Australian Rugby / RA

[Killer]

On couple of days ago we had Clyne saying this:

n a statement ARU chairman, Cameron Clyne confirmed the ARU had turned down the multi-million offer.​

​

“We were genuinely appreciative of Andrew’s generous offer to back the Western Force and Australian Rugby, however, given the position we are in we are unable to work towards retaining five teams in Super Rugby," he said. "We are at the final stages of this process and Australian Rugby’s constituents have voted to reduce Australia’s Super Rugby representation to four teams and we have made commitments to SANZAAR.​

“We were asked about the possibilities of retaining the Western Force in a 16-team Super Rugby competition, however a 16-team competition was eliminated by SANZAAR during its review process based on a number of factors. These factors included the extensive cost and limited appeal of a 16-team round-robin competition, player welfare issues due to extra travel requirements, and the loss of popular home and away ‘derbies’ in each country.​

But today in the Supreme Court we learn this:
But the changes to the SANZAAR broadcasting agreement did not rule out five teams from Australia continuing to play in the competition and should not have triggered the termination of the contract with Western Force, he said.
"It used to say no fewer than 18 teams. It now says no fewer than 15 teams," Mr Newlinds said.
"It used to say at least five from Australia. It now says at least four from Australia.
"Well, five is at least four."

This one fits in nicely too QH (just in case you missed it)
That Clyne is a piece of work.
Thanks to GaffaChino on Force thread

RugbyWA is incredibly disappointed to hear that yesterday’s meeting between Mr Andrew Forrest and ARU Chairman Cameron Clyne and directors Brett Robinson and John Eales failed to reach a positive outcome. Particularly given Mr Forrest’s incredibly generous offer to donate many tens of millions to support community rugby as well as financially underwrite the Western Force.



Further, commitments to RugbyWA Board Member David Vaux on Sunday afternoon by Cameron Clyne, that the ARU would accept the retention of five Australian teams provided Andrew Forrest financially underwrote the Western Force and make a significant contribution to Australian rugby.


RugbyWA Chairman of the Board Tony Howarth says: “It is now clear that the ARU did not attend the meeting in Adelaide with the intention of resolving a mutually acceptable agreement, as said previously by ARU Chairman Cameron Clyne.”


RugbyWA is adamant that if the ARU can afford to refuse approximately $50 million to support grass roots rugby then the decision to cut an Australian franchise cannot logically be based on the ARU’s financial position. Therefor the basis on which the ARU has decided to remove a team needs to be fully explained.


Further, we understand that during the meeting the ARU Directors were adamant that a Senate Inquiry as requested by Senator Linda Reynolds and supported by Federal Sports Minister Greg Hunt, had no place or role to play in Australian Rugby.


RugbyWA strongly supports the call for a Senate Inquiry based on the ARU’s misinformation as to their financial position and their lack of information available for the reasons for removing the Western Force.


Today, RugbyWA has been granted leave to appeal the Australian Rugby Union’s (ARU) decision to cut the Western Force from Super Rugby next year. The decision was made by New South Wales Supreme Court judge David Hammerschlag.

https://www.rugbywa.asn.au/news/rugbywa-statement/

 

[lou75]

This situation is becoming breathtakingly abhorrent. The ARU have the WF licence and as such are custodians of that licence. As such, the ARU have the responsibility to look after that licence to safeguard the licence.
The fact that at the eleventh hour the ARU decided it would be too expensive to continue with the expanded SANZAAR arrangement / or that it would dilute our player base / or whatever reason they are clutching to on the day is neither here nor there.
The fact remains, as custodians of the licence, the ARU are charged with keeping it safe until such time as RugbyWA could take it back - and that's now.
The financial mismanagement of Super Rugby and playing performance of the Australian Super Rugby teams is a completely different matter, one that the ARU should be held to account for - Rob Clarke COO has gone, Todd Day, CFO has gone, Bill Pulver CEO is set to go, it's time for some of the coaches to go and its certainly time for the ARU Board to go.
The Western Force should stay since clearly, the reasons for cutting them is not about the money, it is not about diluting our player base since a lot of talent is coming out of WA ( the only team with a decent coach).

 

[lou75]

I see on the Imperium website that Andrew Cox has sold the TGI Friday's franchise - it seems that all of his business interests are going under - great work Clarke and Pulver re the due diligence you should have performed regarding who to sell the Rebels licence to.

 

[chibimatty]

...limited appeal of a 16-team round-robin competition...and the loss of popular home and away ‘derbies’ in each country...

I find this interesting, I would consider instead, that we just have the Australian group with six teams instead of five. Lessen the out-of-conference games for the Australian teams, but increase the number of NZ-SA inter-conference games to balance out the schedule. That would accommodate the Force and give us more of the NZ vs SA match-ups that the NZRU say is their priority. This would also lessen the time-difference games that the SunWolves would have to play in. It may even open up the possibility of the SA teams flying from Perth to Tokyo, so that the SunWolves don't have to play any of their home games away from Japan.

