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Australian Rugby / RA

Tomthumb

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
This season was sweet but it's been 21 years of pretty dismal results. Even last year when we thought we might finally be good, we got SMASHED in the semi.

And I never heard anyone ever say - let's pull the Blues out of Super Rugby and just concentrate on the Gallagher Shield.
The Blues are more successful than any Australian side

And the Blues poor results were simply to do with bad coaching appointments and poor recruitment
 

SouthernX

Jim Lenehan (48)
This season was sweet but it's been 21 years of pretty dismal results. Even last year when we thought we might finally be good, we got SMASHED in the semi.

And I never heard anyone ever say - let's pull the Blues out of Super Rugby and just concentrate on the Gallagher Shield.

hypothetically - what do you think happens to the blues/Nz in that scenario.

I’ll tell you what happens. The all blacks end up on the 4 other super rugby teams. A couple of young development players too…

but a good proportion of players heads overseas because there’s only so many super rugby pro contracts floating around and suddenly NZ Rugby has a shallower player pool to draft from for the national team.

the idea removing the rebels from super rugby is going to improve our test rugby standards is maddening. It will make inroads for the Aussie teams climbing super rugby ladder but it just makes the wallabies weaker in process
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
NZ went 5 years without the Bledisloe from '98 - '03 and also went over 20 years being called chokers for not winning a RWC. Gregan famously reminded us of this with his 'Four more years!'

Australia is in a worse position than we were but still...I don't think NZ ever looked to play lesser competition to get better over that time.

BTW, I am also a Blues fan, a Moana Pasifika fan and a NZ Warriors fan. My teams have been getting embarrassed for a long time.
There are too many reasons to list why the two situations are not even remotely comparable.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
hypothetically - what do you think happens to the blues/Nz in that scenario.

I’ll tell you what happens. The all blacks end up on the 4 other super rugby teams. A couple of young development players too…

but a good proportion of players heads overseas because there’s only so many super rugby pro contracts floating around and suddenly NZ Rugby has a shallower player pool to draft from for the national team.

the idea removing the rebels from super rugby is going to improve our test rugby standards is maddening. It will make inroads for the Aussie teams climbing super rugby ladder but it just makes the wallabies weaker in process
So why doesn't larger player pools equate to success for countries like Japan who has more players than Australia?

England, France, Japan, Italy, Wales and Ireland all have larger player pools than NZ. It's about quality rather than quantity.

The reality is that NZ will never be able to offer every player a pro contract. Many of them aren't good enough for Super Rugby. The hard part is trying to hang on to the good ones.

Simply having a Super Rugby team so that you can offer players a pro contract when they aren't good enough doesn't make for better Wallaby teams.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
Still more successful than any Australian side in Super Rugby history. Think about that for a second
OK. Thought about it....

When did the Blues ever think about getting out of Super Rugby so they could concentrate on the Gallagher Shield?

If leaving a competition because your team keeps losing is the best way to engage fans and build a better player base, why aren't you guys celebrating the Rebels getting dumped?

Now Melbourne fans can concentrate on their local team winning the Dewar Shield and that will lead to increased fan engagement which will lead to more players and better players.
 

Tomthumb

Nicholas Shehadie (39)
OK. Thought about it....

When did the Blues ever think about getting out of Super Rugby so they could concentrate on the Gallagher Shield?

If leaving a competition because your team keeps losing is the best way to engage fans and build a better player base, why aren't you guys celebrating the Rebels getting dumped?

Now Melbourne fans can concentrate on their local team winning the Dewar Shield and that will lead to increased fan engagement which will lead to more players and better players.
You are comparing one Super Team struggling while the other 4 weren't

Australia at best has one team not being terrible at any one time

Again, it's apples to oranges
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
You are comparing one Super Team struggling while the other 4 weren't

Australia at best has one team not being terrible at any one time

Again, it's apples to oranges
No. At best, Australia has a team win the competition. You are acting as if Australia has never been competitive.

Australian teams have won it 4 or 5 times? They have played in the Finals multiple times. It's not as if the current state has been the perpetual status of the Australian teams.
 

