Australia v Scotland, 3:00pm 17 June Sydney Football Stadium

[dru]

On the whole I am disappointed with Cheika, and yet there are things I really like.

This would be one.

 

[cyclopath]

Yep.
In reality the problem we have now is a manifestation of the things we neglected in the early naughties.
But when you add the austerity - and a story on 7 news tonight fronted by 2 blues president concerning declining numbers because of cost - it's hard to see the bottom of the cycle.
If we had some reserves we could spend them on the future but it's hand to mouth.
Very concerning.
We need a benefactor or world rugby or nz to bail us out.

Hard to see why any would.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Hard to see why any would.

I know.

 

[wamberal]

Much easier to find faults than remedies..

Errr. Yes. But we are talking about the best in the sport in this country. If they have faults, either fix their faults, or find better options without as many faults.


Change the game plan if we have to. But how on earth can we beat Outer Mongolia if we persist in picking players who just cannot execute the basic under 14 skills set?

 

[wamberal]

Hard to see why any would.

Because we are worth a lot to the World Game, that's why the World Body should be concerned about our plight.


BTW, all the talk about how popular the game is everywhere in the world except Australia proving that there is nothing that can be improved, ignores the point that Australia is actually a pretty good test market for the game. We have two major competitors who are far more popular, and are both, to varying degrees, also contact sports.


This is a wonderful laboratory for trying things, or it should be if the powers that be had a single brain between them.


We have had rule dispensations in the past, we were the main sponsors of the Stellenbosch Project, we had done a lot of experimentation with the rules.


If we are serious about the game making inroads into the PRC, the World body would do well to look seriously at the situation in Australia, and maybe think about using us a test case for further rule changes.

 

[cyclopath]

Because we are worth a lot to the World Game, that's why the World Body should be concerned about our plight.


BTW, all the talk about how popular the game is everywhere in the world except Australia proving that there is nothing that can be improved, ignores the point that Australia is actually a pretty good test market for the game. We have two major competitors who are far more popular, and are both, to varying degrees, also contact sports.


This is a wonderful laboratory for trying things, or it should be if the powers that be had a single brain between them.


We have had rule dispensations in the past, we were the main sponsors of the Stellenbosch Project, we had done a lot of experimentation with the rules.


If we are serious about the game making inroads into the PRC, the World body would do well to look seriously at the situation in Australia, and maybe think about using us a test case for further rule changes.

Don't forget World Rugby is just a massive version of what we have here, albeit better run and with an assured financial base, with most of its stakeholders probably quite happy with how things are going, and vested interests of their own. I can't see them throwing piles of money at us, and they're not going to assume control directly. Despite what some people say. I'd be happy to be wrong, but I can't see it.
As for the perennial "change the laws" cry because Australia is fucked and it might grab the attention of China, not likely. Why would World Rugby want to change the laws?

 

[Slim 293]

The fucking laws again.........?

That is all I will ever say on this topic. You can all live in dreamworld, I wish you all the best of luck.

 

[TOCC]

yeah the rules are the issue... they don't allow players to get points for knocking on, missing tackles and shit kicks.

 

[Joe Blow]

For all the ups and downs and pros and cos yadda yadda, I am realllllllly getting tired of Cheikas performance comments always being related to effort and mentality. It's all about, be more physical, be more urgent, try harder, more effort, more intent - It's all about the mind set of the players EVERY time. Sure it has to be sometimes, but for fucks sake.it can't be the problem EVERY time. Mick B came in and straight away said - Australian rugby isn't skilled enough - Cheika says we gotta try harder. Kafe points out regular tactical flaws - Cheika says nah just gotta try harder for longer.

Are we a bit light in contact because we have an undersized, under experienced LHP, in conjunction with a lightweight lock and a debutant lightweight flanker? No.it's because they aren't being physical enough.

Are they struggling to be dominate in the collisions because the first time we had a physical team was when Timani, Coleman and Arnold all started, but not anymore because we've gone back to lightweight workrate skewed too far over dominance and thereore we can't get over the advantage line and can't keep the opposition behind theirs?.no.it's because they havn't got ENOUGH work rate

It's not because our best halfback hasn't been playing here therefore the combinations are off, and that our Attack Coach was surprised 2 days before a game when Cheika randomly decided to put a player that HE had purely training at 15, run on at 12. It's because there isn't enough urgency.

It's not because a test cap was given to the most undeserving player in super rugby (Nabuli) who at BEST is 7th or 8th wing. a player who admitted he only has just started to figure out where he needs to run and stand in rugby, it's because we lacked urgency.

It's not that the Defence Coach has employed the same patterns in the Wallabies that he has failed with at the Tahs so they are the WORST defensive nsw team in super history, flaws which have been time and time again pointed out by the commentary team.no.they just have to try harder.

It's not because our attack revolves around 1 player and a rolling maul, the signature move of a team our Backs Coach is purely responsible for.it's because of a lack of urgency.

