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Australian Rugby / RA

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
I think refs talk too much as well. Calling if the ball is out of a scrum or ruck. Calling if the ball is taken back or not. These are things players should be judging for themselves. If they get it wrong, it's their problem. By calling these things the refs (that do it) are giving defences more time to get up, and it stifles attacking rugby. At least that what I think, and I've been wrong about a lot of things over the years.
 

Members Section

John Thornett (49)
I think refs talk too much as well. Calling if the ball is out of a scrum or ruck. Calling if the ball is taken back or not. These are things players should be judging for themselves. If they get it wrong, it's their problem. By calling these things the refs (that do it) are giving defences more time to get up, and it stifles attacking rugby. At least that what I think, and I've been wrong about a lot of things over the years.

Not having a go at all but do you think they talk to much or do you think that we hear too much?
 

Sully

Tim Horan (67)
Staff member
need to sort out the TMO business and how much they interfere in the game, calling the play back multiple phases for some shit, or taking 3 minutes to make a decision as they watch 20 different angles in slow-mo is a blight on the game
A lot of this is about not be able to be wrong. Even though mistakes are still made. The public and punters need certainty. Like most sports, rugby bought in the tmo to fix awful decisions. What we got instead, like all the other sports, is paralysis by analysis. Some refs think every try needs to be checked. It's overused to cover arses because sure as shit some video geek is rolling through tape looking for a stuff up. Especially if the away team scored.
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
A lot of this is about not be able to be wrong. Even though mistakes are still made. The public and punters need certainty. Like most sports, rugby bought in the tmo to fix awful decisions. What we got instead, like all the other sports, is paralysis by analysis. Some refs think every try needs to be checked. It's overused to cover arses because sure as shit some video geek is rolling through tape looking for a stuff up. Especially if the away team scored.
I reckon this could be helped if World Rugby (or whoever) published their assessment criteria and margins of error for refs.

If a ref fucks up a significant call (which happens just about every match), but it comes out in the wash that he was well within acceptable parameters overall then it would be easier to manage backlash.
 

Rebel man

John Thornett (49)
need to sort out the TMO business and how much they interfere in the game, calling the play back multiple phases for some shit, or taking 3 minutes to make a decision as they watch 20 different angles in slow-mo is a blight on the game
100%
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Rookie of the Year announced tomorrow. Who are the candidates from each team?

I guess Vunivalu is an obvious one, but I don't think thats in the spirit of the award. GRealy, Thomas, Henry, Asiata, Draosese, Wallis and Grealy other options. I like either Isaac Henry or, more strongly, Ryan Smith.

Not sure about the other states - who made their debut last year?
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
Rookie of the Year announced tomorrow. Who are the candidates from each team?

I guess Vunivalu is an obvious one, but I don't think thats in the spirit of the award. GRealy, Thomas, Henry, Asiata, Draosese, Wallis and Grealy other options. I like either Isaac Henry or, more strongly, Ryan Smith.

Not sure about the other states - who made their debut last year?

If it's only guys who played for the first time in 2021 than Henry and Smith are a great shout, so many of the "rookies" got a bit of time in 2020. The only others I can think of who stand out are Carter Gordon and Tim Anstee.

If there's a bit of lee-way I might look at Tizzano, only played for 10 minutes or so in 2020 and had an excellent 2021.
 

Set piece magic

John Solomon (38)
TMO Guidelines:


Cannot alert the referee to stop play for anything except foul play. The referee may ask the TMO to check something in the in goal as a try is scored, but the TMO may not request it.

Cannot rule on anything in the main field of play except possible red card offences. Can't rule on forward passes in the lead up to tries, can't rule on knock ons in the lead up to tries, I don't care, I accept that mistakes will be made.

Procedural / Law Changes that would reduce ambiguity and contentious decisions:

- Red Card must be clear and undebatable first contact to the head. The definition should include clear and undebatable. The instant it appears as though the contact could have been at the same time or after lower contact it is immediately lowered to a yellow card. This reduces red card offences to the very clear and actually dangerous head hits, like the SBW 2017 Red Card. It would make the Marike red a yellow
- Lineout not straight can only be called if the opposing team contests the lineout - ie they were denied a fair chance of competing
- open slather on deliberate knock downs. They're too controversial, too subjective, and frankly too much of a non event to stop the game for. Someone got in the way of the pass, the end.
- reset clock for scrums. Should take 20 seconds max, some resets take 45 seconds which is just appallingly slow. Some people say 20 is unreasonable, I don't agree. You will regularly find old games where the reset takes 12 seconds, even less. The players are fitter and stronger now and the delay is gamesmanship.


