Australia vs South Africa - Brisbane 7th Sept 2013

[lewisr]

Jesus Christ can we please get over the fucking Quade beating? Did any of you actually watch the game last night? Or did you just come to the conclusion that we lost, so it must be Quades fault!!! There are a few on here that will agree that he was far from our worst performer, if not one of the better ones. He mixed it up between taking it to the line, offloading to his backs early and kicking both tactically and for his wingers/ full backs. He created line breaks and frankly did the best you could behind a pack going backwards.

This was far from a single player's issues, it was the whole team and to say he "should never see a gold jersey again!" is just scapegoating when there are others who should be taking just as much, if not more, blame for what happened.

For the record, I don't think he was any better or any worse than To'omua in the second Bledisloe. I think there is still a major selection dilemma there because both have positives and both offer something to the team. Unfortunately, we will NEVER know who is the right choice untill we see them playing behind a pack that at least has parity. It really is as simple as that.

 

[PommyPowerhouse3]

This was far from a single player's issues, it was the whole team and to say he "should never see a gold jersey again!" is just scapegoating when there are others who should be taking just as much, if not more, blame for what happened.

For the record, I don't think he was any better or any worse than To'omua in the second Bledisloe. I think there is still a major selection dilemma there because both have positives and both offer something to the team. Unfortunately, we will NEVER know who is the right choice until we see them playing behind a pack that at least has parity. It really is as simple as that.

I totally agree with everything you said. Quade, in my opinion was one of the better players in the backline. I would continue to pick him over To'omua until To'omua gets more experience at test level.

I think that the down fall for the wallabies was that they took the points to often instead of backing themselves to score tries. A prime example was when we were piling the pressure got a penalty 5m out and we took the point instead of the quick tap and a possible 7 points

 

[Slim 293]

Jesus Christ can we please get over the fucking Quade beating? Did any of you actually watch the game last night? Or did you just come to the conclusion that we lost, so it must be Quades fault!!! There are a few on here that will agree that he was far from our worst performer, if not one of the better ones. He mixed it up between taking it to the line, offloading to his backs early and kicking both tactically and for his wingers/ full backs. He created line breaks and frankly did the best you could behind a pack going backwards.

This was far from a single player's issues, it was the whole team and to say he "should never see a gold jersey again!" is just scapegoating when there are others who should be taking just as much, if not more, blame for what happened.

For the record, I don't think he was any better or any worse than To'omua in the second Bledisloe. I think there is still a major selection dilemma there because both have positives and both offer something to the team. Unfortunately, we will NEVER know who is the right choice untill we see them playing behind a pack that at least has parity. It really is as simple as that.

Quade was just average........ not our worst, but hardly one of our best........

The issue was that there were a number of one-eyed supporters up north calling for his selection off the back of To'omua's much improved, and pretty solid performance against the AB's in his second test........

It was somehow believed that Quade would instantly improve our attack, and that somehow his absence was responsible for Genia's poor form (I mean, WTF?!)...............

I think last night disproved both myths..........

Obviously our main issues are up front, but Quade was not an improvement from the previous test..........

 

[RoffsChoice]

I thought Cooper did well with the garbage he got from numbers 1-9. He and Lilo we obviously trying and, for my mind, doing the right thing at the right time, with no support. They were doomed from the get go but tried anyway.

To numbers 4-8, ATTENDANCE AT THE BREAKDOWN IS NOT OPTIONAL!

 

[Slim 293]

I thought Cooper did well with the garbage he got from numbers 1-9.

But even when we get decent ball we're still going sideways....... still relying on individual efforts to break the gain line........

Our backline may as well have just been Lilo, Folau and JOC (James O'Connor)......... the only 3 really offering anything at the moment out there.........

 

[RoffsChoice]

Yeah, he did screw up a couple of times and I would prefer To'omua starts next week, but I'm also completely fine with Cooper going again.

 

[TSR]

If Quade's test career is done one the back of last nights form then we are looking for about 11-12 new test players.

 

[Quick Hands]

Amongst much discussion about the makeup of the 23 and the coaching, I think the most glaring issue exists in the process long before you even think about who is going to be in your 23. It's quite simply characterised by a couple of quotes from fairly important figures:




and



We will never ever consistently beat the ABs or the Boks whilst there is a dual focus on "entertaining" or "running rugby". Do these people not actually watch the sport? Fans of winning sides are very easily entertained.

