Australian Rugby / RA

[mst]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I think most get all of that, just think it would have been more beneficial for the Brumbies and Australian Rugby if he had his surgery at the start of the year off rather than at the start of his year back.

Even having the surgery back then would not have guaranteed he would not be needing it again now.

 

[Froggy]

Love the argument mst, that if someone doesn't agree with you they don't understand how contracts work!
Have had just a bit to do with them through the last 40 years, lots of things involved in how they work, but at the heart they are about what is agreed to between the parties as expressed in the contract!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Its fairly clear that many people just don't understand the way contracts work nor the circumstances behind why Pocock had surgery on his knee.

Poey wanted time off, RA wanted to make sure he returned and retained his services.

So if RA want exclusive rights to him, they must contract him and that involves paying him. Should they not, he may not be available for the RWC. They are aware that he can earn plenty more money in less time playing in Europe that would adequately cover his "time off". RA would also be aware that they could have paid him more to not play in Japan. He was willing to play in Japan to earn the extra money. The risk of injury and time available for recovery prior to the RA priority (RWC) should he be injured indicated that RA was best placed to allow him to play in Japan and the risk was offset by the financial saving.

The practise of contracting players and paying them during periods of rest is not new.The NZRU has taken this approach for a awhile now and Izzy is also another example.

In respect to Poey's circumstances, as reported in the media, he has a degenerative knee condition (I believe due to previous knee injuries) that will require "clean ups".

What cause the need for clean ups is walking, running, bending, or general exercise/movement. General use includes things like gardening, walking to the toilet, boarding planes, chasing rhinos and playing sports.

Here is the background for certain people who still are yet to understand whats going on:

The 29-year-old has been plagued by a meniscus problem in his knee since well before he went on his break at the end of 2016, with the Wallabies medical staff hopeful they could manage it by non-surgical means.


Sadly they couldn’t, and leading orthopedic surgeon Peter Myers was forced to operate. The good news is that Pocock should not be playing injured this year. The bad news, however, is that he now faces a rehabilitation that potentially could put him out of action for half the Brumbies’ season.
https://www.theaustralian.com.au/sp...y/news-story/499c3da503b60ae222a48ccde8fb9398

The decision to go under the knife on the eve of Super Rugby after such a lengthy time away from Australia raised eyebrows.


Pocock acknowledged he could have had surgery earlier to prevent missing gametime, but added it wasn’t rare for a player to carry an injury.


“I guess it’s one of those things that I probably could have done it (the surgery earlier),” Pocock said.


“But (coach) Dan McKellar at the Brumbies was keen to get it done."


“You carry injuries for so much of the season and to have a coach that’s keen to have you injury free is pretty nice.”
https://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/...y/news-story/15d0f12c14881fe8daa0abdd27eb7917

McKellar admitted it was a tough decision to put Pocock under the knife but would not be drawn into comment as to why it wasn't done during his sabbatical last year.

"The choices were keep pushing through and managing a knee that wasn't allowing him to perform at 100 per cent or go in and bite the bullet and get the surgery done so we have a world-class player being able to train and perform at the level we expect," McKellar said.

"It was a joint decision, obviously you talk to the player and consider what's in the best interest of the player and club, these decisions are always tough.

"Until you get an arthroscope in the knee, you're not sure what you're dealing with, it could it have been couple of weeks, but it is what it is and now we're dealing with it."

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/rug...ock-void-with-young-guns-20180122-h0m0q2.html

The problem is that RA had their very costly contract but they did not get exclusive rights to him. So what was the point?

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I’m not sure where the supposed hypocrisy lies here?

Grand standing over same Sex marriage for starters.
Demanding money for not playing but then playing for someone other than us for more money and then getting back on the teat at the brumbies while rehabbing rather than doing it on his own time.
Yet another example of RA letting some players think they are bigger than the game and some players coming to the same view.

 

[Slim 293]

Grand standing over same Sex marriage for starters.
Demanding money for not playing but then playing for someone other than us for more money and then getting back on the teat at the brumbies while rehabbing rather than doing it on his own time.
Yet another example of RA letting some players think they are bigger than the game and some players coming to the same view.

Again........ What does his stance on same sex marriage have to do with his professional playing contract?

 

[TOCC]

Grand standing over same Sex marriage for starters.
Demanding money for not playing but then playing for someone other than us for more money and then getting back on the teat at the brumbies while rehabbing rather than doing it on his own time.
Yet another example of RA letting some players think they are bigger than the game and some players coming to the same view.

I don't see how Pocock's support of same sex marriage should really be an issue with his playing contract, just like I don't think Folau's opposition to same sex marriage should be an issue when it comes to his playing contract.

 

[mst]

The problem is that RA had their very costly contract but they did not get exclusive rights to him. So what was the point?

What exclusive rights didn't they have? They agreed to every piece of that contact including the opportunity to influence when he would and wouldn't play and a say in where and most likely the conditions of that deal.

 

[mst]

Love the argument mst, that if someone doesn't agree with you they don't understand how contracts work!
Have had just a bit to do with them through the last 40 years, lots of things involved in how they work, but at the heart they are about what is agreed to between the parties as expressed in the contract!

Um, that's not my argument nor my point at all.

I would suggest you go back and read back through the conversation to understand the context of my comments. The claim some are making that he should not have been paid or contracted during his sabbatical miss the point that he was not obliged to return and could have been contracted by other parties. RA wanted to ensure he returned and thus contracted him for a period including his sabbatical.

