Australian Rugby / RA

[Adam84]

interesting article discussing Welsh Rugby and the current performance issues and how some of their issues seem to have similarities with complaints about Australian rugby, the disbandment of their national academy around 2014 and shifting that responsibility to the regional unions highlighted as a key reason for the decline.

The truth about the decision Welsh rugby's problems keep coming back to

How did Welsh rugby produce its golden generation of players and what has gone wrong since?

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[Strewthcobber]

interesting article discussing Welsh Rugby and the current performance issues and how some of their issues seem to have similarities with complaints about Australian rugby, the disbandment of their national academy around 2014 and shifting that responsibility to the regional unions highlighted as a key reason for the decline.

The truth about the decision Welsh rugby's problems keep coming back to

How did Welsh rugby produce its golden generation of players and what has gone wrong since?

www.walesonline.co.uk

Good read. This bit was interesting. Probably the same issue for Australia's Super Rugby teams but more about our loss of domestic players OS, rather than the loss of of the OS players for Wales

A player who was involved at the time told this writer the price of entry into the regional squads, let alone the first team, was far higher than it is now. When a Welsh side announces the signing of a non-Welsh qualified player the social media comment sections underneath the announcement is usually littered with fans concerned at how the individual in question could be blocking the progress of home-grown talent.

But top-end overseas players were invaluable in developing Wales' golden generation of talent. The likes of Justin Marshall, David Lyons, Xavier Rush, Filo Tiatia, Percy Montgomery and Marty Holah, among others, set incredibly high standards.

How Wales has managed to be where they are despite consistently spending more than twice as much as Rugby Australia does is worth another article. Where does the money go?

 

[Brumby Runner]

interesting article discussing Welsh Rugby and the current performance issues and how some of their issues seem to have similarities with complaints about Australian rugby, the disbandment of their national academy around 2014 and shifting that responsibility to the regional unions highlighted as a key reason for the decline.

The truth about the decision Welsh rugby's problems keep coming back to

How did Welsh rugby produce its golden generation of players and what has gone wrong since?

www.walesonline.co.uk

Adam, it seems to me to be that the decline at the top level here could have been associated with the closing of the franchise academies rather than the other way around. With the re-establishment of those academies, things seem to be looking up at Super and test level. Anything to this, would you think?

 

[Adam84]

Adam, it seems to me to be that the decline at the top level here could have been associated with the closing of the franchise academies rather than the other way around. With the re-establishment of those academies, things seem to be looking up at Super and test level. Anything to this, would you think?

If you read the article, the 'halcyon period' they refer to for Wales in 2005-2014 still included regional academies, but it also had another tier over the top as a national academy for identification and coordination of the top cadre of those players in the regional academies and alignment to a national model. How this relates to Australian Rugby is the alignment (or lack of) at a national level(not just limited to academy structures), which is something RA and the State Unions have been grappling to find a balance on.

Wales experience, objectively at the academy level is relying on the regions to do all the high-performance development and talent identification, isn't producing results

All players were contracted to the four regions but a lot of it was coordinated by the WRU. For example, the former head of S&C for the men's national team, Mark Bennett, would go around the four regions offering extra support to the academy players, while the likes of Gruff Rees, Danny Wilson and Neil Jenkins, among others, helped oversee the skills curriculum across the programme.

These coaches were employed by the WRU but sent out to the regions. The four regions, with significant support from the WRU, did a fantastic job in developing their own players, but there was a level above that was reserved for the very best prospects.

This created an aspirational culture among the players. It was one thing getting into a regional academy but being included on the WRU's watchlist was another thing entirely. But, crucially, these players were never contracted by the WRU and were aware they would be dropped from this elite group if they were not up to standard. It was very much an invite-only club and there was far more emphasis on the quality of players rather than the quantity.

 

[Wilson]

How Wales has managed to be where they are despite consistently spending more than twice as much as Rugby Australia does is worth another article. Where does the money go?

They have a truly horrible governance structure, which sees a lot of power and influence rest with the club and community game, similar to how it does in New Zealand's.

Welsh rugby's governance structure explained as it comes under fire

The Welsh Rugby Union Board remain powerful in the game here, with grassroots clubs ultimately holding the real power

www.walesonline.co.uk

 

[stillmissit]

Until we have all Super Rugby sides aligned with the Wallabies, the rest is Hypothetical. It is hard to put a plan in place when only 2 of 4 are aligned.
The academy's performance is rarely discussed anywhere, I assume they have not been great.

 

[stillmissit]

They have a truly horrible governance structure, which sees a lot of power and influence rest with the club and community game, similar to how it does in New Zealand's.

Welsh rugby's governance structure explained as it comes under fire

The Welsh Rugby Union Board remain powerful in the game here, with grassroots clubs ultimately holding the real power

www.walesonline.co.uk

And did in Australia only back in O'Neil's time according to his book 'It's Only a Game'. Politics and Rugby are an ongoing issue.

 

[Adam84]

I think the academies have varying success, i found this of the 2022 Development Squad, and the success rate converting these players to Reds players is pretty poor for that year.. Reds have changed this structure from 2022 onwards, though, it seems, with the 3 different tiers of the academy representing different age groups.

Taj Annan: NRL
Wilson Blyth: QPR ?
George Blake: Queensland Reds
Floyd Aubrey: Rugby League
Lopeti Faifua: Western Force
Keynan Tauakipulu: QPR ?
Carsen Patu: Rugby League

 

[Tazzmania]

Lopeti Faifua is in the Western Force Squad:

2024: Starts 2 and 9 games off the bench.

