Australia v New Zealand - Sydney 16 Aug

[Pete King]

I'm getting sick of reading statements like "we should be happy to draw with the All Blacks". Fact is we could have and should have won it.
Don't agree with Pfitzy, why think you can score a try in the last 3 minutes, when neither team could cross during the preceding 77 minutes! I place no value in "moral victories". We have moved on from the Deans' years.

I couldn't help making comparisons:
1. Every time Gordon Bray said "there's no fullback at home for the Wallabies", I thought how Quade Cooper sees that and drops back to cover. Beale didn't (or can't) do that.
2. Kept picturing what Chris Latham would do, when faced with Izzy's options. For starters, when he was given a pass at his feet, Latho wouldn't have fumbled it, he would have toed it into the clear, picked it up, and (most likely) scored!
Falou was very ordinary last night, (maybe it was a result of the clash of heads). When Foley came on, I would have moved Kurtley to #15, and taken Falou off!

Before next Saturday McKenzie and Hooper will need to have multiple viewings of the match, and observe a booze ban until Sunday, to help with their decision-making.

hahaha equally sick of people with short memories thinking that quade would have made a difference to that game last night, now we have Latho scoring the hypothetical try of the century, biggest case of grass is always greener ive ever seen. Back to reality for fuck sake. We havent competed with the all blacks in the last 5 years we have a massive dig and come away with a draw and plenty to learn from.

 

[Gnostic]

I'm not so sure about the penalty.
By calling a scrum,he ensured a back rower had to come off immediately.
I was backing the AB's to infringe again before 1/2 time and they did.
Had KB (Kurtley Beale) kicked what was a relatively easy kick, he would have been roundly praised by many.

And when the backrower to leave is guaranteed to be Kaino it is a good move. I'd rank Kaino as the best 6 (not SA and France 6 which is 7 as you know) in world rugby right now and more important to the NZ backrow balance than either McCaw or Read.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

And when the backrower to leave is guaranteed to be Kaino it is a good move. I'd rank Kaino as the best 6 (not SA and France 6 which is 7 as you know) in world rugby right now and more important to the NZ backrow balance than either McCaw or Read.

Read seemed quiet last night - part of this week's problem

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic, it's about thinking on your feet, and making a quick decision. In the bad (low) pass scenario, Izzy took the wrong option.
I'm a big fan of Falou, but he has still a lot to learn. Still 'green', and probably a much better dry-track performer.

As I said in that match mentioned the "thinking on the feet" let the first high ball of the match (in the first minute) bounce gifting a try under the posts. It is just a single example.... but anywho blame the receiver for poor execution by the passer.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Gnostic, it's about thinking on your feet, and making a quick decision. In the bad (low) pass scenario, Izzy took the wrong option.
I'm a big fan of Falou, but he has still a lot to learn. Still 'green', and probably a much better dry-track performer.

you advocate a fly kick as the best option - even with 18 hours to think about it?
You'd get dropped from just about any team with a choice

 

[liquor box]

I hope they are producing justice for James Horwill armbands as we speak.

I thought Kev made plenty of bad decisions all season

 

[boyo]

The need for a warning before a YC is a myth.

 

[WTF?]

just rewatched the game.

- I thought Beale and Folau were pretty ordinary last night. They both did some good stuff, but also made a few errors. The conditions didn't help though and in all honesty I cant really say their opposite numbers were much better.
- Higgers and Skelton were really good off the bench. They give us real impact, something the All Blacks' bench lacked. I'd like to see them continue in that role going forward.
- I see some people criticising Link's use of the bench but I cant say I agree. MAYBE he should have brought a few guys on 4 or 5 minutes earlier but the wallabies actually brought the match back level before any of those changes were made. You can hardly say that reinforcements were needed in circumstance where we were gaining ascendancy.
-On the wings I thought Rob Horne was great.

Sorry for butchering your post, but I'm on an iPad.