As for his contract and handling of his knee issue, all parties knew before he went he would require surgery on the knee at some point. RA's reported position was to leave the surgery until necessary (standard as there are risks and the less surgery the better). All parties were aware of his plans to rhino chase and play in Japan. I am sure Suntory did a medical on him as part of their pre-contract. Obviously he was medically OK. He was also medically Ok when he arrived at the Brumbies.

Logically, RA, Brumbies and Pocock preference would have been that the surgery was done here in Australia. Suntory may have had issues (justifiable) noting the agreed contact if RA pull him in for "non-urgent" surgery mid-contract. So the timing was reasonably set in stone until after his Japan stint (subject to no further injury).

It been reported that McKeller at the Brumbies prefer surgery early in the season rather than later.

I don't see the issue that many other are claiming there is. We the public initially were justifiably angered but with the details now available that all parties involved in the contract and management of his health were all aware and informed of the degenerative condition and that surgery was expected its clear its been managed as per RA's choices.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Again.... What does his stance on same sex marriage have to do with his professional playing contract?

It’s part of the personality that thinks his views are intinrisically worthy - feeding his view, fostered by the ARU, that he is bigger than the game.
He’s merely a smarter version of JOC (James O'Connor).

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What exclusive rights didn't they have? They agreed to every piece of that contact including the opportunity to influence when he would and wouldn't play and a say in where and most likely the conditions of that deal.

It wasn’t me who suggested they had exclusive rights: try to keep up.
The assertion they had exclusive rights was said to justify paying him for not playing - Joseph heller foresaw just this type of decay.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't see how Pocock's support of same sex marriage should really be an issue with his playing contract, just like I don't think Folau's opposition to same sex marriage should be an issue when it comes to his playing contract.

I agree, but he uses his playing to sprout his political views (all of which I happen to agree with). I don’t think ts fair that, whether directly or otherwise, we the rugby playing families pay a participation fee to prop him up and provide his soapbox but having done so the brumbies lose him for half a season.
Let him follow his dreams and lobby Marie Le Pen through European media.

 

[Slim 293]

It’s part of the personality that thinks his views are intinrisically worthy - feeding his view, fostered by the ARU, that he is bigger than the game.
He’s merely a smarter version of JOC (James O'Connor).

Er, that's quite a leap.........

 

[Slim 293]

I don’t think ts fair that, whether directly or otherwise, we the rugby playing families pay a participation fee to prop him up and provide his soapbox but having done so the brumbies lose him for half a season.

What effect did this soapbox have on Pocock's knee?

 

[USARugger]

Er, that's quite a leap...

Well you see an athlete having an opinion on social issues and being involved in things outside the game is basically the same as showing up shitcanned for a team flight and getting arrested trying to buy blow in Paris, ok?

 

[Dismal Pillock]

the damage the torn meniscus did to the knee is another problem that I and DP will have to work through

Like fuck. I'm busy. Besides, you can't afford me.

 

[Gnostic]

For me the stupidity of the Pocock contract lies simply in one inarguable fact, he was granted a flexible contract for the reported purpose of a sabbatical and opportunity to study. So during this contracted down time he took a high priced advanced basket weaving course and plied the same trade he was "having a break" from using those same skills he had already sold by contract to the ARU. Now I generally subscribe to the view in all physically demanding occupations that there is a finite life for the practitioner that individually varies, but it is in all cases finite in terms of "on" hours. So he spent some of that "on" time, selling it to a third party, whilst denying it to his primary contracted employer.

The fact that the ARU signed the contract just proves how absolutely inept they are. And to those who say that all sports people and others should chase whatever they can and good luck to them, that is fine if you do not also have ethics, or at most the flexible, questionable ethics of Lawyers and Bankers, it is what makes society what it is today, dog eat dog and lacking in real empathy and sense of community.

 

[I like to watch]

Nah, he signed 3 season deal in Japan(over 4 years) with the full knowledge of the ARU, no hidden agenda from him.

I can understand some people think the ARU are chumps for agreeing to the deal, as I can also understand some people think that the ARU were correct in executing a "cunning deal" that was competitive with what's available in Europe to keep him as aWallaby up to and including the next RWC.

Its easy to forget how much better we are with him.

 

[Strewthcobber]

How much is the Japan deal worth? Maybe that's his "primary" contract

 

[Mr Wobbly]

Not sure where the best place to put this is but, from today's Age:

ABC and rugby.com radio
Excellent news for rugby fans who won't fork out for Fox Sports but still want their Super Rugby fix. Rugby Australia and the ABC have struck a deal that means every match on Australian soil and all Aussie away games in New Zealand and Japan will be called live on either ABC Grandstand or RUGBY.com.au Radio this season.
Channel Ten's voice of rugby Gordon Bray will be calling the matches for the RUGBY.com.au team alongside Olympic gold medallist and women's sevens co-captain Shannon Parry and former Wallaby-turned-RA-staffer Adam Freier. Veteran callers Tim Gavel and Quentin Hull will be leading the charge for Grandstand, with former Test centre Pat McCabe weighing in from Canberra and former Reds coach Phil Mooney from Brisbane.
"I think people now know that if they can't get to a TV set there is a good alternative there and hopefully we can provide a terrific product," Bray said. "I'm back to where it all began after starting out at the ABC as a sports cadet."

 

[John S]

Works for me. However got the old man's foxtel log in, so can watch it on the Foxtel app...... winning