Australia v New Zealand - Sydney 16 Aug

[Brumbieman]

Just noticed the player ranking thingy.

How the hell is Fardy not just behind Hooper and Slipper? He was an absolute machine !

 

[KOB1987]

I think the major reasons for not winning last night were coach-related. Very much out of character for Link imo. But he put KB (Kurtley Beale) at 10 when he had no recent test form there as opposed to Foley who has been getting better with each game. He failed to use his bench effectively. These wre the major Wallabies-related causes of not winning. The major ABs-related cause was their impregnable defence. Both sides defended to the last man so to speak.

For next week, remember not so long ago there was a hoodoo about playing at the House of Pain. Who brought that ABs winning run to an end. The Wallabies as I recall. Another myth to be broken at Eden Park.

I was about to say this exact point..if there is something that cost us the game it was this.
We can cry about missed kicks at goal, kicks that weren't taken, ineligible players that would have scored a try till the cows come home..I hope the coach learnt from his own mistake because it was the biggest.

On to next week we may see forced changes in the 23 with the return of TPN for Hanson and Sio for Cowan..aside from that I think the only likely change is Phipps starting instead of White.

 

[Mr Doug]

I'm getting sick of reading statements like "we should be happy to draw with the All Blacks". Fact is we could have and should have won it.
Don't agree with Pfitzy, why think you can score a try in the last 3 minutes, when neither team could cross during the preceding 77 minutes! I place no value in "moral victories". We have moved on from the Deans' years.

I couldn't help making comparisons:
1. Every time Gordon Bray said "there's no fullback at home for the Wallabies", I thought how Quade Cooper sees that and drops back to cover. Beale didn't (or can't) do that.
2. Kept picturing what Chris Latham would do, when faced with Izzy's options. For starters, when he was given a pass at his feet, Latho wouldn't have fumbled it, he would have toed it into the clear, picked it up, and (most likely) scored!
Falou was very ordinary last night, (maybe it was a result of the clash of heads). When Foley came on, I would have moved Kurtley to #15, and taken Falou off!

Before next Saturday McKenzie and Hooper will need to have multiple viewings of the match, and observe a booze ban until Sunday, to help with their decision-making.

 

[Ruggo]

McCabe was on a hiding from nothing with that pass Charles should have drawn the man then passed or dummy and go. McCabe got a pass high he caught and got hammered by two defenders, no one would have scored from that setup.

Charles didn't quite commit Savea before giving the pass. In fairness to all, it is a split second thing in the moment and any form of hindsight doesn't do any justice. I give credit to Charles for the intent of using his outside man and executing an accurate pass in doing so.

Charles also had a good debut (against the best in the world might I add) and doesn't look out of place at this level.

 

[Sully]

Just noticed the player ranking thingy.

How the hell is Fardy not just behind Hooper and Slipper? He was an absolute machine !

How many penalties did Fardy give away?

 

[BDA]

How many penalties did Fardy give away?

Yeh I'd have to watch the game again to see how well Fardy played. All I remember is he gave away 2 penalties in the first 20 minutes

 

[troxler]

If I was told it was going to be a draw before the game, I would have taken it as I thought we would struggle in the wet. Most of the guys performed well imo.

Apart from Folau who had one of his worst games in gold and Carter who just looks weak in contact to me, he seemed to get brought down immediately or driven back with ball in hand.

 

[cyclopath]

Yeh I'd have to watch the game again to see how well Fardy played. All I remember is he gave away 2 penalties in the first 20 minutes

Watching my replay now - the second one for "barging in the lineout" was a bloody soft call from Peyper. Fardy, at worst, had a hand on the back of Kaino, didn't grab him, push him or pull him down, and in fact was barely even touching him. Bit harsh on Fardy. Although the Wallabies closed the gap too quickly I thought, so probably could have been a free kick.

 

[Gnostic]

I'm getting sick of reading statements like "we should be happy to draw with the All Blacks". Fact is we could have and should have won it.
Don't agree with Pfitz, why think you can score a try in the last 3 minutes, when neither team could cross during the preceding 77 minutes! I place no value in "moral victories". We have moved on from the Deans' years.

I couldn't help making comparisons:
1. Every time Gordon Bray said "there's no fullback at home for the Wallabies", I thought how Quade Cooper sees that and drops back to cover. Beale didn't (or can't) do that.
2. Kept picturing what Chris Latham would do, when faced with Izzy's options. For starters, when he was given a pass at his feet, Latho wouldn't have fumbled it, he would have toed it into the clear, picked it up, and (most likely) scored!
Falou was very ordinary last night, (maybe it was a result of the clash of heads). When Foley came on, I would have moved Kurtley to #15, and taken Falou off!

Before next Saturday McKenzie and Hooper will need to have multiple viewings of the match, and observe a booze ban until Sunday, to help with their decision-making.

As much as I liked Latham's play, he was not an assured player under the high ball. IMO the Wallabies lost the test in 2000 (the greatest test ever game - I hate that label BTW) because of Latham at 15. Folau is a better 15. As for the pass at the feet, WTF, why blame the receiver for that? To'omua never had the ball settled in his hands to make the pass from the start, it was poor from that point.

 

[Dan54]

The Lords of Darkness will be more upset with that result, because the conditions were to their liking, they had the best team on paper, their bench failed to make an impact, they were unable to sway the Referee as they usually manage, and their discipline let them down.

