

 

[Bullrush]

Apart from Fiji, are there any other countries in the Top 10 world ranking who don't have teams participating in professional competitions outside their own player base?

I really just don't see how taking the current Wallabies, spreading them out over 7-10 teams in Australia, to play against players who aren't good enough to be Wallabies, improves your professional player stock.

 

[Derpus]

Apart from Fiji, are there any other countries in the Top 10 world ranking who don't have teams participating in professional competitions outside their own player base?

I really just don't see how taking the current Wallabies, spreading them out over 7-10 teams in Australia, to play against players who aren't good enough to be Wallabies, improves your professional player stock.

I refuse to be dragged into this whole conversation again so I'm just gunna say it once.

To improve our player stock we need to have actual interest in the game. Interest is the root source of everything - participation, viewership, money, etc.

Super Rugby is antithetical to interest. Any solution that involves Super Rugby isn't one.

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

I refuse to be dragged into this whole conversation again so I'm just gunna say it once.

To improve our player stock we need to have actual interest in the game. Interest is the root source of everything - participation, viewership, money, etc.

Super Rugby is antithetical to interest. Any solution that involves Super Rugby isn't one.

Do you think Super Rugby would be a good product if the Australian sides were competitive?

 

[Derpus]

Do you think Super Rugby would be a good product if the Australian sides were competitive?

No. Australian Rugby sides were competitive from the mid 2000's to the mid 2010's and interest plummeted.

 

[Bullrush]

I refuse to be dragged into this whole conversation again so I'm just gunna say it once.

To improve our player stock we need to have actual interest in the game. Interest is the root source of everything - participation, viewership, money, etc.

Super Rugby Losing is antithetical to interest. Any solution that involves Super Rugby a lot of losing isn't one.

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Can you even get 25,000 to the Reds v Tahs anymore?

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Wouldn’t the solution to more games be more games in super rugby.
Go back to home and away with everyone. I.e 24 rounds which is another 10 games.
the problem before was South Africa and Argentina time zones.
All the time zones are fine now. So play more games.
Expand squads so there is some rotation.
Joining with the Japanese league will do nothing. Think the average viewers gets excited about NSW v Honda/Mitsubishi…. Forget it.
They need to build interest in the comp as it is. More meaningful games - get some Anzac tradition going - NSW v Auckland, ACT V Wellington, Queensland vs Canterbury, Melbourne v highlanders or Chiefs. That week Fiji play pasifika. Those guys play each other that week every year. Work to actually build rivalries.
Maybe if you drop the force or the rebels you make up for it with expanded squads in this format.

 

[Derpus]

@Bullrush I think you are wrong. I think the decline in viewership that coincided with some really great Reds, Brumbies and Waratah sides demonstrates as much.

But even if you are right. How does staying in Super Rugby and losing to Kiwi sides every week help?

And yes, I get it: 'Cut two teams and you'll be competitive'. No, we simply won't be. We'll be equally as shit with even less fans, even less revenue and fewer professional contracts.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

No. Australian Rugby sides were competitive from the mid 2000's to the mid 2010's and interest plummeted.

I think that was due to the rampant expansion and South Africa.
Horrible time zones there. More competition made that even less palatable than before.
then add japan and Argentina….
Also bad time zones….
Aus expansion hurt too.

 

[Goosestep]

Wouldn’t the solution to more games be more games in super rugby.
Go back to home and away with everyone. I.e 24 rounds which is another 10 games.
the problem before was South Africa and Argentina time zones.
All the time zones are fine now. So play more games.
Expand squads so there is some rotation.
Joining with the Japanese league will do nothing. Think the average viewers gets excited about NSW v Honda/Mitsubishi…. Forget it.
They need to build interest in the comp as it is. More meaningful games - get some Anzac tradition going - NSW v Auckland, ACT V Wellington, Queensland vs Canterbury, Melbourne v highlanders or Chiefs. That week Fiji play pasifika. Those guys play each other that week every year. Work to actually build rivalries.
Maybe if you drop the force or the rebels you make up for it with expanded squads in this format.

maybe move games to a Monday Wednesday Thursday night … to carve out their own space and not be directly competing with league …

a league did this by starting the comp in spring, and therefore not having as much competition for eyeballs

 

[The Ghost of Raelene]

Wouldn’t the solution to more games be more games in super rugby.
Go back to home and away with everyone. I.e 24 rounds which is another 10 games.
the problem before was South Africa and Argentina time zones.
All the time zones are fine now. So play more games.
Expand squads so there is some rotation.
Joining with the Japanese league will do nothing. Think the average viewers gets excited about NSW v Honda/Mitsubishi…. Forget it.
They need to build interest in the comp as it is. More meaningful games - get some Anzac tradition going - NSW v Auckland, ACT V Wellington, Queensland vs Canterbury, Melbourne v highlanders or Chiefs. That week Fiji play pasifika. Those guys play each other that week every year. Work to actually build rivalries.
Maybe if you drop the force or the rebels you make up for it with expanded squads in this format.

