Australia vs South Africa - Brisbane 7th Sept 2013

[Groucho]

^^^ I agree but just thinking outside the square. As you say, expect the unexpected!

It would certainly be ironic if Deans, oops I mean Link, who was suddenly enlightened of the need for Slipper at THP against the AIGs, having not picked him there for the Reds, becomes similarly enlightened to the need for Cooper at 15 against the Boks. I hear James Horwill is potentially quite a dab hand at at 12 against the Pumas.

 

[Groucho]

I guess I'm not very good at writing sarcasm, and you don't like the fact of someone talking about your belovered brumbies, Which are my second favourite teem. I also have written on a few occasions how much of a fan I am of many of the players, especially mogg and also agreeing with huge when he came in defence of To'omua in a podcast

And my "to many brumbies" comment was a dig at the "to many tahs" in the wallabies people also whinged about. Again, a failed attempt of sarcasm on my behalf but you were the only one to ever comment and bring it up again.

I would useally have left this alone and not bothered with a reply. But you have got me all wrong slim and you are sticking up for your brumbies players in the team which is fantastic.

But this still dosent change the fact that I (me) would much rather see To'omua benched as I am over him. It's the Beauty about a public forum and 1000s opinions.

I hope To'omua does fine his form and sitting on the bench might just do that.

Don't worry biggsy , Slim is insane.

 

[biggsy]

And this has turned into yet another Reds v Brumbies thread.

Unfortunately, neither group of supporters can just forget which domestic team they support and put faith in the blokes Link chooses.

Can we put state rivalry aside for maybe 5 seconds and just support the bloody Wallabies!

Makes you feel any better, of the 3 Tahs in the team They are best performers
Hooper and ACC doing very well and Izzy just need the ball more.

 

[emuarse]

It's all very interesting about who will play where for the Wallabies on Saturday night.
But I do notice that Link has gone into explanation that he will pick the 15 players he feels are needed to beat the Springbok. Also that they have closely analysed the players from their performances in the first two tests where he has been the Wallabies coach.
Unlike a lot of the armchair critics on this forum thread, or rugby personnel with Super 15 interests, he is not into 'favorites', as for instance Larkham is when he cites To'omua and Mog should stay in the side.
Link won't necessarily always make the right decision as to who plays where, but he along with his support staff, and their combined knowledge of the player's relative weaknesses and strengths, plus what their particular strategy is to be against a particular team, is the best equipped to make team selections.
We don't yet know who will be in the 15 yet for Saturday night, but whoever they are, they will have my total support as I believe they will be the players most suited to defeat the Springboks according to a game plan!

 

[KOB1987]

It's all very interesting about who will play where for the Wallabies on Saturday night.
But I do notice that Link has gone into explanation that he will pick the 15 players he feels are needed to beat the Springbok. Also that they have closely analysed the players from their performances in the first two tests where he has been the Wallabies coach.
Unlike a lot of the armchair critics on this forum thread, or rugby personnel with Super 15 interests, he is not into 'favorites', as for instance Larkham is when he cites To'omua and Mog should stay in the side.
Link won't necessarily always make the right decision as to who plays where, but he along with his support staff, and their combined knowledge of the player's relative weaknesses and strengths, plus what their particular strategy is to be against a particular team, is the best equipped to make team selections.
We don't yet know who will be in the 15 yet for Saturday night, but whoever they are, they will have my total support as I believe they will be the players most suited to defeat the Springboks according to a game plan!

I am overall a fan of that concept, however I think that at some point we need to settle on a fixed 23 (barring enforced changes) and then modestly change the run on 15 v the 'finishers' tailored to the opposition. I think we all agree the Mogg experiment has failed, the front row needs work, and that the back row is understrength due to injuries, but aside from that we are close to a final squad I reckon.

 

[Brumbieman]

Well. Larkham reckons that To'omua and Mogg just need a bit more time.