Do people think the boks and the ABs sit around worrying about how they will win whilst entertaining, or how they will win whilst playing "running rugby"?

For the foreseeable future, and until we have a decent winning record again, I think they should big the best 10 man rugby side and make priority number 1 "play the game in the opposition half". None of this running the ball from your own 22 bullshit. It's very difficult to score points from your own half. Keeping the pill in the oppo half gives you plenty of opportunities to score (as turnovers are common in rugby, unlike rugby league which appears to have infected the strategy of all and sundry), and gives your opposition very few opportunities to score.

Start winning and the public will come around, regardless of how little of the mythical "running rugby" you play. Keep losing and they'll remain disinterested, regardless of how much "running rugby" you play.

Running rugby must be the most misunderstood concept in Australian sport. What is doesn't mean is that you never kick and/or you chuck the ball wide no matter what the circumstance. It's built on a dominant forward pack, supported by skilful backs. You can't have 1 without the other.

In order to be able to play any sort of positive/entertaining/running/expansive game, the team first needs to secure its own ball from lineouts and and scrums. So, this idea of picking tight forwards who can't fulfil that role but are "good around the field" is the first problem. Until that is addressed, there is going to be little improvement against the top teams. Once you've sorted that out, then you need to secure your own ball at the tackle (all 15 players have a role in this). When and only when you have these 2 things sorted out, you can play decent rugby. If you can't sort those things out then the type of game or tactics you employ are secondary, bordering on irrelevent.

 

[Tomikin]

Jesus Christ can we please get over the fucking Quade beating? Did any of you actually watch the game last night? Or did you just come to the conclusion that we lost, so it must be Quades fault!!! There are a few on here that will agree that he was far from our worst performer, if not one of the better ones. He mixed it up between taking it to the line, offloading to his backs early and kicking both tactically and for his wingers/ full backs. He created line breaks and frankly did the best you could behind a pack going backwards.

This was far from a single player's issues, it was the whole team and to say he "should never see a gold jersey again!" is just scapegoating when there are others who should be taking just as much, if not more, blame for what happened.

For the record, I don't think he was any better or any worse than To'omua in the second Bledisloe. I think there is still a major selection dilemma there because both have positives and both offer something to the team. Unfortunately, we will NEVER know who is the right choice untill we see them playing behind a pack that at least has parity. It really is as simple as that.

I agree alot he wasnt bad he was actually good.. but he got picked over To'omua for no reason.... i dont think it was justified.. pick a 5/8 stick with him confidence maybe the difference.. neither now has any..


Other then that.. we wont have a dominate pack.. so dont we need to find the best player behind a beaten pack.. i really think white needs a run he hits and passes and has a massive kick... if we cant beat them with skill .. white, mogg can out kick them..

winning is winning

on a side note.. the bok are good .. we got beaten by a good team.. thats ok

 

[Nathan's]

Quade was far from the best. Yes, he may have improved but he still runs across field, not what we need from a 10. I noticed a few saying Cooper should start until To'omua gets more experience. How is he supposed to get more experience when he's sitting on the bench after 2 of the hardest games he's ever played. One of the Wallabies main problems ARE selections. We can't stick with the same team, we have to chop and change it every game (injuries aside). There was absolutely no need to bring in Cooper. If you they are no better than each other, why not keep the 10 you started in both of the previous games? Why are the ABs so consistent - they keep the same team. Why not play:

9. White
10. To'omua
12. Lilo

They've played together throughout the whole super rugby season, and the Brumbies went to the final. At least let White start the first 40, he's an excellent halfback and deserves his chance. McKenzie did that with Mogg, but unfortunately Mogg was lacking in confidence, but can still impact the game off the bench. To'omua and Mogg are in the same boat, dropped after playing their first 2 full games in Wallaby gold against the best team in the world, how are they supposed to improve when the game after they sit on the bench for the full 80.

 

[jollyswagman]

I agree alot he wasnt bad he was actually good.. but he got picked over To'omua for no reason.. i dont think it was justified.. pick a 5/8 stick with him confidence maybe the difference.. neither now has any..

Honestly Tomikin, how the hell do you know that he was "picked for no reason." What a ridiculous thing to say. I am sure Link had a few reasons he selected QC (Quade Cooper). The only thing you can be sure of is that things did not play out the way Link would have wanted them to but other than that you need to accept the fact that are simply spectators and will never fully understand all of the "best intentions" and reasoning why a certain team is picked. I try not to bite and "play the man" on the boards but if you watched the first to matches against the Darkness, and can't see any reason to try and change the complexion of our team, then I think you need to study up on your rugby.