 

[Wilson]

I think the academies have varying success, i found this of the 2022 Reds Academy, and the success rate converting these players to Reds players is pretty poor..

View attachment 21015
Taj Annan: NRL
Wilson Blyth: QPR ?
George Blake: Queensland Reds
Floyd Aubrey: Rugby League
Lopeti Faifua: QPR ?
Keynan Tauakipulu: Western Force
Carsen Patu: Rugby League

Lopeti Faifua is with the Force, made the move for last season.

More broadly though, I'm not sure the measure should be how many academy graduates make it to the Reds (or as pros in Australian rugby in general), but more the opposite direction - how many of the pros have come through the academy. The idea is that these programs should be acting to funnel talent in to the top, taking in a wider group with only the best graduating to the big time, or at least that's what the Wales Online article seemed to suggest was the strength of their previous system.

 

[Adam84]

Lopeti Faifua is with the Force, made the move for last season.

More broadly though, I'm not sure the measure should be how many academy graduates make it to the Reds (or as pros in Australian rugby in general), but more the opposite direction - how many of the pros have come through the academy. The idea is that these programs should be acting to funnel talent in to the top, taking in a wider group with only the best graduating to the big time, or at least that's what the Wales Online article seemed to suggest was the strength of their previous system.

yes sorry i got Faifua and Tauakipulu around the wrong way

 

[Adam84]

I should clarify... the Reds Emerging Player Squad are part-time players training with the top squad, the 'Reds Tier 1' academy is >20 players of 18+ and will form the core of the Reds U20 side.

 

[LeCheese]

Aubrey and Annan are interesting ones - I feel like they were given plenty of chances to stake their claim, but failed to do so. Whether that in of itself is a failing of the Academy is up for debate, but I feel as though the Academy did its job in at least giving them exposure and opportunities.

 

[stillmissit]

I think the academies have varying success, i found this of the 2022 Development Squad, and the success rate converting these players to Reds players is pretty poor for that year.. Reds have changed this structure from 2022 onwards, though, it seems, with the 3 different tiers of the academy representing different age groups.

View attachment 21015
Taj Annan: NRL
Wilson Blyth: QPR ?
George Blake: Queensland Reds
Floyd Aubrey: Rugby League
Lopeti Faifua: Western Force
Keynan Tauakipulu: QPR ?
Carsen Patu: Rugby League

Makes me wonder if the league management is watching the academies as well as the private schools, 4 out of 7 is a pretty poor moving to league. if that is mirrored around Australia we are paying for a training ground for league players.

 

[stillmissit]

I should clarify... the Reds Emerging Player Squad are part-time players training with the top squad, the 'Reds Tier 1' academy is >20 players of 18+ and will form the core of the Reds U20 side.

Had a look at 'reds emerging' and it looks pretty comprehensive, has it always been like this?

 

[Brumby Runner]

Until we have all Super Rugby sides aligned with the Wallabies, the rest is Hypothetical. It is hard to put a plan in place when only 2 of 4 are aligned.
The academy's performance is rarely discussed anywhere, I assume they have not been great.

Not too sure about that. Academy players are being promoted to the Brumbies squad every year, including some recent examples in Charlie Cale, Declan Mereith, Klayton Thorn, Harry Vella and this year Lachlan Hooper, Tevita Alatini, Liam Bowron, Kadin Pritchard and Shane Wilcox. Seems to be a good working model for the Brumbies.

 

[stillmissit]

Not too sure about that. Academy players are being promoted to the Brumbies squad every year, including some recent examples in Charlie Cale, Declan Mereith, Klayton Thorn, Harry Vella and this year Lachlan Hooper, Tevita Alatini, Liam Bowron, Kadin Pritchard and Shane Wilcox. Seems to be a good working model for the Brumbies.

That sounds good and maybe one of the reasons the Brumbies are always strong, wonder how the others are going?

 

[Brumby Runner]

My main concern about the Brumbies Academy (and this is a topic for another thread) is that it isn't visible. I can't find on their website or Facebook any details of players who are in the academy from year to year. It seems to be only when someone gets promoted or picked in a national team that they get a mention.

 

[Adam84]

Not too sure about that. Academy players are being promoted to the Brumbies squad every year, including some recent examples in Charlie Cale, Declan Mereith, Klayton Thorn, Harry Vella and this year Lachlan Hooper, Tevita Alatini, Liam Bowron, Kadin Pritchard and Shane Wilcox. Seems to be a good working model for the Brumbies.

Some could argue Harry Vella is actually a product of the Reds Academy program... Was in the Reds academy for 4 years through U18-U20s/Junior Wallabies, and Brumbies academy less then12 months before promoted to senior squad.

but yes a good working model for the Brumbies nonetheless

 

[Braveheart81]

Aren't the academies now really just collectively the under 15, under 16 and under 19 Super Rugby sides and some of those under 19s players are likely to be on some sort of development contract where they are training with the team more than just when the under 19 side is preparing for their games.

I think the biggest improvement for Australian rugby is there is now a pretty clear pathway that keeps the kids connected to a team for multiple years and then funnels the best of them into getting some remuneration when they hit under 19s with the potential that they can go from there to the Super Rugby squad.

There's never going to be anywhere near as many professional rugby jobs in Australia as there are talented kids coming through the ranks. I think the key aspect is establishing that connection to Australian rugby and a specific Australian team so when it comes to the best players signing professional contracts that rugby has a fighting chance to be the destination of choice.