Hell HJ not a flash post from you!! Why the hell would the ABs like those conditions?? I am quite sure they wanted a dry track as much as as Wallabies, and as for swaying the refs comment.

 

[cyclopath]

Hell HJ not a flash post from you!! Why the hell would the ABs like those conditions?? I am quite sure they wanted a dry track as much as as Wallabies, and as for swaying the refs comment.

Yeah, I don't know about "swaying" the ref, but they have been, for some time, the best team at managing the refs, which is a compliment.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Speight is both ineligible and injured

mere technicalities

Adapting to the conditions on the night a simple swap between To'omua and Beale would have been a logical response.

Tomua was first receiver quite a bit

 

[BDA]

Hell HJ not a flash post from you!! Why the hell would the ABs like those conditions?? I am quite sure they wanted a dry track as much as as Wallabies, and as for swaying the refs comment.

I would say that usually the All Blacks prefer a dry track so they can play running rugby, but given that the wallabies are traditionally a poor wet weather team and the Kiwis are accustomed to the conditions,the conditions played to the Bleck's advantage slightly

 

[cyclopath]

I would say that usually the All Blacks prefer a dry track so they can play running rugby, but given that the wallabies are traditionally a poor wet weather team and the Kiwis are accustomed to the conditions,the conditions played the Bleck's advantage slightly

True. No doubt the wet "suits" the ABs as we seem to play so badly in it often, rather than them actually liking it.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Charles didn't quite commit Savea before giving the pass. In fairness to all, it is a split second thing in the moment and any form of hindsight doesn't do any justice. I give credit to Charles for the intent of using his outside man and executing an accurate pass in doing so.

Charles also had a good debut (against the best in the world might I add) and doesn't look out of place at this level.

Its a fair call and I for one would be whinging if he'd gone himself and not passed.
While it is a split second thing its a bit of an issue across the board: Wok Ryan used to call it pinning the defence by straightening slightly and committing the man - so its not just the draw and pass its the slight straighten that causes the man to half commit to you and then you pass. If he does not half commit you go.
We need to see more of it from everyone: even in the S15 final the Kiwis were letting us go slightly sideways knowing that they could cover it because no one inside the last man was ever going to be pinned in this way.

 

[Aussie D]

I thought our support play was poor all night - too shallow which meant the passes all night were behind the man so they had to slow to catch the pass rather than accelerate on to it. I am sure that Bob Dwyer will mention something similar in his article tomorrow. There was one phase where the Wallabies spread the ball from one side of the field to the other with every pass behind the man and not one player drew a defender before passing - the ABs stood back and waited and just tackled the winger and put pressure on at the breakdown. The story of the night for the wallabies.

 

[cyclopath]

I think the Crockett card was dubious. I do think he committed a penalty - that screen grab being shown here and elsewhere is at a 45 degree angle to the line of the last feet, and watching the more expansive view, Crockett was loitering just in front before he took off a tad early. Bad timing, but I don't think it was fair to call it cynical.
The bollocks about no warning being given (that I read somewhere) is just that, bollocks. If the ref thinks it's foul play / cynical, a card is appropriate. This notion of being warned stems from some refs in the past having a system of pre-warning-warning, pre-warning, warning, I'm serious warning, No I'm super-serious warning before doing anything.
I'm with @Inside Shoulder too - we absolutely should have taken the points then. I cannot accept it was a good call to scrum it.

 

[BDA]

just rewatched the game.

I'm really surprised that some people on this site have the knives out for our team after what was a decent performance. We certainly looked the more likely to win in the final ten minutes, but we were also 6 points behind at half time and trailed for most of the match. The conditions made it difficult for us to get much of an advantage out of the extra man in the final 10.

Yes the Wallabies probably butchered a few good try scoring opportunities in the last 20 minutes but the All Blacks also butchered a certain 5 points in the first 10 minutes.

The positives for me clearly outweigh the negatives. There is a really strong team building here, with plenty of depth.

A few other thoughts:-
- I thought Beale and Folau were pretty ordinary last night. They both did some good stuff, but also made a few errors. The conditions didn't help though and in all honesty I cant really say their opposite numbers were much better.
- Higgers and Skelton were really good off the bench. They give us real impact, something the All Blacks' bench lacked. I'd like to see them continue in that role going forward.
- I see some people criticising Link's use of the bench but I cant say I agree. MAYBE he should have brought a few guys on 4 or 5 minutes earlier but the wallabies actually brought the match back level before any of those changes were made. You can hardly say that reinforcements were needed in circumstance where we were gaining ascendancy.
-On the wings I thought Rob Horne was great. McCabe was okay but we probably need a pure finisher in his spot.
-I'm not sold on Cowan at test level. He really doesn't give us any impact off the bench and he was under pressure at scrum time.

Next week I'd probably go for the same 15 but I'd bring Sio and TPN onto the bench, provided they have recovered from their injuries. I'd consider moving Beale to the bench as i think is better in that impact role

 

[Mr Doug]

Gnostic, it's about thinking on your feet, and making a quick decision. In the bad (low) pass scenario, Izzy took the wrong option.
I'm a big fan of Falou, but he has still a lot to learn. Still 'green', and probably a much better dry-track performer.

 

[I like to watch]

I'm not so sure about the penalty.
By calling a scrum,he ensured a back rower had to come off immediately.
I was backing the AB's to infringe again before 1/2 time and they did.
Had KB (Kurtley Beale) kicked what was a relatively easy kick, he would have been roundly praised by many.