I agree with your statement that neither B. Smith or Cruden set the world on fire. I actually thought Cruden was fairly invisible.

I thought Rob Horne would have been very close to MoTM. His defence was brutal, and offered some half breaks in attack.

I think we need to look at how we shut down some of the best players in the world, before criticising our own attack. I do think the bench was subbed on probably 5 minutes too late though.

 

[KOB1987]

hahaha equally sick of people with short memories thinking that quade would have made a difference to that game last night, now we have Latho scoring the hypothetical try of the century, biggest case of grass is always greener ive ever seen. Back to reality for fuck sake. We havent competed with the all blacks in the last 5 years we have a massive dig and come away with a draw and plenty to learn from.

I thought Speight scored it..or was that a different one?

 

[Braveheart81]

Just finished rewatching the game after watching it at the ground last night.

Our forwards really got stuck in and did well. Slipper and Kepu in particular were excellent and our backrow performed very well. After two early penalties, Fardy was great and Hooper got us over the advantage line all night. Palu was pretty good and certainly seemed to have more impact on the game than Read.

People have been heavy critical of Beale but I still think he was fine. He made a couple of mistakes but also made some good passes and we looked fairly threatening at times. White and To'omua both made a couple of mistakes as well. It's a reality for the players who touch the ball a lot in dismal conditions. Aside from the one miss, Beale's goal kicking was good.

Phipps passing was good when he came on and he lifted the tempo. In my view he's the player most pushing for a start next week if there are any unforced changes.

Rob Horne was excellent as many have said.

We butchered our two best opportunities of the night. The first one was Charles blowing the overlap by passing too early to McCabe. He had to take the ball to the line and we should have scored in the corner. Aside from that, Charles had a really good game. Well done to him.

The second missed opportunity was when Folau passed it over the head of Beale. We were a real shot to attack in that corner and Beale would have had space and forwards to run against with Folau coming through in support.

Hooper should have opted for shots at goal the two times we turned down a potential attempt in the first half.

We should have won that game but overall it was a pretty strong performance. The team is definitely on the rise and the improved consistency is great. Recent history would have suggested that we'd have really struggled in those conditions but we did well. Hopefully they can back it up next week and have a real crack at Eden Park.

 

[I like to watch]

C

I thought Speight scored it..or was that a different one?

C'mon keep up.
Speight would have scored in the cnr,If he was an Aussie & if he wasn't broken.
Latho would have scored when Izzy dropped it.
Tries gone begging all over the place!

 

[KOB1987]

I just watched the replay on ONE.

Someone mentioned earlier that Gordon Bray said all night that 'there's no-one home for the Wallabies' and blamed Beale for not being back there..he said it twice, both in the second half, and on both occasions it was a turnover ball in which Beale had just been used as the attacking weapon..bit harsh to expect him to get back there!!

All these people calling for Beale to be benched can take a breath I think..it wasn't his finest game I admit but it was difficult in those conditions and he didn't do anything at all in general positional play that could be too harshly criticised. I am a huge Foley fan but he had the opportunity of a lifetime to impress for the last 10 minutes when he didn't have an opposing fly half and had fresh legs..he failed to do anything impressive.

 

[Pete King]

Just finished rewatching the game after watching it at the ground last night.

Our forwards really got stuck in and did well. Slipper and Kepu in particular were excellent and our backrow performed very well. After two early penalties, Fardy was great and Hooper got us over the advantage line all night. Palu was pretty good and certainly seemed to have more impact on the game than Read.

People have been heavy critical of Beale but I still think he was fine. He made a couple of mistakes but also made some good passes and we looked fairly threatening at times. White and To'omua both made a couple of mistakes as well. It's a reality for the players who touch the ball a lot in dismal conditions. Aside from the one miss, Beale's goal kicking was good.

Phipps passing was good when he came on and he lifted the tempo. In my view he's the player most pushing for a start next week if there are any unforced changes.