SouthernX

Jim Lenehan (48)
Simply having a Super Rugby team so that you can offer players a pro contract when they aren't good enough doesn't make for better Wallaby teams.

Maybe not good enough now but what about in 4 years time?

we just going to let these players leave and their development now happens in pro rugby in France of Japan (there’s no development opportunity in Aus) these players are now suspect from a international test rugby raid due to newly earned citizenship status
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
Maybe not good enough now but what about in 4 years time?

we just going to let these players leave and their development now happens in pro rugby in France of Japan (there’s no development opportunity in Aus) these players are now suspect from a international test rugby raid due to newly earned citizenship status
Maybe. Perhaps you're right but I don't know where else this works.

In saying that, I don't think any other country faces the same environment Australia does with the NRL and AFL.

I can't see how it works but it wouldn't be the first thing I've been wrong on. The risk is pretty big though....
 

Derpus

Nathan Sharpe (72)
I never understand why you care so much.
Maybe. Perhaps you're right but I don't know where else this works.

In saying that, I don't think any other country faces the same environment Australia does with the NRL and AFL.

I can't see how it works but it wouldn't be the first thing I've been wrong on. The risk is pretty big though....
Rugby is way down the list of pretty much any country its played in except NZ. A very similar example would be Ireland with Football, Hurling, Gaelic football etc.

I've heard its losing quite a bit of ground in NZ to less CTE inducing sports, too.
 

Bullrush

John Hipwell (52)
I never understand why you care so much.

Rugby is way down the list of pretty much any country its played in except NZ. A very similar example would be Ireland with Football, Hurling, Gaelic football etc.

I've heard its losing quite a bit of ground in NZ to less CTE inducing sports,
Why the fuck wouldn't I care?

I love rugby, all my kids play and I coach - why shouldn't I care?
 

stoff

Phil Hardcastle (33)
Just a note. Bullrush, Stoff, Dan are Kiwi fans wanting the best for Kiwi rugby. They have the presentation of being irritated with thoughts in Australia that do not suit that focus.

It is tiresome going in circles but it seems more relevant to me continue the discussion with the actual Australian supporters who also support Super over expansion.
WTF - Melbourne born and bred. Never been to NZ and have no kiwi relations and very few kiwi friends. I’m a disenfranchised Australian fan, not a kiwi. I should report this for playing the man
 

dru

Tim Horan (67)
WTF - Melbourne born and bred. Never been to NZ and have no kiwi relations and very few kiwi friends. I’m a disenfranchised Australian fan, not a kiwi. I should report this for playing the man

Ah, apologies Stoff. Big error there. Report as necessary. All the best.
 

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Just out of interest fellas, I not looking at it from a kiwi fan's point of view as many here would be happy to see Super go. I was at super games for years in Aus, from 1997 until 2019 I can say I was at more games that the Reds played in Qld than I missed, also followed them to a few away game etc, and kind of believe the drop off fans (that I saw) and interest really seemed to happen with expansion to extra teams. Early years there was packed crowds at Tahs/Reds matches (and Brumbies a little less), but as Reds struggled for a few years , there were barely decent crowds at the Tahs games.
I not sure what answer is by any means, but clinging to a 1 game in 2021 ( crowd of 41600 not 52000, that was in 2011 against Crusaders ) where there was a good crowd isn't answer. The rest of that year there were piss poor crowds Rebels had crowds of under 5000, there were hardly and crowds over 10,000 (including the qualifying final) . The second biggest crowd in Aus was Reds ve Crusaders that year. Force crowd numbers were almost double for kiwi matches than for Super Au in 2021.

I personally wouldn't go into a panic if super did go, and my only concern is the ability of players being able to be held onto with no money coming in from tv deals to pay them.
I bet if Wallabies win Bledisloe or WC you would see crowds increase in a big way.

Probably it's maybe a difference of outlook, when any team I support etc is getting beaten, I look to them to get better (and boy my team in club rugby in Aus and here in the Naki was/are classic cases), and many here believe the answer is perhaps find an easier comp so they can win?
 
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