It's not because we have a clear inbalance in our backrow, with the mongrel title going to a 20 yr old beanstalk who for all his best intentions and workrate, is having very little physical influence on the game, or that our enforcer is actually a lineout specialist and needs a bash brother, or that our no.8 and no.7 THRIVE in open games and scoring tries, and the lack of a Muscle man or breakdown man is glaringly obvious.No.it's because there isn't enough workrate..or physical dominance.even though they rarely emerge at top levels within the same body.

Nothing to do with coaching, tactics or strategy, it's purely because the players aren't trying hard enough for long enough, therefore the flawless coaching, tactics strategy won't work.

It is a bad look when the coach is publicly calling out his players and does not admit fault. Surely a sign that the Wallabies are on a slippery slope and Cheika does not know what to do about.

All good points mate.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

For all the ups and downs and pros and cos yadda yadda, I am realllllllly getting tired of Cheikas performance comments always being related to effort and mentality. It's all about, be more physical, be more urgent, try harder, more effort, more intent - It's all about the mind set of the players EVERY time. Sure it has to be sometimes, but for fucks sake.it can't be the problem EVERY time. Mick B came in and straight away said - Australian rugby isn't skilled enough - Cheika says we gotta try harder. Kafe points out regular tactical flaws - Cheika says nah just gotta try harder for longer.

Are we a bit light in contact because we have an undersized, under experienced LHP, in conjunction with a lightweight lock and a debutant lightweight flanker? No.it's because they aren't being physical enough.

Are they struggling to be dominate in the collisions because the first time we had a physical team was when Timani, Coleman and Arnold all started, but not anymore because we've gone back to lightweight workrate skewed too far over dominance and thereore we can't get over the advantage line and can't keep the opposition behind theirs?.no.it's because they havn't got ENOUGH work rate

It's not because our best halfback hasn't been playing here therefore the combinations are off, and that our Attack Coach was surprised 2 days before a game when Cheika randomly decided to put a player that HE had purely training at 15, run on at 12. It's because there isn't enough urgency.

It's not because a test cap was given to the most undeserving player in super rugby (Nabuli) who at BEST is 7th or 8th wing. a player who admitted he only has just started to figure out where he needs to run and stand in rugby, it's because we lacked urgency.

It's not that the Defence Coach has employed the same patterns in the Wallabies that he has failed with at the Tahs so they are the WORST defensive nsw team in super history, flaws which have been time and time again pointed out by the commentary team.no.they just have to try harder.

It's not because our attack revolves around 1 player and a rolling maul, the signature move of a team our Backs Coach is purely responsible for.it's because of a lack of urgency.

It's not because we have a clear inbalance in our backrow, with the mongrel title going to a 20 yr old beanstalk who for all his best intentions and workrate, is having very little physical influence on the game, or that our enforcer is actually a lineout specialist and needs a bash brother, or that our no.8 and no.7 THRIVE in open games and scoring tries, and the lack of a Muscle man or breakdown man is glaringly obvious.No.it's because there isn't enough workrate..or physical dominance.even though they rarely emerge at top levels within the same body.

Nothing to do with coaching, tactics or strategy, it's purely because the players aren't trying hard enough for long enough, therefore the flawless coaching, tactics strategy won't work.

Well that's just about summed the whole thing up.
What now?

 

[Brumby Runner]

I understand your points made, but I think the points a coach makes in the review session on Monday post-analysis would be very different to the points freshly post-match in a press conference.

There's a different audience (fans V athletes/staff) and a different amount of information available (making sense of something you've just watched live V something you've watched a number of times and have data for).

Even the stuff a coach is saying publicly on a Monday would differ from what he says behind closed doors. Fans don't want to hear sound bites about how the forwards weren't screening right on exits and stuff like that, they just want a bunch of rah-rah passion and hopefully some results come Saturday.

In summary, nobody cares how the sausage is made as long as it tastes good.

Amirite, I think you are way wide of the mark with this post.

A huge number of posts made on this site immediately after each test match, whether winning or losing, go straight to the core of what went wrong, or right in a small minority of cases, and don't need the benefit of time for reflection or multiple video replays. And that is from the many fans on this site - not from the Wallabies' head coach. He, Cheika, is becoming just as adept at spin as his masters at the ARU.

I know that I for one, and I'm bloody sure that the majority of posters here, would much prefer the coach to really tell it like it is after the match and not put up ridiculous smokescreens, but I suppose if he has any inkling at all that most of the fault probably lies at his own feet then he might be reluctant to do so. ATM he is not being held accountable for the sub-standard efforts being put out by his team, and to all appearances he is not prepared to stand up and take his lions' share of responsibility.

Might have to consider changing my nickname to Amiwrongoramiwrong?

 

[formerflanker]

I meant to ask, was hodge wearing sneakers? I lost count of the amount of times he fell over.

Are you counting the times he dived to catch poor passes?

 

[Quick Hands]

For every problem identified the alternative is either no better or an unknown.
There is no short term fix.

Although in terms of kicking, there is a better alternative - Reece Hodge who is far better at either place kicking and punt kicking than Foley. There was a time when such skills would ensure a place in the team for someone for obvious reasons. Hodge should have started at 13 on Saturday and taken the kicking responsibilities.