That probably is the simplest and quickest solution.

I’d add a Super Rugby A comp to run post Club season. Can be 1 round but keeps them playing and a place for internationals to rehab if necessary.

 

[Wallaby Man]

I mean, in theory, the NRC is/was a great concept. It was the perfect opportunity to supplement the Super Rugby season with some decent-quality rugby.

It comes back to the tyranny of distance. How good would it be to have a competition with Super Rugby and the Japanese Top League sides?

I mean one suggestion would be to run an NRC-style competition alongside the NPC in NZ but at the start of the year (Feb-Jun). Then you could run Super Rugby off the back of it. That way your top-line players would be getting some decent minutes. Whether you would have 5 Aussie sides I'm not sure. The only problem here is you'd nuke club rugby in Brisbane and Sydney.

I personally don’t think the NRC is the solution either. It’s half baked and short term. I want full time pros against full time pros. Programs where the opposition as done hours or video work understanding xyz steps off his right, or more importantly will square his shoulders when deciding to kick, therefore player xyz will run to outside shoulder to disrupt, etc. really work on our player frailties, figure out how to kick under pressure with extremely well drilled defenders. It has to be pro or go home as far as I’m concerned.

As for QPrem SS, they will continue to operate as they do during the Super Rugby season. They don’t need pros there to be a good comp. It’s good for the club to have them return but it’s not maximizing the development of the player, which at the end of the day is what they should be about. Providing environments that are best for the player not best for the club

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

No. Australian Rugby sides were competitive from the mid 2000's to the mid 2010's and interest plummeted.

Up until about 2011 the Tahs were getting 20k to games. The constant changes to the competition format and the addition of teams did it no favours.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Yes it was all the expansion which frankly affected my interest.
The kings come over with no player you’ve ever heard of….

 

[Bullrush]

@Bullrush I think you are wrong. I think the decline in viewership that coincided with some really great Reds, Brumbies and Waratah sides demonstrates as much.

But even if you are right. How does staying in Super Rugby and losing to Kiwi sides every week help?

And yes, I get it: 'Cut two teams and you'll be competitive'. No, we simply won't be. We'll be equally as shit with even less fans, even less revenue and fewer professional contracts.

I posted this 2 years ago:

"The Reds best attendance number:
2010 - 22,826
2011 - 33,253
2012 - 34,479
2013 - 31,836

The Brumbies best attendance numbers:
2003 - 21,536
2004 - 21,450
2005 22,895

The Waratahs best attendance numbers:
2003 - 30,521
2004 - 34,500
2005 - 33,739

What's happening in those years? They are winning. They are contenders. The Tahs took a massive hit over the next 10 years dropping to just an average of 17,000-odd in 2013 but in 2014 when they won, they go up to 19,500 and go up again in 2015 when they finished 2nd in the standings but fall in 2016 when they start losing again."

I don't know where the basis for the 'we'll still be shit' argument comes from.

Australia definitely needs a national comp - no doubt. But I don't know who else at the top of world rugby plays solely in a domestic competition.

 

[HooperPocockSmith]

Australia definitely needs a national comp - no doubt. But I don't know who else at the top of world rugby plays solely in a domestic competition.

Hence the Saffas sought out the URC. If a national comp was the answer, surely they'd have just invested more into the Currie Cup. I mean the franchises already existed.

 

[Goosestep]

I posted this 2 years ago:

"The Reds best attendance number:
2010 - 22,826
2011 - 33,253
2012 - 34,479
2013 - 31,836

The Brumbies best attendance numbers:
2003 - 21,536
2004 - 21,450
2005 22,895

The Waratahs best attendance numbers:
2003 - 30,521
2004 - 34,500
2005 - 33,739

What's happening in those years? They are winning. They are contenders. The Tahs took a massive hit over the next 10 years dropping to just an average of 17,000-odd in 2013 but in 2014 when they won, they go up to 19,500 and go up again in 2015 when they finished 2nd in the standings but fall in 2016 when they start losing again."

I don't know where the basis for the 'we'll still be shit' argument comes from.

Australia definitely needs a national comp - no doubt. But I don't know who else at the top of world rugby plays solely in a domestic competition.

From about 1999-2004 rugby was becoming bigger than league, and definitely getting better attendance… then it all went to shit… I blame Johnny Wilkinson lol … but seriously we dropped the ball massively