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Australia v South Africa - Perth - 6 September 2014

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T

Train Without a Station

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I agree with Link's comments that last game was an aberration. It was an aberration in the performances of individuals. They have all consistently performed better than they did and therefore it's not unreasonable to expect them to do so this week. If that happened it would be a developing trend.
 

Blue

Andrew Slack (58)
Sigh. Is Strauss as good as Bismark (in the tight)? Define excellent? I'd imagine anybody who is a line out option at test level is excellent. How do they compare to players who are two or three inches taller, yet weigh the same such as our 4,5 and 6?

I think you are saying Bissie is better than Strauss in the trenches. Everyone would agree. All I think we are saying is Strauss is very good at it too but offers something different.

All I am saying is that Vermeulen has been a meat and potatoes target for the Boks, more than just an extra option to mix things up.

You seemed to suggest that only the locks are reasonable targets and I am just pointing out that this not been the case in the last 2 years.

80% of the ball will go to Matfield and Vermeulen. The others are usually used to mix it up.
 
T

Train Without a Station

Guest
I think you are saying Bissie is better than Strauss in the trenches. Everyone would agree. All I think we are saying is Strauss is very good at it too but offers something different.

All I am saying is that Vermeulen has been a meat and potatoes target for the Boks, more than just an extra option to mix things up.

You seemed to suggest that only the locks are reasonable targets and I am just pointing out that this not been the case in the last 2 years.

80% of the ball will go to Matfield and Vermeulen. The others are usually used to mix it up.

I'm just saying there's no such thing as a free lunch. If a player is better at something than his replacement, they are likely better suited to that aspect and likely not as good at another aspect.

Locks aren't the only reasonable targets, but as a 3rd choice option I'm confident a 198cm and 113kg player who often plays lock has a slight edge over a 193cm 116kg number 8. Duane is very strong in contact. Generally players who are give up a little in the line out as they require a different physical make up to excel. I agree he is a great line out target, but I think somebody physically better suited who is also a great target is likely to be a touch better.
 

dabiged

Stan Wickham (3)
Perth - Saturday 6 September

showers.png

Min 14
Max 23
Showers.
Perth area

Partly cloudy. Very high chance of showers. Gusty winds. Winds northerly 20 to 30 km/h turning west to northwesterly 25 to 40 km/h during the afternoon.

Same as last year :(
 

Sidbarret

Fred Wood (13)
Yeah the weather doesn't look great. It'll be a pretty dour struggle I think.


I think the weather may actually suite the wallabies more than South Africa. I think the their handling is slightly better and I can't see how we are going to bring the wings into play, where I think we enjoy a distinct pace advantage. Also it might cause South Africa to kick more which is likely to bring Folau into the game more.

I would think that South Africa will have an advantage in the scrum and maul, but without Alberts we lack a heavy runner to get momentum
 

The_Brown_Hornet

John Eales (66)
I think the weather may actually suite the wallabies more than South Africa. I think the their handling is slightly better and I can't see how we are going to bring the wings into play, where I think we enjoy a distinct pace advantage. Also it might cause South Africa to kick more which is likely to bring Folau into the game more.

I would think that South Africa will have an advantage in the scrum and maul, but without Alberts we lack a heavy runner to get momentum



Fair points. I was at Subi last year when we played the Argies and it was one of the most turgid contests I've ever had the misfortune to watch. I'm just hoping it won't be the same this year!

I'd like to see us still attack, but play a slightly narrower game so as not to open up the possibility unnecessarily of a break away try. I feel the Boks will try and rush up to close down the space, which increases the chances of that kind of turnover. We'll need to be switched on and accurate in everything we do. Disciplined too.
 

Wilson

Phil Kearns (64)
Saia may be out with the birth of his first child:

http://www.news.com.au/sport/rugby/...ting-first-child/story-fnjbb2pz-1227046654608

Which means Man-rea could well be the reserve hooker on Saturday night.
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
So, Josh Mann-Rea has joined camp Wallaby after Tessman became the latest victim of the hooker curse............
 

Mr Pilfer

Alex Ross (28)
Wow this is becoming a ioke, what is that now:

1. Moore out
2. TPN out
3. Charles out
4. Hanson in
5. Latu out
6. Fainga'a out
7. Tessman out
8. Mann-Rea in

They might need to get Foley, Kearns or Cannon to sit on the bench soon
 

Slim 293

Stirling Mortlock (74)
Siliva probably would've factored in above a couple of those guys but has been injured for half the year...........

We're now just an injury or two away from Luke Holmes........... :eek:
 

ChargerWA

Mark Loane (55)
Fair points. I was at Subi last year when we played the Argies and it was one of the most turgid contests I've ever had the misfortune to watch. I'm just hoping it won't be the same this year!
The last two games I have taken non rugby people to with the intent to convert them were the Argies last year and the Force v Bulls in the wet this year. Needless to say, my conversion rate is slightly lower than the Latter Day Saints at this point.
 

