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Australian Rugby / RA

rodha

rodha

Dave Cowper (27)

Adam84 said:
Robertson doesn’t necessarily excite mean, I believe he is a reflection of the systems in place at the Crusaders rather than purely is coaching ability.
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Scott Robertson also won trophies with the NZ U20's and Canterbury as well. He managed 3 titles in 4 seasons with Canterbury (Robbie Deans achieved 1 title in 4 seasons). Also, when he took the reigns at the Crusaders, they had just lost Nadolo, McCaw, Carter, Flynn, Andy Ellis, Robbie Fruean, Nepo Laulala, Colin Slade and many others. He took an inexperienced group, a backline of kids at the time, Crusaders hadn't won a single title in 9 seasons under Blackadder (with genuinely the most talent-laden, depth heavy & experienced Crusader squads ever), however unbelievably, following that mass exodus, Robertson has managed to achieve 6/6 titles, with most certainly inferior squads to Robbie Deans & without a doubt Todd Blackadder, who very fortunately possessed an enviable team spine consisting of multiple Crusader/All Black greats & dozens of other experienced internationals at/or approaching their athletic peaks.

23px-Flag_of_New_Zealand.svg.png
Vance Stewart		1995-19961121818.18
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Wayne Smith		1997–1999372421164.86
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Robbie Deans		2000–20081208913074.17
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Todd Blackadder		2009–20161338534563.91
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Scott Robertson		2017-20221018541284.16
 
Adam84

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
stillmissit said:
Anyone who has a career and thinks they are capable of stepping up, I guess you knew that. There also seem to be a few here who think a guy at 48 who has been a coach for a fair few years needs to become a national coach to become one!
Competence and talent are in short supply, always have been and always will be. Anyone who has those skills should not have to wait until they are half a century old to put those skills into place.
How long is the apprenticeship to become a national coach?
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No because I wouldn't be offended if people questioned my credentials to fill a role at a level I never have before

I asked who were talking to because I haven’t seen anyone say razor needs to be a test coach elsewhere before wallaby consideration. Plenty of people have questioned his lack of coaching outside of NZ systems and Christchurch though.

it’s a more then reasonable question especially given how different Australia rugby is without the same systems and talent.
 
Tomthumb

Tomthumb

Peter Fenwicke (45)
From some of these comments you’d have though Robertson took over a juggernaut Crusaders team

Maybe people are unaware, but they hadn’t won a title for almost a decade when Robertson took over
 
Tomthumb

Tomthumb

Peter Fenwicke (45)
Adam84 said:
No because I wouldn't be offended if people questioned my credentials to fill a role at a level I never have before

I asked who were talking to because I haven’t seen anyone say razor needs to be a test coach elsewhere before wallaby consideration. Plenty of people have questioned his lack of coaching outside of NZ systems and Christchurch though.

it’s a more then reasonable question especially given how different Australia rugby is without the same systems and talent.
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You may want to read up the thread. It has been mentioned that Jamie Joseph’s coaching of a tier 2 test nation makes him a better qualified coach than Robertson
 
Adam84

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
Tomthumb said:
You may want to read up the thread. It has been mentioned that Jamie Joseph’s coaching of a tier 2 test nation makes him a better qualified coach than Robertson
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What does that have to do with what I said?

All thing else remaining constant, experience and success in a variety of systems besides just NZ/Christchurch is worth something. Not saying that makes him a better coach, but it is absolutely counts in his favour when recruiting a coach to a system outside of NZ/Christchurch.

There seems to be an argument here that Robertsons credentials for Wallabies coach are above question, which is nonsense. There is no perfect candidate, they all have flaws or gaps which is why they aren’t head coaches of test nations now.
 
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MarkJ

MarkJ

Bob Loudon (25)
Tomthumb said:
From some of these comments you’d have though Robertson took over a juggernaut Crusaders team

Maybe people are unaware, but they hadn’t won a title for almost a decade when Robertson took over
Click to expand...
Perhaps that says more about Todd Blackadder’s coaching than it does about Robertson’s?
 