 

[The_Brown_Hornet]

On the whole I am disappointed with Cheika, and yet there are things I really like.

This would be one.

Full marks to Cheik for confronting this head on. I can't believe he called this bloke and discussed it with him! I actually really respect that, even though the post may not have been entirely serious. I also applaud the fact that he showed it to the players. Sometimes a bit of a tune up regarding perceptions of your attitude is required, but preferably delivered privately.

The man frustrates me at times but I've never believed that he didn't care hugely about how the Wallabies represent the Australian rugby public. If he could just apply those undoubted coaching skills to coming up with a more flexible game plan and get inside the players heads to get them to execute it, we'd be going a lot better.

As BH said, had we been more circumspect with our option taking and executed our skills better we win that game. It still would have been tight, but we're a better side than was shown on the weekend.

 

[Joe Blow]

I put myself through the misery of watching the game again last night. It was a very exciting seesawing battle, as they have all been with the Scots recently.
Their defense was excellent. I mean really good but they were also way offside for a good portion of the first half. If they can get away with it then good luck to them.
There was a certain amount of bad luck in those two tries but also very poor option taking by Genia and TPN. It was also bad luck that Hodge took DHP out of the defense accidentally in the run up to the last Scottish try.
With a better bounce of the ball it could easily have been a 15 point win for us, or more if we had squeezed another try or two.
If my mother was a man she would be my father......
I reckon Cheika is a stubborn sort of bloke which makes him very determined and dedicated. His systems do not appear to be working and he may need to look at some changes in direction with his coaching and also in his specialist coaches, particularly defense and taking on a specialist forwards coach. I'm sure these steps would be seen as very positive.
It's not the end of the world losing to a very efficient Scottish team but there are stiffer challenges ahead and it is difficult at the moment to see where the necessary improvements in order to be competitive are going to come from.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Although in terms of kicking, there is a better alternative - Reece Hodge who is far better at either place kicking and punt kicking than Foley. There was a time when such skills would ensure a place in the team for someone for obvious reasons. Hodge should have started at 13 on Saturday and taken the kicking responsibilities.

Hodge got lost at 13 with the fuck up with DHP which, imo, was the game's turning point.

 

[amirite]

Amirite, I think you are way wide of the mark with this post.

A huge number of posts made on this site immediately after each test match, whether winning or losing, go straight to the core of what went wrong, or right in a small minority of cases, and don't need the benefit of time for reflection or multiple video replays. And that is from the many fans on this site - not from the Wallabies' head coach. He, Cheika, is becoming just as adept at spin as his masters at the ARU.

I know that I for one, and I'm bloody sure that the majority of posters here, would much prefer the coach to really tell it like it is after the match and not put up ridiculous smokescreens, but I suppose if he has any inkling at all that most of the fault probably lies at his own feet then he might be reluctant to do so. ATM he is not being held accountable for the sub-standard efforts being put out by his team, and to all appearances he is not prepared to stand up and take his lions' share of responsibility.

Might have to consider changing my nickname to Amiwrongoramiwrong?

I don't think we disagree, you just are confusing a G&G fan for an average Australian rugby fan.

The average Australian rugby fan played in school, maybe played 1 year of subbies afterwards but is no longer involved, watches test matches at the pub when convenient for their social life, and probably goes to 3-5 games a year. What does that fan expect/understand?

Also, like I said, the post game interview is short, you can't be too nuanced (the presser is longer obviously).

 

[Braveheart81]

Although in terms of kicking, there is a better alternative - Reece Hodge who is far better at either place kicking and punt kicking than Foley. There was a time when such skills would ensure a place in the team for someone for obvious reasons. Hodge should have started at 13 on Saturday and taken the kicking responsibilities.

He's not remotely better at place kicking.

Sure, he can kick it a massive distance but his consistency and accuracy is not good. He generally isn't the first choice kicker at the Rebels.

 

[Twoilms]

Although in terms of kicking, there is a better alternative - Reece Hodge who is far better at either place kicking and punt kicking than Foley. There was a time when such skills would ensure a place in the team for someone for obvious reasons. Hodge should have started at 13 on Saturday and taken the kicking responsibilities.

Being able to kick the ball further than any other human alive doesn't do you much good if you can't aim it. Hodge can't aim for shit.

 

[emuarse]

From watching this game against Scotland, I think I've finally clicked onto why we are so far behind the AB's.
Both the Wallabies & the AB's make their line breaks. Add to this the AB's (& not the Wallabies) ability to put in short grubber kicks from any of their inside backs.
THE BIG DIFFERENCE is that there are any number of AB players pursuing the ball carrier (or kicked ball) like their very lives depended upon getting to it. The Wallabies? "Someone else in the side can do the work, I just did my bit a minute ago"
That for me sums it up. Until the Wallabies change this aspect of their mentality, they are beaten from the moment the starting whistle blows.

Needless to say there are other aspects of the game where improvement is required, but that has to be NO1.