 

[TSR]

In order to be able to play any sort of positive/entertaining/running/expansive game, the team first needs to secure its own ball from lineouts and and scrums. So, this idea of picking tight forwards who can't fulfil that role but are "good around the field" is the first problem. Until that is addressed, there is going to be little improvement against the top teams. Once you've sorted that out, then you need to secure your own ball at the tackle (all 15 players have a role in this). When and only when you have these 2 things sorted out, you can play decent rugby. If you can't sort those things out then the type of game or tactics you employ are secondary, bordering on irrelevent.

It is just not that simple - if you have players who are great at set peice but no good around the park you are equally doomed. Otherwise you'd better score all your points off first phase. Last night it was the breakdown where we were really killed. At the end of the day, your pack has to be able to do both.

Unfortunately last night we did neither.

 

[Quick Hands]

Quade was far from the best. Yes, he may have improved but he still runs across field, not what we need from a 10. I noticed a few saying Cooper should start until To'omua gets more experience. How is he supposed to get more experience when he's sitting on the bench after 2 of the hardest games he's ever played. One of the Wallabies main problems ARE selections. We can't stick with the same team, we have to chop and change it every game (injuries aside). There was absolutely no need to bring in Cooper. If you they are no better than each other, why not keep the 10 you started in both of the previous games.

You're spot on. The selection changes took us backwards from the 2nd AB test.

 

[jollyswagman]

If you they are no better than each other, why not keep the 10 you started in both of the previous games?

Simple.....because they are very different players and bring a very different style of play to the table. If we had played better during the first two matches then your argument may hold a little more water, but sadly we didn't play well and Link needed to try something different.

 

[jollyswagman]

At least let White start the first 40, he's an excellent halfback and deserves his chance. McKenzie did that with Mogg, but unfortunately Mogg was lacking in confidence, but can still impact the game off the bench. To'omua and Mogg are in the same boat, dropped after playing their first 2 full games in Wallaby gold against the best team in the world, how are they supposed to improve when the game after they sit on the bench for the full 80.

I too feel strongly that White deserves a chance and when he does geta chance, he will have an immediate impact. Not so much on an individually brilliant level but in a team sense. He has the hunger and niggle that is lacking right now. Genia needs a rest and has a massive question mark hovering over his head for mine. Sadly, I think Link appointing him as Captain last week is a good indication he is going nowhere.

 

[Quick Hands]

It is just not that simple - if you have players who are great at set peice but no good around the park you are equally doomed. Otherwise you'd better score all your points off first phase. Last night it was the breakdown where we were really killed. At the end of the day, your pack has to be able to do both.

Unfortunately last night we did neither.

I never said it was simple, I was just putting it in simple terms as I don't have 10 pages to write an essay on rugby.

If you can't secure quality possession from your own scrums and lineouts the rest is irrelevent, we'll always be chasing our tails as we are now. In the short term, we may have to live with picking some tight forwards who aren't as good around the field to win the ball. It's a choice. For some time we've taken the pick the players who can contribute around the field option and it's been a spectacular failure. Maybe it's time to take the other choice?

EDIT: The Boks seem to go ok with taking the other choice.

 

[Sully]

Quade was fine. No better or worse than To'omua. And anyone advocating anything different is pushing a personal bias.

 

[TSR]

For some time we've taken the pick the players who can contribute around the field option and it's been a spectacular failure. Maybe it's time to take the other choice?

Well, I certainly can't argue with that.

 

[Richo]

I don't know why we're even talking about anyone from 10-15.

We will not win -- or even consistently compete -- against New Zealand and South Africa if we get smashed in the forwards. It doesn't matter how brilliant Cooper, To'omua, Folau, O'Connor or any of them are. Our forwards must be better and Genia must find form.

We got beaten in the collisions, at the breakdown and in the set piece. Those are the areas that matter right now.

 

[Richo]

If you can't secure quality possession from your own scrums and lineouts the rest is irrelevent, we'll always be chasing our tails as we are now. In the short term, we may have to live with picking some tight forwards who aren't as good around the field to win the ball. It's a choice. For some time we've taken the pick the players who can contribute around the field option and it's been a spectacular failure. Maybe it's time to take the other choice?

I cannot like this enough. Meat, then gravy.