His comments regarding Mogg are a bit laughable. Whilst Mogg definitely needs to run the ball more, I would have thought his kicking and defence were far closer to the opposite of outstanding.



http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/u...e-given-time-says-larkham-20130901-2syxw.html

Watch it again, not outstanding, but certainly not "the opposite". At least in the 2nd test.

There were two average kicks late in the 2nd half (the penalty that didn't go out and the kick that didoutside the 22, both landing about 5m either side of the line) and the tackle he fell off at the end of the first half on Luatua, but I watched it closely and didn't see him miss any other tackles?

His kicking otherwise was pretty good and his chases after the kick were all excellent. Excellent work under the high ball, no real attempts to run the ball.

 

[Scotty]

Nah, it's just biggsy v Brumbies....

The irony.

The underlying messages in a lot of your posts - brumbies players were great, not enough brumbies - they should never be dropped!

 

[Scotty]

Based on reports, I think we are going to see this backline:

Genia
Cooper
JOC (James O'Connor)
Lilo
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
HB
Izzy

And it think it might just tear the Boks a new one. Very excited.

 

[Scotty]

Although JOC (James O'Connor) and Folau could be swapped. Cooper kicking to Folau on the wing and using JOC (James O'Connor) for inside balls and extra playmaker might be the driving factors.

 

[KOB1987]

I think the world wants to see Izzy at 15, let's see if Link does too

 

[Tomikin]

It's all very interesting about who will play where for the Wallabies on Saturday night.
But I do notice that Link has gone into explanation that he will pick the 15 players he feels are needed to beat the Springbok. Also that they have closely analysed the players from their performances in the first two tests where he has been the Wallabies coach.
Unlike a lot of the armchair critics on this forum thread, or rugby personnel with Super 15 interests, he is not into 'favorites', as for instance Larkham is when he cites To'omua and Mog should stay in the side.
Link won't necessarily always make the right decision as to who plays where, but he along with his support staff, and their combined knowledge of the player's relative weaknesses and strengths, plus what their particular strategy is to be against a particular team, is the best equipped to make team selections.
We don't yet know who will be in the 15 yet for Saturday night, but whoever they are, they will have my total support as I believe they will be the players most suited to defeat the Springboks according to a game plan!

So you call Larkham bias, But during the Lions Ewen was telling all and sundry to pick Quade.. Then only to pick someone else after he had left the Reds.

I think they should stick with the same team. Mostly because we are dropping people for getting beat by the All Blacks.. Its a smart move though if Ewen because if he had off lost the first 2 tests with Quade playing 5/8 it would probably have been the end for Quade

 

[chasmac]

Ok lets assume QC (Quade Cooper) is picked at 10. I have some questions about how the defense then works.
- Will he stay in the front line?
- If so, who will clean up his missed tackles?
- How will the back row be instructed to operate to cover this problem/perceived problem?

 

[chasmac]

Having written my previous post, I am now convinced that To'omua should start.
- He had an excellent game marking Steyn v's Bulls in Pretoria in the S15 Semi.
- His defense was good / dominant and he layed on the match winning try under some intense game pressure.
- He looked better in Bled 2 ( Taylor was only average for the AB's).

 

[Scotty]

To'omua looked pretty weak in defense in Bled 2 for mine. Certainly no better than Cooper in the Bleds.

Cooper will defend in the front line.

 

[light]

Makes you feel any better, of the 3 Tahs in the team They are best performers
Hooper and ACC doing very well and Izzy just need the ball more.

How could that make me feel better when I am constantly reminded that there are more Reds and Brumbies players in the side!!!?

Also AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) was completely invisible last test.

The wallabies will be far better when TPN and Palu return.

EDIT: Purely sarcasm...do not bite.

 

[Brumby Runner]

It's all very interesting about who will play where for the Wallabies on Saturday night.
But I do notice that Link has gone into explanation that he will pick the 15 players he feels are needed to beat the Springbok. Also that they have closely analysed the players from their performances in the first two tests where he has been the Wallabies coach.
Unlike a lot of the armchair critics on this forum thread, or rugby personnel with Super 15 interests, he is not into 'favorites', as for instance Larkham is when he cites To'omua and Mog should stay in the side.
Link won't necessarily always make the right decision as to who plays where, but he along with his support staff, and their combined knowledge of the player's relative weaknesses and strengths, plus what their particular strategy is to be against a particular team, is the best equipped to make team selections.
We don't yet know who will be in the 15 yet for Saturday night, but whoever they are, they will have my total support as I believe they will be the players most suited to defeat the Springboks according to a game plan!

