AUSTRALIAN MEDIA NOT HELPING (Including you Scarfman).

[Muttonbird]

For the record Scarf, I don't care what he says, your voice gets me hawt

Since Scarfman's fishing video is likely to attract a few new visitors to G 'n' R Rugby don't you think you'd better keep your feelings for him quiet? Or is it unrequited love, now that Scarfie's running with the big dogs, and you need to shout it from the rooftops?

Pretty scathing article there. Lewis not happy that "Scarf" doesn't use his real name but none of us keyboard warriors like doing that do we?

Couple of my favorites from Lewis' article:

"(Dwyer's) was a conspiracy theory to rival that of the Kennedy assassination."

"Green and Gold (where), throwing bricks at the All Blacks is encouraged."

But the quote that gets to the heart of all this I reckon came from Spiro Zavos: "It was noticeable that the All Blacks and McCaw contested far fewer rucks and mauls than the Wallabies with their hands. More generally, they tried to counter-ruck by driving the Wallabies off the ball. The tactic worked ...".

That Zavos gets straight to the actual point is not surprising since he is an actual analytical journalist, unencumbered by some bad shopping experience in NZ (Bills) or by the ghosts of defeats past (Dwyer).

 

[Scarfman]

Oh God, here I am again. Just wanted to say that it's hilarious that Kiwis are touting Spiro Zavos as more knowledgeable than Bob Dwyer. Absolutely mad!

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Fucking hell, Kiwis can be such whingers - check this guy out! http://www.nzherald.co.nz/all-blacks/news/article.cfm?c_id=116&objectid=10667930

For the record Scarf, I don't care what he says, your voice gets me hawt

Oh, the irony!!

And Scarf... very thin view to look at it there. Personally, I think Zavos point was that perhaps the AB's changed their tactics because of all the media hoopla (which this site is partially responsible for) & then we still managed to win. Good players can do that.

As for Dwyer... Of course he knows more, but he's had nothing original to say for years. By the way, here's my guess at what his next column contains.

The good stuff in rugby - he was coaching teams to do this years ago.....
Wallabies - not happy with 3 or 4 players who the whole world can see are struggling a bit
The AB's.. playing great, but <instert pot shot>.

Zavos, for all his many faults, at least adds some variability to his comments & occasionally, even some subjectivity!

Glad it's the Bok's vs Wallabies this week, so we can see some good clean good natured rugby played by upstanding people of the highest moral order, instead of those nasty cheating horrible All Blacks. The game is better off without them, don't you think?

 

[DPK]

 

[cyclopath]

Mutton bird and MR - a quick question.
Do you think there is any less brick-throwing or one-eyed analysis of the Wallabies on a NZ-centric forum? I know you guys all like to think of yourselves as the most most even-handed of fans, you are deluded if you think the parochialism here is any worse than on other sites towards their team. There is more grudging respect here towards the ABs than you would ever find elsewhere for the Wallabies, where an irrational "Deans-hating" spite is the general vibe.
I love having posters here from all over, but don't think the ABs are above reproach just because you worship at that altar; lots of people have other views.

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Cyclo - of course not! And to be perfectly honest, I don't like feeling the need to have to defend the AB's from criticism on this site - it's not actually why I joined. I joined because I was looking for outside views on the AB's (and boy have I found them), catching up on the thoughts of those left (or at least reduced the amount of time spent at) the TSF & also to meet some more passionate rugby fans.

HOWEVER, the campaign on here, by video evidence published & the subsequent global promotion of this & that stupid ridiculous one-eyed, lets leave all the other facts out of it Yellow Card per penalties stat, has really got on my goat. I want to walk away, but like flies to shit, I just can't. Maybe, I need to be banned or something - not sure! Up to you lot!

I most certainly don't think the parochialism on here is any worse than the TSF, definately not. But I've never seen TSF be such a driving force behind a campaign as the one mentioned above. I think it's the sort of thing which can turn the general good nature of rugby rivalry, quickly into a football style. It maybe the way a few of you felt after a few years on TSF, and I can understand where your coming from.

 

[DPK]

Cyclo - of course not! And to be perfectly honest, I don't like feeling the need to have to defend the AB's from criticism on this site - it's not actually why I joined. I joined because I was looking for outside views on the AB's (and boy have I found them), catching up on the thoughts of those left (or at least reduced the amount of time spent at) the TSF & also to meet some more passionate rugby fans.