NZ group - 4 home in conference, 4 away in conference, 5 vs SA, 3 vs Aus - 16 matches

SA group - 4 home in conference, 4 away in conference, 5 vs NZ, 3 vs Aus - 16 matches

Aus group - 5 home in conference, 5 away in conference, 3 vs NZ, 3 vs SA - 16 matches

We could play under the concession that we would still have the same amount of finals spots, despite having a larger group than the others, as a trade-off for Australia retaining it's five teams.

 

[ForceFan]

This situation is becoming breathtakingly abhorrent. The ARU have the WF licence and as such are custodians of that licence. As such, the ARU have the responsibility to look after that licence to safeguard the licence...............................................
..................................................................
The Western Force should stay since clearly, the reasons for cutting them is not about the money, it is not about diluting our player base since a lot of talent is coming out of WA ( the only team with a decent coach).

Thanks lou47
The situation in a nutshell.......and why the West has rallied to expose this injustice which is certainly NOT in the best interests of Rugby in Australia.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

This one fits in nicely too QH (just in case you missed it)

That Clyne is a piece of work.

Thanks to GaffaChino on Force thread



RugbyWA is incredibly disappointed to hear that yesterday’s meeting between Mr Andrew Forrest and ARU Chairman Cameron Clyne and directors Brett Robinson and John Eales failed to reach a positive outcome. Particularly given Mr Forrest’s incredibly generous offer to donate many tens of millions to support community rugby as well as financially underwrite the Western Force.







Further, commitments to RugbyWA Board Member David Vaux on Sunday afternoon by Cameron Clyne, that the ARU would accept the retention of five Australian teams provided Andrew Forrest financially underwrote the Western Force and make a significant contribution to Australian rugby.





RugbyWA Chairman of the Board Tony Howarth says: “It is now clear that the ARU did not attend the meeting in Adelaide with the intention of resolving a mutually acceptable agreement, as said previously by ARU Chairman Cameron Clyne.”





RugbyWA is adamant that if the ARU can afford to refuse approximately $50 million to support grass roots rugby then the decision to cut an Australian franchise cannot logically be based on the ARU’s financial position. Therefor the basis on which the ARU has decided to remove a team needs to be fully explained.





Further, we understand that during the meeting the ARU Directors were adamant that a Senate Inquiry as requested by Senator Linda Reynolds and supported by Federal Sports Minister Greg Hunt, had no place or role to play in Australian Rugby.





RugbyWA strongly supports the call for a Senate Inquiry based on the ARU’s misinformation as to their financial position and their lack of information available for the reasons for removing the Western Force.





Today, RugbyWA has been granted leave to appeal the Australian Rugby Union’s (ARU) decision to cut the Western Force from Super Rugby next year. The decision was made by New South Wales Supreme Court judge David Hammerschlag.



https://www.rugbywa.asn.au/news/rugbywa-statement/

"Further, commitments to RugbyWA Board Member David Vaux on Sunday afternoon by Cameron Clyne, that the ARU would accept the retention of five Australian teams provided Andrew Forrest financially underwrote the Western Force and make a significant contribution (READ ANDREW PLEASE OFFER A REVISED OFFER OF $100m AS NO-ONE EVER ACCEPTS A FIRST UP OFFER) to Australian rugby."

 

[Brumby Runner]

Our depth at 9 is really quite poor. I can't believe we're at the point that Phipps is our best option, but here we are.

The real issue is tht we don't know if he's our best option. Powell got about 10 minutes all up in the June test matches and wasn't given an opportunity to show if he's there or not. And has anyone enquired into the eligibility of Ruru? Powell was the stand out No 9 in the Aus Super Rugby franchises while Ruru finished the year very strongly. Phipps, otoh, spent most of the year behind Gordon at the Tahs, but suddenly he's our only option. More likely, he is just another one of Cheika's favourites who will always get the call up despite what he and others have been doing. Familiar?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't think our depth is poor. I think there is a gap at the top at the moment.

In QLD alone I am excited about the prospects around Tuttle, Sorovi, Fines-Leleiwasa, McDermott and Chapman. And that's without counting Frisby.

Gordon, Lucas, Ruru, Louwrens, Stirzaker, Longergan.

Plenty of young talent there. Of course Oz Rugby's challenge has recently being ensuring these talents continue to develop (as evidence in the seemingly declining abilities of the two Nicks - Frisby and Stirzaker).

RR, don't rate Powell?

 

[BLR]

"Further, commitments to RugbyWA Board Member David Vaux on Sunday afternoon by Cameron Clyne, that the ARU would accept the retention of five Australian teams provided Andrew Forrest financially underwrote the Western Force and make a significant contribution (READ ANDREW PLEASE OFFER A REVISED OFFER OF $100m AS NO-ONE EVER ACCEPTS A FIRST UP OFFER) to Australian rugby."