The Ghost of Raelene

The Ghost of Raelene

David Codey (61)
Thank God Robertson would never see this forum. He could not have done more at this stage of his career to enhance himself. He's won everywhere he has gone. Do we need him to take Benetton to the Heineken Cup and win it? There would be a lot of professional coaches in positions with less winning records than Razor.

Could he go to a National team and fail? Sure. But it may not mean he's all to blame. He could also be fantastic and you have to take the chance to get him at this stage of his career. If Deans had got the ABs I'm confident they still win the RWC and he'd be considered one of the all time legends. He had a 59% win rate with a team that has to play NZ, RSA every year multiple times and while he had some great talent in his teams he also had some proper dickheads at the time in how they carried on.

We should aim to be no.1 in the world like others have said. But we also can't be delusional about sticking our nose up at good coaching candidates that may be available to us. The ARU/RA have created this mess over the last 25 years, and I think are fine with a coach copping the criticism. We run a national team built off the back of 10-12 schools nationally fielding the majority of our professional players. That's not sustainable, especially with how expensive some of these schools are becoming will further add to the squeeze. You can see it with their inaction in regard to the Womens 15s. Rest of the world moving forward but not us, she'll be right whilst the NRLW will take everyone with an ounce of talent.
 
stillmissit

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
Viking said:
I don't think anyone is debating that. Everyone is simply arguing who is the BEST candidate.

As it stands, Robertson is not proven on the international stage.

Just like a manager at age 48 is not a proven CEO until he actually becomes a CEO and succeeds. I don't think anyone is debating that Robertson doesn't deserve his promotion. He absolutely does.

But he is not the only option. Do you hire a experienced CEO with a decent track record (Schmidt, Joseph), or the hot shot upcoming manager looking for a promotion (Razor)?

There is no doubt Robinson is a great option for national coach but do you think Razor is the BEST candidate available?
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Viking, when your company is in deep shit and you need a way out an experienced CEO who has never had to turn a company around is of little use to you. I suggest DC is a turnaround specialist and Robertson is a highly talented hot-shot coach.
We brought in Rennie as an untried national coach and everyone applauded the decision including me. Now I am talking about bringing in a coach who is an untried national coach. The man is more important than just experience.
 
waiopehu oldboy

waiopehu oldboy

George Smith (75)
Tomthumb said:
From some of these comments you’d have though Robertson took over a juggernaut Crusaders team

Maybe people are unaware, but they hadn’t won a title for almost a decade when Robertson took over
Click to expand...

To be fair to Toddy they did make two Finals, one of them whilst dealing with the consequences of the 2010/11 Christchurch Earthquakes.
 
stillmissit

stillmissit

Peter Johnson (47)
Adam84 said:
What does that have to do with what I said?

All thing else remaining constant, experience and success in a variety of systems besides just NZ/Christchurch is worth something. Not saying that makes him a better coach, but it is absolutely counts in his favour when recruiting a coach to a system outside of NZ/Christchurch.

There seems to be an argument here that Robertsons credentials for Wallabies coach are above question, which is nonsense. There is no perfect candidate, they all have flaws or gaps which is why they aren’t head coaches of test nations now.
Click to expand...
Adam, what you posted is why we may end up with a coach whose resume reads well but has little to recommend it in terms of fixing our average record since McQueen's time.
And this is why it's important: We all agree that we want to expand our game and pick up or keep young talent that is going to RL and AFL. We also want the ARU overhauled and improve all our training and coaching across the country.
You don't do that without a solid bank balance, a conservative coach who could supply us with a 50% win rate won't fill the coffers. Still, you and all who want a proven coach can all applaud that he is so much better than Rennie! I have said before Rennie is not the worst coach we have had but you live or die on your record not on how good a coach you are. In another environment, Rennie could be successful.
 
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