HOWEVER, the campaign on here, by video evidence published & the subsequent global promotion of this & that stupid ridiculous one-eyed, lets leave all the other facts out of it Yellow Card per penalties stat, has really got on my goat. I want to walk away, but like flies to shit, I just can't. Maybe, I need to be banned or something - not sure! Up to you lot!

I most certainly don't think the parochialism on here is any worse than the TSF, definately not. But I've never seen TSF be such a driving force behind a campaign as the one mentioned above. I think it's the sort of thing which can turn the general good nature of rugby rivalry, quickly into a football style. It maybe the way a few of you felt after a few years on TSF, and I can understand where your coming from.

I hate to cross the floor, but the recent campaign, IMO, has really darkened the tone of the site and increased friction, making G&GR not the fertile environment for discussion it was before.

 

[Scarfman]

MR, the closest thing I have seen to football-like behaviour is Richie's comments this week that you'd be a fool to not cheat as much as you can get away with.

I think I speak for everyone at G&GR: Richie is one the greats. At his peak, I reckon only Campo would rival him as a rugby player. But I can't be happy for him when what he is good at ISN'T the in-and-away, ISN'T dominant tackles, ISN'T scummaging power, or anything like that, but IS finding a way to come in at the side, lie over the ball, and get way with it. THAT is his genius. It infuriates me that he isn't penalised more, and you're going to have to live with that fact.

Kiwis, of course, don't see it that way. They either believe that what he is doing is legal, or that he is simply the best at a game called "Playing to the Ref". That's fine.

Above all else, I think I also speak for everyone at G&GR when I say that it's always good to run into a Kiwi or a Saffer, because you know you'll get to talk about rugby, which is more than you can say for 90% of Australians. I really hope that other nationalities keep coming to this site, because that's one of rugby's core values. We can surely agree on that, even when we disagree about Richie McCaw.

Unless someone has something desperately urgent to say, let's close the thread here, OK?

 

[RedsHappy]

....Unless someone has something desperately urgent to say, let's close the thread here, OK?

Scarf: I would only like to add one thing, and I think it's important: whatever people think of your now-famous/now-infamous vid, there has been an immense amount of verbal traffic back along the essential lines: ah, but the Boks and Wallabies do just the same thing, don't you know! However, to the best of my knowledge, no one has produced a single, properly commented and analysed vid the rough equivalent of yours to establish the veracity of that counter-assertion. The proper balance in the entire debate would be established by such an output. For me, simply asserting in text bias and one-eyedness is not a substantive or completed argument when another party has at least offered a serious and detailed set of vid-based observations, it cannot be.

So, my suggestion is this: could Muttonbird and/or MR perhaps get on a Mac (iMovie does the job nicely) or a PC and make a solid 'counter' vid that would demonstrate the validity of their argument that you/GAGR are inherently one-eyed in all of this? That would be a progressive, rather than regressive, way of completing this argument. In the absence of that counter-balancing and detailed work effort, you Scarf will retain 'the high ground' on this matter, and rightly (for now).

 

[MajorlyRagerly]

Scarf - fair enough, ok to shake hands and move on as there is frankly no middle ground to be found.

RedsHappy - no interest. As far as I'm concerned, anybody who watches the match with both eyes open, can see what is happening on both sides & prepared to accept it as part of the game. I feel no need to sit down for about 6 hours to work out how to do that stuff, in order to reverse prove some theory generated by a one-sided, propaganda style video as the one produced.

 

[Mel_Don]

Is poor spectatorship contributing to the decline in viewing ratings?

I'm just interested to know people's thoughts on this... Do you think the spectators and confusing rules and regulations has been a key reason to rugby's decline in consumer viewing? Rugby can't even make it to free to air television... maybe we need some good solid footy shows like league.. ie. the Matty Johns show to take viewers through the confusing steps of the game?

 

[cyclopath]

Happy for it be locked; also very good point DPK.
And MR, would not be happy if you went, I like the counter viewpoints. Even Muttonbird's!!

 

[RugbyFuture]

Mel Don

spectators not as ravenous as league or afl fans cetainly contribute, boring crowds etc. our commentators, although i think somewhat more respectful than other codes, dont talk it up as much (eg. every tackle is the biggest and best tackle they've ever seen) rules in reality dont affect it, bad media does. no need for low brow shows like the mungo johns show though.

 

[Scarfman]

Welcome Mel. Not sure.

Major - my video was not one-sided or propaganda.

Yay! The last word!