I'm not sure how to take Link's utterances about the upcoming test against the Saffas. There has been a two week break after the second Bledisloe, in which you would think he would be putting all players through their paces to see who best fits the game plan, but it seems that most, maybe all of them, were given the first week off to go back to their homes and in some cases to play for their clubs (eg Kepu and Douglas). I know that I saw Christian at the Belconnen Mall last week, and there was talk about Nic White and others turning out for Queanbeyan last weekend, though that apparently didn't eventuate.

At this early stage of Link's tenure I would have expected him to take every opportunity to keep the squad together and drill them endlessly into his structures and game play. Looks to me that he will only have the usual time this week to get things sorted. Don't know if that will be enough.

 

[Slim 293]

The irony.

The underlying messages in a lot of your posts - brumbies players were great, not enough brumbies - they should never be dropped!

Yes, the ironing is simply delicious........

The only players I see being under threat are Alexander and Mogg....

 

[Slim 293]

Ok lets assume QC (Quade Cooper) is picked at 10. I have some questions about how the defense then works.
- Will he stay in the front line?
- If so, who will clean up his missed tackles?
- How will the back row be instructed to operate to cover this problem/perceived problem?

His kicking in that last test was also just as bad as anything Genia or Mogg put up.........

 

[chasmac]

His kicking in that last test was also just as bad as anything Genia or Mogg put up...

The question about who should start isn't as simple as who is better at certain skills. This is nothing new. How a player fits into the team overall is the real debate.
Cooper offers more on attack but needs help in defense. Does his ability to help Genia and Falou into the attack make up for needing 6 or 7 to stand beside him in defense?
Given the Saffas play 10 man rugby, defense at 5/8 becomes even more important. Will they win the gameline battle through simple one out rugby through the 10 channel? Will this yield say 2 - 3 tries if Cooper is the man?
On the other side of the ledger, can Cooper's passing game unlock Izzy for 2 ties or his running game create enough space for Will G to have a crack.

I would select To'omua against 10 man rugby.

 

[Hawko]

At this early stage of Link's tenure I would have expected him to take every opportunity to keep the squad together and drill them endlessly into his structures and game play. Looks to me that he will only have the usual time this week to get things sorted. Don't know if that will be enough.

I'm not sure why they had the whole week off; I would have liked to see them back together last Thursday for much the same reasons as you cited.

No one seems to be thinking about the type of game SA will bring or how that differs from NZ.

1. After seeing the hash we made of short bombs last time out, I would expect an absolute avalanche of them this week. I would also expect to see a repeat of the NZ strategy of kicking away from Izzy.
2. I would expect a huge focus on scrums and lineouts. Scrums to obtain penalties for Steyn, either to kick penalty goals or lineouts in the 22. Kicking to touch from general play to try and disrupt our lineout and force turnovers.
3. The chances of me winning lotto are better than the SA backs running the ball more than once each half.
4. The forward physicality will be intense and again verge on the illegal. You will note that the biters sentence was significantly reduced due to Etsebeth's "provocation". Bismark is starting and his work also is intensely physical.

In reaction to this I would focus on a gameplan of holding the ball and running it back, with Izzy at fullback and HB on the wing (Mogg to bench). This will help to tire the SA pack with a view to running over the top of them in the last 20. I would put Fardy at lock, Simmons to bench and bring in McCalman, who is a workhorse, which is what we will need with such a gameplan. Gill would come on after 50 to keep the workrate up, probably for Mowen, so you would have to make the Simmons/Fardy exchange at the same time. Alexander needs to be replaced, by Slipper or Kepu, I'm not sure which. We got monstered at THP last game and the Beast is no slouch.