Rob Horne was excellent as many have said.

We butchered our two best opportunities of the night. The first one was Charles blowing the overlap by passing too early to McCabe. He had to take the ball to the line and we should have scored in the corner. Aside from that, Charles had a really good game. Well done to him.

The second missed opportunity was when Folau passed it over the head of Beale. We were a real shot to attack in that corner and Beale would have had space and forwards to run against with Folau coming through in support.

Hooper should have opted for shots at goal the two times we turned down a potential attempt in the first half.

We should have won that game but overall it was a pretty strong performance. The team is definitely on the rise and the improved consistency is great. Recent history would have suggested that we'd have really struggled in those conditions but we did well. Hopefully they can back it up next week and have a real crack at Eden Park.

good analysis. Spot on, same 15 to start next week is our best chance of winning. Think eventually mcabe will make way for a out and out finisher. White and KB (Kurtley Beale) on notice. Maybe an earlier intro of subs dictated by the game.

 

[NFL]

I haven't seen the game again in the clear light of day, but in hindsight -

The opening game was much to important for experiments.
KB (Kurtley Beale) was an experiment that had no place except perhaps if Foley was injured.
I think it's safe to say that Foley would have at least been more settled in the role of 10 given the conditions and recent form.
I also think if KB (Kurtley Beale) had run-on after 60 minutes he would have had something to prove and been far more dangerous.

The Wallabies need to stop experimenting, it hasn't worked for years.
IMH (an perhaps not rugby educated) O, the real problem the Wallabies face is a team culture.
Like the All Blacks we have a collection of very talented players, but they always seem to bring more commitment to the game.
You can almost smell the pride they have in the jumper where some of our guys look like they're just passing time till they get a better offer.

I wonder what NZ rugby's response to a player like KB (Kurtley Beale) thinking of changing codes would be ?
Bye bye, enjoy the obscurity.

I feel like there's enough depth there now not to put up with all this code switching BS and contract negotiations from the managers.
FFS, the ads have come down to man-make-up - the TEAM needs to spend more time at the top of world rugby before these guys can start to get thingy about the money.

Team first - Khoder Nasser second.

 

[Mr Doug]

I sense there are a few on board here who have never seen, or have conveniently forgotten, Latho's heroics over the years. Makes them the poorer for it.

 

[It is what it is]

All I thought was Speight would have scored

Yes agree, but it shouldn't have even got to the winger - if Charles drops his shoulder and drives forward he scores himself. Not knocking Charles, these are split second decisions and he played well otherwise.

 

[Braveheart81]

I sense there are a few on board here who have never seen, or have conveniently forgotten, Latho's heroics over the years. Makes them the poorer for it.

Your comment about a player getting a pass thrown at their feet in wet conditions and it being their fault was completely ridiculous.

If Folau tries to kick that and misses or kicks it straight into the hands of an All Black it could have been disastrous.

It has nothing to do whether or not people have watched Latham play. I'd say most people on the forum have.

 

[Braveheart81]

Interesting how perceptions can be different.

Iain Payten and Jamie Pandaram's player ratings.

Slipper 8
Charles 7
Kepu 6.5
Simmons 7
Carter 7
Fardy 6
Hooper 8
Palu 6
White 6
Beale 7
Horne 6.5
To'omua 6.5
AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) 6.5
McCabe 6
Folau 7

 

[Usedup]

What fool decided that Beale should be a Wallaby, if he has entertained the thought of going to league let him go. We need players who put the team first.
Wish league would make Phipps an offer he could not refuse

 

[Inside Shoulder]

What fool decided that Beale should be a Wallaby, if he has entertained the thought of going to league let him go. We need players who put the team first.
Wish league would make Phipps an offer he could not refuse

Im no fan but that is a huge debut

Interesting how perceptions can be different.

Isnt it?
Simmons and Carter were both disappointing their different ways - 7 suggests a strong contribution.
Maybe they counted the warm up?