See, with all the cards being stacked against the ARU as of late I would see this going the other way as far as funding to the ARU themselves are concerned.

The leverage the ARU have you'd think is slowly being lost the longer the appeals decision goes on, the senate inquiry process gets closer, the legal suit of the WA Government goes on, the lies the board has made comes to light(potentially bringing more lawsuits)

Real stupid decision, free money for being completely inept. Obviously a caveat was the board would have to get off that teat once and for all.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

NZ group - 4 home in conference, 4 away in conference, 5 vs SA, 3 vs Aus - 16 matches

SA group - 4 home in conference, 4 away in conference, 5 vs NZ, 3 vs Aus - 16 matches

Aus group - 5 home in conference, 5 away in conference, 3 vs NZ, 3 vs SA - 16 matches

Are you sure those numbers add up? Off the top of my head it looks like NZ & SA x30 v Australia but Australia x36 v NZ & SA?

 

[D-Box]

Having seen the wallabies side for Bled 2 Chekia is obviously working from the inside to inspire an overthrow of the ARU board after they refuse to sack him

Sent from my HTC_0PJA10 using Tapatalk

 

[boyo]

Yeah, "the Crown" is not a single entity. This is not always understood.

There is "the Crown in the right of the Government of Western Australia" which is separate to "the Crown in right of the Commonwealth of Australia".

Guess which one generally owns the mineral rights. An exception is the offshore continental shelf and EEZ, where the Commonwealth has sovereign rights in respect of minerals.

I could go on and take in topics such as the MRRT but this place is for talking about rugby.

As opposed to cricket, cycling, etc.?

 

[Dave Beat]

WA makes ARU bank rupt.
Governance changes.
Foundations

 

[wamberal]

WA makes ARU bank rupt.
Governance changes.
Foundations

Unforeseen consequences. Could be good. Could be disastrous.


What would major sponsors do, stick around in the hope that something better might miraculously rise from the ashes?


Lots of people love to bag those who have put their time into the game, voluntarily, at the upper levels. But the game does actually need volunteers at all levels, not just the wonderful people at the bottom, but some (gasp) who have the time and ability to get involved at other levels.


Who would be bothered?

 

[dru]

Unforeseen consequences. Could be good. Could be disastrous.

Agreed. The alternative - business as usual - leaves us with the known consequence of disaster.

Not a difficult choice.

 

[TOCC]

Lots of people love to bag those who have put their time into the game, voluntarily, at the upper levels. But the game does actually need volunteers at all levels, not just the wonderful people at the bottom, but some (gasp) who have the time and ability to get involved at other levels.
?

Bit of a stretch to call someone on $500k a 'volunteer' and frankly it's a little insulting to the true volunteers of the game

 

[TOCC]

Bit off topic, but what's the thoughts on the ARU funding a National Schoolboys Championshop series.

Australian Rugby needs to retain its footing within its current schools systems, and within budgetary and timeframe constraints. So post GPS/AIC or whatever season they may be in, the top 1st XV teams from comp play each other in a short round robin series.

At worst, you could have one off matches between the teams below to offer some form of national champions trophy..

QLD GPS 1st vs NSW AAGPS
QLD GPS 2nd vs NSW CAS
QLD AIC vs NSW ISA

 

[cyclopath]

Unforeseen consequences. Could be good. Could be disastrous.


What would major sponsors do, stick around in the hope that something better might miraculously rise from the ashes?


Lots of people love to bag those who have put their time into the game, voluntarily, at the upper levels. But the game does actually need volunteers at all levels, not just the wonderful people at the bottom, but some (gasp) who have the time and ability to get involved at other levels.


Who would be bothered?

You wouldn't think so. I think this is a big issue with this whole topic, and falls into the "where does the pot of money come from" bag.
Despite what some think, I don't think Andrew Forrest is going to be a Kerry Packer - for starters, Rugby has never been in the national psyche as much as cricket. His support for the Force is great, I don't see it being larger than that, so they need some big sponsors, as it seems likely broadcast money will be far less than now, not more, if we walk away from SANZAAR and start up our own show.

 

[kiap]

the top 1st XV teams from comp play each other in a short round robin series.

Think I'd be against national funding for matches between rep sides from AAGPS, CAS, GPS(Q), AIC, and the like.

How would it be better than what there is now, with state/territory teams in the national comp? (and the above rep sides playing in their respective state trials).

 

[sidelineview]

Bit off topic, but what's the thoughts on the ARU funding a National Schoolboys Championshop series.

Australian Rugby needs to retain its footing within its current schools systems, and within budgetary and timeframe constraints. So post GPS/AIC or whatever season they may be in, the top 1st XV teams from comp play each other in a short round robin series.

At worst, you could have one off matches between the teams below to offer some form of national champions trophy..

QLD GPS 1st vs NSW AAGPS
QLD GPS 2nd vs NSW CAS
QLD AIC vs NSW ISA

Good idea. As curtain raisers