Joe Blow

John Hipwell (52)
Lucky that is 6 injuries to the same position rather than 6 of your 1st choice players..

Speight
Cooper
Genia
Pocock
Moore

Speight is a bit of a stretch but add TPN as our bench hooker and we are almost there. Tomane? Probably not but might start ahead of Horne.
 

Ulrich

Nev Cottrell (35)
I'd like to interject some thoughts of my own.

Marcel Coetzee has been playing exceptionally well and I'm glad we have someone like him coming in; however I think against Australia we would prefer a guy like Willem Alberts which may go contrary to what you'd think is required against a team coached by a man that likes to move the opposition pack around. At least this is how I observed the Reds playing during 2011.

Granted, when we played Australia last year they were not a settled team, but I believe Alberts' physical presence makes a difference against a team renowned for their cunning tactics and ability in the back division rather than physical prowess. Having said that, I have seen numerous occasions where we got off second best in the physical department against the Wallabies, so I'm taking nothing away from their (your) ability to produce in this department.

I have the match from Brisbane 2013 and there's a moment when the Wallabies are on attack and Francois Louw and Bismarck du Plessis simultaneously secure the ball at the breakdown. Willem Alberts is clearly heard on the microphone saying "Great fucking work boys!" which ultimately results in the ref warning Jean de Villiers that his team is being too vocal both to him and amongst themselves.

This is the kind of thing that opposition teams don't like I imagine and I base this on my experience as a lightweight schoolboy winger always taking the flack from the big boys opposition teams would deliberately send my way. It's all good tackling them (which is coincidentally the only real skill I had on the pitch) but it gets tiring after a while and the chirping douses your spirit as you continue receiving bludgeoning bricks sent your way.

My second bit of thought relates to Bismarck du Plessis being benched for Strauss in this game. Enough has been said about the merits of both not only on previous occasions but also in this thread. Yet, for this specific game I think it is a good move simply because I personally think Bismarck is a bit tired.

Thirdly, while I understand many people make the statement that your tight head is the first name on your team sheet and how experience, particularly to front row players is vital, I for one don't care much for Jannie playing at this stage. However; I don't think he is done with or anything like that naturally coming from doomsayers. I simply think we really need to bite the bullet and stick with an alternative tight head for a few consecutive games.

At the moment we have Frans Malherbe, Lourens Adriaanse and the guy from the Bulls all with less than 5 caps each and mostly off the bench as well. Giving a young guy 5-10 games this season will set us up nicely in the event we require someone other than Jannie next year and it also allows the incumbent some seriously needed rest. It may seem risky but perhaps an inexperienced prop is no worse than a severely overplayed one.

Fourth: What is going through Handre Pollard's mind at the moment? I have always respected Lambie's abilities, though it must be really depressing for the young chap to drop out of the 23 altogether - especially considering he is also a centre option which is a department we lack in at present.

It has been quite a while since such a significant amount of changes was made to a Bok 23. Probably not since Heyneke's first season in charge did this happen when he was still testing combinations and players' abilities.

So apart from the flailing scrum and general forward effort around the breakdown we're also creating unnecessary doubt in the minds of other (young) players coming through.

I guess Heyneke knows what he is doing and I hope him being a sports psychologist helps mitigate what could well turn out to be a catastrophic season if this ends up being a bad loss.

It's not unlikely considering we're not the only ones with our backs against the wall. The All Blacks did us a great disservice with their ruthless demolition of a team clearly having a once-off off night.

The last part in particular is the difference between the two teams at the moment. The Springboks having been so consistent last season have had a series of indifferent games this year:

  • Poor scrum against the World XV first outing.
  • Rectified to a decent degree first game against Wales.
  • Terrible game with our 2nd test against Wales - a game anyone would agree we deserved to lose.
  • Much better game against a severely depleted and tired Scottish side which may very well have given us a false sense of security.
  • Shitty game in shitty weather, albeit weather that traditionally suits us more than Aus or even NZ I'd venture and probably more in line with what could be expected 2015, against Arg. Seen as a mishap.
  • Even worse performance with the forwards taking a real pounding again in Argentina. Now the doubts are firmly in the minds of all concerned.

Australia on the other hand have had:

  • Great game against France, very good victory that only affirmed their upward trend from the EOYT of 2013.
  • Clinically dealt with a predictably fired up French outfit second time around, playing a game not traditionally associated with Wallaby rugby and still beating a very game French side.
  • Put away any doubts as to their superiority over the French in the 3rd game.
  • Drew against the World's #1 side playing for history, albeit in bad weather - which illustrates this is no weakness of the Wallabies, if anything it appears to have become something they have embraced.
  • Experienced a once-off demolition at the hands of a team with 1 loss in 39 games. Now surely fired up to rectify this mishap.
 
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