Final point - the constant stop start nature and extended period where decisions are reviewed and made leads to a huge focus on the decisions - because we're spending heaps of time watching decisions be made, not rugby! Making the game faster and move along quicker actually takes the focus off of officials mistakes and makes people talk about rugby, not the officials
 

Adam84

Rod McCall (65)
Even the process of referring it to the TMO, and how its viewed needs to be addressed.
Why are there questions marks over the local broadcaster influencing TMO/Referee decisions?
Why does it take 5 minutes or rewinding, and talking about ’other angles’ for a decision to be made.

NRL introduced the bunker, which was a concept taken from the NFL. Where the room has multiple feeds and is designed to expedite speed of the calls and improve the accuracy. If World Rugby/Super Rugby cant achieve this then they should scrap/reduce the TMO’s involvement until they can.
 

Tomikin

David Codey (61)
TMO Guidelines:


Cannot alert the referee to stop play for anything except foul play. The referee may ask the TMO to check something in the in goal as a try is scored, but the TMO may not request it.

Cannot rule on anything in the main field of play except possible red card offences. Can't rule on forward passes in the lead up to tries, can't rule on knock ons in the lead up to tries, I don't care, I accept that mistakes will be made.

Procedural / Law Changes that would reduce ambiguity and contentious decisions:

- Red Card must be clear and undebatable first contact to the head. The definition should include clear and undebatable. The instant it appears as though the contact could have been at the same time or after lower contact it is immediately lowered to a yellow card. This reduces red card offences to the very clear and actually dangerous head hits, like the SBW 2017 Red Card. It would make the Marike red a yellow
- Lineout not straight can only be called if the opposing team contests the lineout - ie they were denied a fair chance of competing
- open slather on deliberate knock downs. They're too controversial, too subjective, and frankly too much of a non event to stop the game for. Someone got in the way of the pass, the end.
- reset clock for scrums. Should take 20 seconds max, some resets take 45 seconds which is just appallingly slow. Some people say 20 is unreasonable, I don't agree. You will regularly find old games where the reset takes 12 seconds, even less. The players are fitter and stronger now and the delay is gamesmanship.


Final point - the constant stop start nature and extended period where decisions are reviewed and made leads to a huge focus on the decisions - because we're spending heaps of time watching decisions be made, not rugby! Making the game faster and move along quicker actually takes the focus off of officials mistakes and makes people talk about rugby, not the officials
I think one of the best games I watched was one with no tmo (think it was possibles vs probables ) Damian Murphy. Have an only in the act of scoring a try, a red card offence then the rest can be done for on-field ref makes the call with his 2 touchies (and could have mistakes okay accept it)

Maybe have a captain's referral 1 a half where the captain can say in that try etc can I have another look at forward pass or whatever in the lead up.. otherwise it's refs call, to get rid of a real shocker.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
Rookie of the Year announced tomorrow. Who are the candidates from each team?

I guess Vunivalu is an obvious one, but I don't think thats in the spirit of the award. GRealy, Thomas, Henry, Asiata, Draosese, Wallis and Grealy other options. I like either Isaac Henry or, more strongly, Ryan Smith.

Not sure about the other states - who made their debut last year?
I’m an idiot. Wallaby Rookie of the Year.
Kellaway the obvious winner.
 

Brumby Runner

Jason Little (69)
Procedural / Law Changes that would reduce ambiguity and contentious decisions:


- Lineout not straight can only be called if the opposing team contests the lineout - ie they were denied a fair chance of competing
I expect there would be some unintended consequences of this change S. Throws could be directed well beyond the outside shoulder giving the opposition no chance at all of competing for the ball whether they jump or not. Otoh, the opposition could counter by jumping for everything (probably as they should), but really not with intention to compete, so that any crooked throws are called back.

Rather than allowing some of the scrum freedoms to apply to the lineout, I'd rather see the scrums be policed as strictly as the lineout throws now are.
 
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Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
^^^
Lineout not straight seems like an easy one for technology to adjudicate, right? Like the offside line used in VAR. If the ball goes outside the line it's automatically pinged.
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
I expect there would be some unintended consequences of this change S. Throws could be directed well beyond the outside shoulder giving the opposition no chance at all of competing for the ball whether they jump or not. Otoh, the opposition could counter by jumping for everything (probably as they should), but really not with intention to compete, so that any crooked throws are called back.

Rather than allowing some of the scrum freedoms to apply to the lineout, I'd rather see the scrums be policed as strictly as the lineout throws now are.
This was one of the original law variations in the NRC and I don't remember any problems with it then. As far as those consequences go I don't mind either of them - if a team is intentionally throwing wide you throw up a jumper to keep them honest. Conversely if you want to reduce competition for your maul you throw wide a bit to bait the other team into competing next time. Treating throws this way would probably be pretty consistent with how the scrum feeds are refereed right now (as opposed to what the law actually says). That said if the accuracy of the not straight calls isn't any better than it is now I don't know it really helps much.
 
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